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  1. #141
    Community Member Singular's Avatar
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    Default More testing on Glass Cannon

    I decided to swap my lightning spell lines for fire, to see what would happen to the damage output of the Glass Cannon. So that puts me at 7/6/6 force and 7/2/2 fire - it about doubled my damaged output. Now I get between 300-1600 damage per mob, depending on how they save. Evasion can make that number a 0.

    So the force line is doing 150-800, with the fire line comparable, but perhaps a bit less (they seem close enough to equal that I haven't noticed much difference).

    Otherwise, with the rune arm on, I have 225 kinetic and 195 fire.

  2. #142
    Community Member Nodoze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Singular View Post
    I decided to swap my lightning spell lines for fire, to see what would happen to the damage output of the Glass Cannon. So that puts me at 7/6/6 force and 7/2/2 fire - it about doubled my damaged output. Now I get between 300-1600 damage per mob, depending on how they save. Evasion can make that number a 0.

    So the force line is doing 150-800, with the fire line comparable, but perhaps a bit less (they seem close enough to equal that I haven't noticed much difference).

    Otherwise, with the rune arm on, I have 225 kinetic and 195 fire.
    Sorry I have been real busy and not able to keep up with the forums. Did you switch to make the GC your main rune arm or are you doing it only situation-ally? I wonder how this compares to the acid arms with the fire line added (and maybe twisting in fire based energy burst).

  3. #143
    Community Member Singular's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nodoze View Post
    Sorry I have been real busy and not able to keep up with the forums. Did you switch to make the GC your main rune arm or are you doing it only situation-ally? I wonder how this compares to the acid arms with the fire line added (and maybe twisting in fire based energy burst).
    I just thought I'd play around with it and take Draconic energy burst. It's unsuitable for EE content, but it works well enough in EN and ok in EH. I prefer to do max individual damage, though, so I'll be respecking back to electricity (for primal scream and other sonic lines in other EDs) when I get around to it. The energy burst is nice, though, and does around the same damage as primal scream for me - up to 2000. It would likely do more if I'd put in the proper lore items

  4. #144
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Yay, I'm back! Wasn't sure if I was ever going to be able to update this build again or not.

    I'm almost capped on my final destiny and already have max fate points. I will be redoing the epic destiny section and will provide several options along with their twists. There are a few that I swap to based on the quest and my role in it. I find myself rarely using Shadowdancer. Mostly I am in Fury of the Wild, which puts out some serious dps. I almost always have energy burst acid and boulder toss twisted in. Credit to Singular for pointing out the value of boulder toss. For the third twist (and second if I'm in FotW and don't need to twist boulder toss) I will generally switch between fey form, extra action boost, and brace for impact depending on the quest.

    I'll change the OP with this info in the next few days when I get more time. I'm glad that I can actually update the build.
    Totally Bass Ackwards ~ int based/heavy armored pure tempest<>The Count of Monte Cristo ~ dps/CC/survivability focused pure swashbuckler<>Santa's Little Slayer ~ dragonmarked elf centered kensai<>Hassan's Assassin ~ 76 DC/dps/survivability focused human assassin<>Dubbell O'Seven ~ casting/ranged WF artificer

  5. #145
    Community Member Singular's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CThruTheEgo View Post
    Yay, I'm back! Wasn't sure if I was ever going to be able to update this build again or not.

    I'm almost capped on my final destiny and already have max fate points. I will be redoing the epic destiny section and will provide several options along with their twists. There are a few that I swap to based on the quest and my role in it. I find myself rarely using Shadowdancer. Mostly I am in Fury of the Wild, which puts out some serious dps. I almost always have energy burst acid and boulder toss twisted in. Credit to Singular for pointing out the value of boulder toss. For the third twist (and second if I'm in FotW and don't need to twist boulder toss) I will generally switch between fey form, extra action boost, and brace for impact depending on the quest.

    I'll change the OP with this info in the next few days when I get more time. I'm glad that I can actually update the build.
    Welcome back! It seems like few people are posting anymore (probably b/c of the forum changes and mishaps).

    Yeah, Fury w/Needle, seeker items (+15 if you can, though I only have +10), the Visor (+5), and Planar Conflux of Prowess pumps out massive damage. The highest I've seen yet was two 2500+ strikes from an adrenaline. That's potentially 7500+ damage on a max crit burst (more realistic is 5000 max, and I can count on doing 1500-3000) + boulder toss (9500 or so was my highest to date) + rune arm, meaning that in under 5 seconds, you potentially can deal out around 20 000 damage (most likely going to be around 8000). This is why Fury Arties constantly steal aggro from the best hate tanks

    Important! Shade reported that if you retained Adrenaline (first tier of Fury, as a clicky; +300% dam) it would be additive with Adrenaline Overload (+400% dam). I'm not sure if that would be 700% or 1200% if they're multiplicative. I got rid of mine, thinking "wow, 400!" and now it's gone forever. So if you haven't removed it from your hot bar, don't.

