Page 1 of 6 12345 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 109

Thread: Levels 18-19

  1. #1
    Community Member Dagolar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    1,877

    Default Levels 18-19

    This thread touched on a fair point, though it was quickly buried into the rather enthusiastic attempts to define 'casual' and discussions of TR xp requirements.

    That point being:
    Levels 18 and 19 have become a lot more difficult to level up on, both due to:

    A dearth of xp to the level range

    There are plenty of quests- Cannith, Amrath, IQ, DD, but they don't give enough xp versus the total needed compared to quest selections at other levels to make it easily manageable even on a first life- which was fine, when the cap, the goal-line, was 20, but makes a lot less sense now that the cap has moved up to 25.

    You can easily hit level 21 in a day, even playing pretty casually, but just going from 17 to 18 takes more effort- again, not necessarily due to a comparative lack of quests to the range, but simply a difference in the xp offered within that range.

    (Think of it this way: You can easily level 3 levels off of any one of Sands, or GH, or Vale without problem- yet we have four packs that barely cover a single level's worth of xp. There's a definite change in the xp ratios once you hit the highest heroic levels- or, as one person mentioned, we go from 10-30k xp quests to 6-10k xp quests.)

    So, the question is, does it make sense anymore that 17-20 quests should offer minimal xp so as to take a long time to level, with the cap moved up? Especially when 21-23 is comparatively easier to farm out?


    A lack of ability to play level 20 quests, or ability to group with higher level characters

    Power-leveling penalties -make sense-. So there's not much to do about players gravitating to higher levels.
    But for any other level range, we're not limited solely to quests within that range. Of course, epics offer notably higher xp than heroic quests, but the inability to play (Epic) level 20 quests leaves us with just 3 level 20 quests available to heroic toons (two of which are raids, and one of which gives abysmal xp, even in terms of high level heroic quests). IE, there ARE in fact less quests available than there ought be.


    Now, Mal offered us this:

    Quote Originally Posted by MajMalphunktion View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Kakashi67 View Post
    Then the real solution is...GIVE US MORE QUESTS!

    Levels 15-20 should have just as much variety as the low levels do.
    We are working on that.
    So, really, this post is just more to emphasize a specific element of the issue, and to note that simply adding more quests to the end levels of the heroic range isn't necessarily the only valid solution anymore.
    Whether it's a tweak to the xp gains of higher level heroic quests, or removing the epic level barrier (perhaps even with penalties for running below level), some additional considerations to the leveling process for that level range should be given.

    The sum of it is, we'd love new quests- I'd definitely love to be able to run TRs on some new quests!- but heroic levels haven't yet been adjusted to handle the addition of the new epic level content- however that may end up being handled.
    Last edited by Dagolar; 07-29-2012 at 03:45 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Xeraphim View Post
    Fly? That would break every quest in the game. You would see folks falling from the sky in Korthos and dying. It would be a rain of newbs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dandonk View Post
    Yeah. It's not "we nuked the city from orbit", it's "the city experienced a brief population drop". Check.

  2. #2
    Community Member thebeast1985's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Italy
    Posts
    91

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dagolar View Post
    This thread touched on a fair point, though it was quickly buried into the rather enthusiastic attempts to define 'casual' and discussions of TR xp requirements.

    That point being:
    Levels 18 and 19 have become a lot more difficult to level up on, both due to:

    A dearth of xp to the level range

    There are plenty of quests- Cannith, Amrath, IQ, DD, but they don't give enough xp versus the total needed compared to quest selections at other levels to make it easily manageable even on a first life- which was fine, when the cap, the goal-line, was 20, but makes a lot less sense now that the cap has moved up to 25.

    You can easily hit level 21 in a day, even playing pretty casually, but just going from 17 to 18 takes more effort- again, not necessarily due to a comparative lack of quests to the range, but simply a difference in the xp offered within that range.

    (Think of it this way: You can easily level 3 levels off of any one of Sands, or GH, or Vale without problem- yet we have four packs that barely cover a single level's worth of xp. There's a definite change in the xp ratios once you hit the highest heroic levels- or, as one person mentioned, we go from 10-30k xp quests to 6-10k xp quests.)

    So, the question is, does it make sense anymore that 17-20 quests should offer minimal xp so as to take a long time to level, with the cap moved up? Especially when 21-23 is comparatively easier to farm out?


    A lack of ability to play level 20 quests, or ability to group with higher level characters

    Power-leveling penalties -make sense-. So there's not much to do about players gravitating to higher levels.
    But for any other level range, we're not limited solely to quests within that range. Of course, epics offer notably higher xp than heroic quests, but the inability to play (Epic) level 20 quests leaves us with just 3 level 20 quests available to heroic toons (two of which are raids, and one of which gives abysmal xp, even in terms of high level heroic quests). IE, there ARE in fact less quests available than there ought be.


    Now, Mal offered us this:



    So, really, this post is just more to emphasize a specific element of the issue, and to note that simply adding more quests to the end levels of the heroic range isn't necessarily the only valid solution anymore.
    Whether it's a tweak to the xp gains of higher level heroic quests, or removing the epic level barrier (perhaps even with penalties for running below level), some additional considerations to the leveling process for that level range should be given.

    The sum of it is, we'd love new quests- I'd definitely love to be able to run TRs on some new quests!- but heroic levels haven't yet been adjusted to handle the addition of the new epic level content- however that may end up being handled.
    i agree completely (+1)

  3. #3
    Uber Completionist luvirini's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    1,377

    Default

    Oh yes, while banking levels was a good idea on TR 2+