    I know you're a big fan of the full acid line. I was going full force (for the boulder toss, BB - yes, I use them in EE - and tac/det, prismatic strike) + 7/4/4 in electric. That also adds to sonic, making primal scream about 2/3rds as good as energy burst. I wonder if you could work in both - that would give you a massive arsenal: Adrenaline Overload w/ EF, boulder toss before and after, Energy Bust during BT's downtime (+ vice versa), Primal Scream, repeat until baddie is mush. In fact, if that's possible, that would give arties massive sustained burst damage.

    B/c of Fury's huge xbow damage, I switched around my enhancements, dropping the Human con bonus and thus Racial Toughness 3, dropping electric to 7/1/1 and going full Human Versatility for the +25% damage to xbow. I always use it with EF, and Adrenaline Overload during. I put Artificer Damage Boost up, too. Combined with Archer's Focus, and the myriad Fury benefits, max Needle's crit damage. It's so overwhelming that it replaces all specialized DR breakers - it outcompetes my Fire-earth-fire Alchemical (the max damage alchemical), my Lit II against Harry, my +++ against undead, etc. Average, non-adrenaline crits from it range between 300-500. Only against mobs with fortification does any specialized xbow come out ahead.

  6. #146
    Community Member Zeronic's Avatar
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    Seems to me that with fury this build gives way more DPS then just shadowdancer. Tbh I think it is a bit of a shame since it will lose a bit of the origin of the build. Besides, I love evasion and sneak attack damage. And grinding that ring of the stalker + seal of the house avithoul is kinda useless then since you don't have any Dice on sneak attack ( which means that you only have 13 damage on a sneak attack). Dropping the acid line means less damage on the corruption of nature, so why would you use it then? Archaic device is nice, but I only use it for mobs that are resistant to acid. And even with the same enhancment list 7/1/1 it still does way less damage then the corruption.
    I also wonder why improved precise shot is taken. The stance might be handy, but most of the time I am in the archer stance that comes with the normal precise shot since with most bosses I am standing still and the added damage is nice.
    I am not an expert on building (certainly not!) but I rather have the survive ability then splashing everything and then grab all the aggro. Unless they die of course. Would love to see the build layout though singular. Because even after all this. I am still frigging curious.
    On a final note. I nearly completed the equipment list of this build ( forming the GS belt and making the cloak, farming the planar focus). Yet I wonder what would be some nice swap in additions equipment for this build. Since it still needs it third life I am wondering if a GS repeater would be nice for the early levels. Any suggestions? (Lit II ? Trap the soul? earthgrab/ Oozes?)
    Last edited by Zeronic; 05-29-2013 at 03:48 AM.
    Living in the Twilight, Under the Moon

  7. #147
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeronic View Post
    Seems to me that with fury this build gives way more DPS then just shadowdancer. Tbh I think it is a bit of a shame since it will lose a bit of the origin of the build. Besides, I love evasion and sneak attack damage.
    Shadowdancer still has its uses. If you're going for melee or ranged dps, Fury seems to be the top dps destiny. If you're going for survivability, I think shadowdancer is the optimal destiny. Keep in mind though, you get a lot more HP with Fury, so it provides a different kind of survivability than shadowdancer. Also, dps has been the best survival tactic for most of the history of ddo, and I think that is still true. The survivability of shadowdancer (evasion, shadow form, extra dodge) simply isn't necessary for EN and EH. It is useful for some EE content, but even then I still usually prefer Fury for the ridiculous dps. If I'm doing very trap heavy content on EE (like VoN5), I'll switch to shadowdancer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeronic View Post
    And grinding that ring of the stalker + seal of the house avithoul is kinda useless then since you don't have any Dice on sneak attack ( which means that you only have 13 damage on a sneak attack).
    This isn't a waste at all, it is a dps increase. Plenty of builds that have no natural sneak attack ability utilize sneak attack gear. Improved deception procs A LOT, which means you can still get that sneak attack damage quite often even when you're pulling agro. And it's really only the avithoul ring that is providing sneak attack since they don't stack. The stalker ring is for seeker6, manslayer, and two slots.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeronic View Post
    Dropping the acid line means less damage on the corruption of nature, so why would you use it then? Archaic device is nice, but I only use it for mobs that are resistant to acid. And even with the same enhancment list 7/1/1 it still does way less damage then the corruption.
    I wouldn't recommend dropping the acid line since it is useful for both Corruption and energy burst (the most powerful AoE dps in your arsenal). Singular was talking about taking the electric line to boost primal scream (a Fury ability), and possibly taking all three (force, acid, and electric). I had considered this as well. I finally got a +4 int tome which would allow me to drop int3 for 6 enhancement points. I could also drop improved UMD3 and 4 and corrosive spellcasting2. That would allow me to have 7/1/1 in force, acid, and electric. And Singular is right, that combination provides a lot of serious AoE options. But if forced to choose only two, I would definitely go with force and acid.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeronic View Post
    I also wonder why improved precise shot is taken. The stance might be handy, but most of the time I am in the archer stance that comes with the normal precise shot since with most bosses I am standing still and the added damage is nice.
    IPS is useful for trash. Even during most boss fights this is still handy since there is usually a lot of trash. Archer's focus is useful when you DON'T want to pull a lot of agro. If you're only dealing with one target, then yes archer's focus is better dps. But if you're dealing with anything more than a single target, then IPS is definitely better dps. IPS does full damage to all targets between you and your selected target. Archer's focus only adds a max of 30% damage to a single target.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeronic View Post
    I am not an expert on building (certainly not!) but I rather have the survive ability then splashing everything and then grab all the aggro. Unless they die of course.
    That's just the point, they do die fairly quickly. I run up on a group, hit energy burst (2-4k AoE), drop a blade barrier (0.5-1k persistent AoE), hit boulder toss (1-2k single target), then hit adrenaline overload (1-2k, sometimes multiple bolts from a single volley, multiple targets if using IPS), target one in back and start shooting while kiting through the blade barrier and keeping boulder toss and adrenaline overload on cooldown. I'll occasionally hit primal scream after blade barrier. Yeah, they die pretty quick.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeronic View Post
    On a final note. I nearly completed the equipment list of this build ( forming the GS belt and making the cloak, farming the planar focus). Yet I wonder what would be some nice swap in additions equipment for this build. Since it still needs it third life I am wondering if a GS repeater would be nice for the early levels. Any suggestions? (Lit II ? Trap the soul? earthgrab/ Oozes?)
    Lit2 is the highest dps greensteel, but triple positive is not far behind and is a lot cheaper. Triple positive is also very useful against undead. If you have the ingredients, I'd go for a Lit2. I used that as my primary repeater until I got Needle. If you don't have the ingredients, triple positive is still a very nice option and would also make a great primary repeater until Needle. Greensteel weapons trivialize heroic level content when you can first use them, so I personally would want one before TRing. I guess something else to consider is if you are going to be doing a lot of Necro farming, then the triple positive might be the better option.
    Totally Bass Ackwards ~ int based/heavy armored pure tempest<>The Count of Monte Cristo ~ dps/CC/survivability focused pure swashbuckler<>Santa's Little Slayer ~ dragonmarked elf centered kensai<>Hassan's Assassin ~ 76 DC/dps/survivability focused human assassin<>Dubbell O'Seven ~ casting/ranged WF artificer

  8. #148
    Community Member Zeronic's Avatar
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    Thanks for the feedback. A couple of replies on this though.
    First of all. Isn't it possible to combine them. Instead of twisting in all the evo bonuses you don't seem to need anymore you still go shadowdancer, but twist in the energy burst and Bouldertoss? This would still give you +6 int and evasion.
    It's a shame you cannot twist in adrenaline overload though. Although it only works on 1 attack right? So the next 2 arrows from your volley still do normal damage.
    My problem with fury is the loss of some stuff. You will lose 6 INT (although you gain 6 CON). You lose evasion, so why bother with insightfull reflexes then? Doesn't it hurt the spellcasting?
    If you main fury what do you take, and what are your twists besides Energy burst? Also, isn't it better to slot tensers transformation in a spell slot?
    Also, I assume that swapping gear for this setup ain't needed right? Everything from the list still applies (although the sneak attack kinda loses its shine, still 13 damage per hit extra ain't shabby.
    Last but not least, ain't an epic silver slinger just as good as a triple positive? I know that LitII is nice, but it becomes useless later on with needle and epic slinger amiright? Thats why I though any special weapons (soul trap, ooze) would be nice.
    Thanks for the info in improved precise. I think I will use it more often now. Other feedback etc is appreciated ^_^
    Edit: Since you kinda drop your CC spells, is the epic evo feat still worth it as well?
    Last edited by Zeronic; 05-31-2013 at 06:56 AM.
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  9. #149
    Community Member Loriac's Avatar
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    The key loss to an artificer in FotW is overwhelming force, which only triggers on melee attacks. At EE difficulty, this single ability allows trash to be killed without risking much incoming damage, as i. they can't fight back and ii. you get 30% extra damage as they're helpless (more if you have other complementary abilities).

    Its also worth bearing in mind that fury with manyshot gives you approximately double the damage of a repeater in fury (I don't recall ever seeing all 3 shots in a repeater volley get the adrenaline benefit, its usually 1 or 2, vs. 4 shots if manyshotting).

    These two things are what make a juggernaut type build overwhelmingly superior dps wise to a standard arty in FotW.

    One possibility for an FotW focused pure arty is to use bastard swords + runearm for trash (something like Nightmare from CitW) to access overwhelming force on adrenaline strikes, switching to repeater for fury.

    However, the key issue with FotW for a pure arty is that it synergises only with your melee/ranged dps. This makes your runearm less damaging (primarily from dc loss due to lower int / better twists than the +Evoc dc abilities) and your spells less likely to land. Once you decide to go down this route, the benefits of changing to a hybrid build like juggernaut start to become much more compelling. Pure artys will be even further hosed under the current enhancement alpha build, as the current level 20 capstone (use all items at CL20) effectively locks out tier 5 in battle engineer as far as I understand it (due to minimum ap requirements), which is where you get tier 3 overcharge and tactical mobility.

  10. #150
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loriac View Post
    The key loss to an artificer in FotW is overwhelming force, which only triggers on melee attacks. At EE difficulty, this single ability allows trash to be killed without risking much incoming damage, as i. they can't fight back and ii. you get 30% extra damage as they're helpless (more if you have other complementary abilities).

    Its also worth bearing in mind that fury with manyshot gives you approximately double the damage of a repeater in fury (I don't recall ever seeing all 3 shots in a repeater volley get the adrenaline benefit, its usually 1 or 2, vs. 4 shots if manyshotting).

    These two things are what make a juggernaut type build overwhelmingly superior dps wise to a standard arty in FotW.
    I haven't played a juggernaut so I can't comment on the comparison between jugg vs pure. Regardless of the loss of overwhelming force, Fury is still the highest dps destiny for a pure arti.

    Quote Originally Posted by Loriac View Post
    One possibility for an FotW focused pure arty is to use bastard swords + runearm for trash (something like Nightmare from CitW) to access overwhelming force on adrenaline strikes, switching to repeater for fury.
    This is an interesting possibility. I might give it a try.

    Quote Originally Posted by Loriac View Post
    However, the key issue with FotW for a pure arty is that it synergises only with your melee/ranged dps. This makes your runearm less damaging (primarily from dc loss due to lower int / better twists than the +Evoc dc abilities) and your spells less likely to land. Once you decide to go down this route, the benefits of changing to a hybrid build like juggernaut start to become much more compelling. Pure artys will be even further hosed under the current enhancement alpha build, as the current level 20 capstone (use all items at CL20) effectively locks out tier 5 in battle engineer as far as I understand it (due to minimum ap requirements), which is where you get tier 3 overcharge and tactical mobility.
    Being in Fury does lower your DCs, but the overall dps is still the highest compared to being in any other destiny. You might be right about the benefits of the juggernaut, but that's just not the kind of build I'm interested in.

    I can't really comment on the enhancements because I haven't really looked into them. Not to mention they are still subject to change, so build options are just speculation at this point. And the capstone is not all that spectacular any way. As I've said before, the reason to go pure is for the spell slots, not the capstone. I don't get as much use out of tactical detonation in Fury, but I still use reconstruct, blade barrier, and deadly weapons all the time. Three spell slots requires 19 artificer and a one level splash isn't going to do much.
    Totally Bass Ackwards ~ int based/heavy armored pure tempest<>The Count of Monte Cristo ~ dps/CC/survivability focused pure swashbuckler<>Santa's Little Slayer ~ dragonmarked elf centered kensai<>Hassan's Assassin ~ 76 DC/dps/survivability focused human assassin<>Dubbell O'Seven ~ casting/ranged WF artificer

  11. #151
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeronic View Post
    Thanks for the feedback. A couple of replies on this though.
    First of all. Isn't it possible to combine them. Instead of twisting in all the evo bonuses you don't seem to need anymore you still go shadowdancer, but twist in the energy burst and Bouldertoss? This would still give you +6 int and evasion.
    It's a shame you cannot twist in adrenaline overload though. Although it only works on 1 attack right? So the next 2 arrows from your volley still do normal damage.
    You could go shadowdancer and twist energy burst and boulder toss. But adrenaline overload, sense weakness, and unbridled fury are all pretty powerful. With fury eternal, adrenaline overload has a 33% chance to regenerate on a vorpal, and I'm am rarely without charges. Adrenaline overload can proc on all three bolts in a single volley, and it usually does on 1-2 of them for 1-2k each.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeronic View Post
    My problem with fury is the loss of some stuff. You will lose 6 INT (although you gain 6 CON). You lose evasion, so why bother with insightfull reflexes then? Doesn't it hurt the spellcasting?
    If you main fury what do you take, and what are your twists besides Energy burst? Also, isn't it better to slot tensers transformation in a spell slot?
    I don't take the 6 con. I take primal scream, tunnel vision, fast healing, 1 con (because it evens out the bonus from primal scream), acute instincts, damage reduction, sense weakness, fury eternal, and unbridled fury. You do lose several DCs, but I don't need to use the CC options (tactical detonation and prismatic strike) as much when in Fury. The combined damage from blade barrier, repeater, rune arm, boulder toss, and energy burst simply doesn't require the CC, and makes it well worth the sacrifice. You still gain quite a bit from insightful reflexes, you're really only 3 less than if you had the 6 int from shadowdancer.

    As far as twists, I always have energy burst and then switch between some combination of fey form, extra action boost, brace for impact, energy sheath electric, and regeneration cocoon based on the quest/raid I'll be doing.

    Also, I assume that swapping gear for this setup ain't needed right? Everything from the list still applies (although the sneak attack kinda loses its shine, still 13 damage per hit extra ain't shabby.
    Last but not least, ain't an epic silver slinger just as good as a triple positive? I know that LitII is nice, but it becomes useless later on with needle and epic slinger amiright? Thats why I though any special weapons (soul trap, ooze) would be nice.
    Thanks for the info in improved precise. I think I will use it more often now. Other feedback etc is appreciated ^_^
    Edit: Since you kinda drop your CC spells, is the epic evo feat still worth it as well?[/QUOTE]

    No gear swap needed. I'm not sure but I think a triple positive might be slightly better than an epic silver slinger. If you want a unique weapon I'd go with ooze, I hear those are pretty fun with ranged. And the only reason to make a GS weapon anymore is to be in godmode while TRing.

    You could drop epic evocation, but combat archery is still broke, so nothing else is really worth it imo. And the DCs do still apply to a lot of abilities, so I would say epic evocation is still the best option.
    Totally Bass Ackwards ~ int based/heavy armored pure tempest<>The Count of Monte Cristo ~ dps/CC/survivability focused pure swashbuckler<>Santa's Little Slayer ~ dragonmarked elf centered kensai<>Hassan's Assassin ~ 76 DC/dps/survivability focused human assassin<>Dubbell O'Seven ~ casting/ranged WF artificer

  12. #152
    Community Member Singular's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeronic View Post
    Seems to me that with fury this build gives way more DPS then just shadowdancer. Tbh I think it is a bit of a shame since it will lose a bit of the origin of the build. Besides, I love evasion and sneak attack damage. And grinding that ring of the stalker + seal of the house avithoul is kinda useless then since you don't have any Dice on sneak attack ( which means that you only have 13 damage on a sneak attack). Dropping the acid line means less damage on the corruption of nature, so why would you use it then? Archaic device is nice, but I only use it for mobs that are resistant to acid. And even with the same enhancment list 7/1/1 it still does way less damage then the corruption.
    Hey, thanks for the reply.

    Yeah, you don't get evasion - instead, you rely upon killing enemies asap, as Cthruego reports above.

    I don't personally find sneak attack damage all that engaging. It doesn't multiply with crits. So you're right, I only get 13 or so sneak attack damage.

    I don't use corruption of nature. I know lots of arties swear by it, but I like the way a full force line, 7/6/6, synergizes with the spells, force arms and boulder toss. That allows me to go 7/1/1 in electric (primal scream, and electric Energy Burst, if so desire) and max out Human Versatility, to get an additional 30% damage to my xbow (Needle) in bursts.

    I also wonder why improved precise shot is taken. The stance might be handy, but most of the time I am in the archer stance that comes with the normal precise shot since with most bosses I am standing still and the added damage is nice.
    Cthru explained this one well - I only add that I turn it off most of the time now and just go with Archer's Stance. First, I love that it's broken and works when you're moving

    Second, it allows you to concentrate damage on single targets, removing them quickly from being able to damage you. That's especially important in EE content where IPS simply doesn't remove the threats fast enough.

    However, in Heroic content and EN + EH, IPS is a must, or if you have a good DPS party in EE that is keeping the baddies off of you, where you can just add extra damage to multiple targets.

    I am not an expert on building (certainly not!) but I rather have the survive ability then splashing everything and then grab all the aggro. Unless they die of course. Would love to see the build layout though singular. Because even after all this. I am still frigging curious.
    Thanks

    No special build layout - Int maxed, 3X ranger past lives, 1X rogue, working on Sorc atm, gear designed to add damage (epic ring of the stalker, dream visor, planar focus of prowess, etc., with restored blue dragon armor that I'm thinking about changing to black, b/c I pulled the Halcion boots).

    On a final note. I nearly completed the equipment list of this build ( forming the GS belt and making the cloak, farming the planar focus). Yet I wonder what would be some nice swap in additions equipment for this build. Since it still needs it third life I am wondering if a GS repeater would be nice for the early levels. Any suggestions? (Lit II ? Trap the soul? earthgrab/ Oozes?)
    Woohoo, congrats!

    Yes, if you're TRing, you want GS xbows:

    Lit II for damage output (go with Good burst and not Holy, for versatility).
    Rad II if you like CC + sneak attack damage
    +++ if you hate undead. A +++ and Hand of the Tombs removes undead faster than any other combination/class.

    The Epic Silver Slinger adds some interesting benefits against undead - it's blunt and slows them down. However, the +++ disrupts them. So, in EH and EE content, it will add 100 damage fairly often, but if you're looking for debuffing the baddies, then the ESS is better than the +++. If you just want to add more damage and disrupt them when they get under 1000 hp, the +++ is better.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeronic View Post
    Thanks for the feedback. A couple of replies on this though.
    First of all. Isn't it possible to combine them. Instead of twisting in all the evo bonuses you don't seem to need anymore you still go shadowdancer, but twist in the energy burst and Bouldertoss? This would still give you +6 int and evasion.
    You'd lose out a ridiculous amount of damage output by limiting Needle so.

    As an artie, you just won't be able to reach the DCs for useful, consistent CC spell casting in EE content, even if you max your int through destinies and twist in Evocation DCs from Magister and Draconic, but you will succeed in reducing your damage output by 50%. Needle's crit range outside of Fury is around 500 max, but 1500-2500 in Fury.

    In EN and EH content, though, your spells will land frequently enough if you just twist in the Magister Evocation +3 DC power.

    I'm working on getting my 3 sorc lives and 1 wiz life to see how that changes the Endgame.

    It's a shame you cannot twist in adrenaline overload though. Although it only works on 1 attack right? So the next 2 arrows from your volley still do normal damage.
    I usually get 2 of the 3, sometimes 1 and rarely 3.

    It would be super nice to twist in Adrenaline!

    My problem with fury is the loss of some stuff. You will lose 6 INT (although you gain 6 CON). You lose evasion, so why bother with insightfull reflexes then? Doesn't it hurt the spellcasting?
    Insightful is still useful, I don't take the full 6 con (as Cthru reports above), spells are discussed above.

    You can, however, have several EDs maxed and switch them depending on quest and quest difficulty you're doing. Play around with it - try doing CC casting in EE content and let us know what you come up with.

    If you main fury what do you take, and what are your twists besides Energy burst? Also, isn't it better to slot tensers transformation in a spell slot?
    Never use it - why would it be useful? Needle provides +20 alacrity (that seems to cap at +15% anyways...) so I don't think the BAB increase would subsequently increase the rate of fire, but I could be wrong.

    RE: Loriac above:

    I exceed most Juggs in damage output, but the well built ones - I've only seen one - beat me, for sure. Fury works for them better. I'm still working on ways to compete with them. It may not be possible, but with the right gear set up for max xbow damage, the right past lives, twists and ED, it just might.

    I don't like playing toasters, though, and, as Cthru above responded, I have no interest in turning my main artie into a jugg. I mean, they're fine for other people, but I like my cute girls

  13. #153
    Community Member Ragnarnessaja's Avatar
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    Howdy.

    I'm coming back to DDO with a few friends and I don't really want to pick up my level 16 Wizard, so I would like to make an Artificer.

    I would like to know if this build is possible for a Human and what changes you (the OP) would make if you were to go that route. I realize I would sacrifice the benefit of a Warforged's Self Healing, but I plan to Scroll Heal myself (even though I know it's inferior to Quickened Reconstructs etc).

    I MAY be able to be convinced to roll a Warforged and run this build to the letter, but I tihnk that would only happen if a Human build was presented and the list of cons compared to WF was significant.

    So, I hope to hear from you sir and I also wanted to congratulate you on a very awesome build.

  14. #154
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ragnarnessaja View Post
    Howdy.

    I'm coming back to DDO with a few friends and I don't really want to pick up my level 16 Wizard, so I would like to make an Artificer.

    I would like to know if this build is possible for a Human and what changes you (the OP) would make if you were to go that route. I realize I would sacrifice the benefit of a Warforged's Self Healing, but I plan to Scroll Heal myself (even though I know it's inferior to Quickened Reconstructs etc).

    I MAY be able to be convinced to roll a Warforged and run this build to the letter, but I tihnk that would only happen if a Human build was presented and the list of cons compared to WF was significant.

    So, I hope to hear from you sir and I also wanted to congratulate you on a very awesome build.
    Glad you like the build Ragnarnessaja. At the bottom of the first post you'll see the Alternative Build Options section where you will find the pros/cons of the other races as well as a link to a great summary of the differences between WF and helf, which are really the two optimum races for an arti. WF has two significant advantages: quickened recons and more AP to spend on arti stuff. I don't know how the enhancement pass will affect this though, as I haven't looked into it a great deal, so this may change in a few weeks. Hope that helps.


    ----------------------------------------------------
    Also, updated the build to include other destiny options.
    Totally Bass Ackwards ~ int based/heavy armored pure tempest<>The Count of Monte Cristo ~ dps/CC/survivability focused pure swashbuckler<>Santa's Little Slayer ~ dragonmarked elf centered kensai<>Hassan's Assassin ~ 76 DC/dps/survivability focused human assassin<>Dubbell O'Seven ~ casting/ranged WF artificer

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    Quote Originally Posted by CThruTheEgo View Post
    WF has two significant advantages: quickened recons and more AP to spend on arti stuff.
    I have to ask you a question that has occurred to me every time I've read this: how can this be an ADVANTAGE? Worst case scenario the alternative race spends the AP on the exact same thing the WF spends his enhancements on. So the race alternative can only be the same or better.

  16. #156
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phillipsjr1 View Post
    I have to ask you a question that has occurred to me every time I've read this: how can this be an ADVANTAGE? Worst case scenario the alternative race spends the AP on the exact same thing the WF spends his enhancements on. So the race alternative can only be the same or better.
    If you're a non-WF race and spending your AP as a WF would, then you are not taking advantage of what the non-WF race has to offer (e.g. heal amp and damage boost for a helf) AND you're missing out on quickened recons. If you are building this way, then any non-WF has a definite disadvantage compared to WF. If you are actually building to optimize to a particular race, however, then whether it is better or worse really depends on your goals and priorities. If survivability and max overall dps are your priorities then WF has the advantage of both due to quickened recons and the ability to take more elemental lines (acid for rune arm and force for spells). In the first post you will find a link to a post by Loriac (EDIT: it's post #120) that sums up the advantages/disadvantages of various races. Keep in mind, however, that all of this may change in just few days due to the enhancement pass, but I really don't know how that will affect it.
    Last edited by CThruTheEgo; 08-10-2013 at 06:08 PM.
    Totally Bass Ackwards ~ int based/heavy armored pure tempest<>The Count of Monte Cristo ~ dps/CC/survivability focused pure swashbuckler<>Santa's Little Slayer ~ dragonmarked elf centered kensai<>Hassan's Assassin ~ 76 DC/dps/survivability focused human assassin<>Dubbell O'Seven ~ casting/ranged WF artificer

  17. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by CThruTheEgo View Post
    If you're a non-WF race and spending your AP as a WF would, then you are not taking advantage of what the non-WF race has to offer (e.g. heal amp and damage boost for a helf) AND you're missing out on quickened recons. If you are building this way, then any non-WF has a definite disadvantage compared to WF. If you are actually building to optimize to a particular race, however, then whether it is better or worse really depends on your goals and priorities. If survivability and max overall dps are your priorities then WF has the advantage of both due to quickened recons and the ability to take more elemental lines (acid for rune arm and force for spells). In the first post you will find a link to a post by Loriac (EDIT: it's post #120) that sums up the advantages/disadvantages of various races. Keep in mind, however, that all of this may change in just few days due to the enhancement pass, but I really don't know how that will affect it.
    I don't mean to be rude but that's a very silly statement. If the competing artificer enhancements that the warforged can take are better dps than what the Helf takes... then take them with the Helf. This means that the WF cannot be both better survivability and better dps than the Helf, who just does more damage with a rogue dilettante feat and then can take every single other enhancement the same as the WF. IF the Helf utility enhancements are sub-par: don't take them! It's just a vacuous statement to say the WF is better dps. It's not. Helf with rogue dilettante and exactly the same class traits as the WF will do superior damage. Admittedly not a lot, but you're just spreading misinformation.

  18. #158
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phillipsjr1 View Post
    I don't mean to be rude but that's a very silly statement. If the competing artificer enhancements that the warforged can take are better dps than what the Helf takes... then take them with the Helf. This means that the WF cannot be both better survivability and better dps than the Helf, who just does more damage with a rogue dilettante feat and then can take every single other enhancement the same as the WF. IF the Helf utility enhancements are sub-par: don't take them! It's just a vacuous statement to say the WF is better dps. It's not. Helf with rogue dilettante and exactly the same class traits as the WF will do superior damage. Admittedly not a lot, but you're just spreading misinformation.
    This is a pointless debate to begin with since the enhancement pass is coming in a few days and specific spell power lines won't even be an option.?*That being said, helf dps is more than just the rogue dil. Human versatility damage boost is pretty significant as well.?*If all your doing is taking rogue dil, then you're basically trading quickened recons for 3d6 sneak attack. The value of this of course depends on your playstyle, goals, content, etc. You'll have to make sacrifices to fit in damage boost 4 though.

    Let's put some numbers to it. Going off the enhancements listed in the OP, you would gain 4 AP from losing healer's friend and repair manipulation 1, then drop corrosive spellcasting 2 and UMD 4 for another 2 AP. That would get you the full line of rogue dil, but you're still missing human versatility damage boost 4 which costs a total of 10 AP.?*You'll be hard pressed to find the AP for that without sacrificing either the rune arm enhancements (which is where a significant portion of an arti's overall dps comes from) or one of the spell power lines (which is what we are trying to avoid).

    Improved rune arm use 4 lets you build charge 25% faster, so that is off limits. You could drop rune arm overcharge gaining a total of 6 AP. I don't always run with my rune arm charged, but I do enough that I wouldn't want to lose this either. To do so would be a loss in rune arm dps. You could drop uncaring master for 2 AP if you don't mind taking damage and losing sp when you're dog dies (mine dies all the time, so I wouldn't want to be without this).?*You're already not going to be able to fit in healing amp, so I wouldn't want to lower wand and scroll mastery any further than it already is, but that would give you 3 AP if you did.?*You could safely drop the other 3 UMD for 3 AP. So no matter how you look at it, you have to sacrifice something to take advantage of what helf has to offer. And if you're not taking advantage of it, then why go helf?

    So my point is valid, a helf arti has to sacrifice some potential offered by either helf or arti. A WF does not face this dilemma and gets superior survivability as well. But as I said before, none of this is going to matter less than a week from now so I won't be spending anymore time arguing the point.
    Totally Bass Ackwards ~ int based/heavy armored pure tempest<>The Count of Monte Cristo ~ dps/CC/survivability focused pure swashbuckler<>Santa's Little Slayer ~ dragonmarked elf centered kensai<>Hassan's Assassin ~ 76 DC/dps/survivability focused human assassin<>Dubbell O'Seven ~ casting/ranged WF artificer

  19. #159
    Community Member Nodoze's Avatar
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    Looking forward to the Post Expansion version of this build !

    Are you going to update the OP in this thread and keep it going or start a new thread?

    If you do start a new thread please at least put a link at the bottom of this thread to the new one as I have this one book-marked/subscribed.

  20. #160
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nodoze View Post
    Looking forward to the Post Expansion version of this build !

    Are you going to update the OP in this thread and keep it going or start a new thread?

    If you do start a new thread please at least put a link at the bottom of this thread to the new one as I have this one book-marked/subscribed.
    I will be updating the OP. I'm going to play around with some of the changes first, and my time is more limited than it used to be, so it might be a few days. I'm also hoping that the character planner gets updated so it's easy to note the changes.
    Totally Bass Ackwards ~ int based/heavy armored pure tempest<>The Count of Monte Cristo ~ dps/CC/survivability focused pure swashbuckler<>Santa's Little Slayer ~ dragonmarked elf centered kensai<>Hassan's Assassin ~ 76 DC/dps/survivability focused human assassin<>Dubbell O'Seven ~ casting/ranged WF artificer

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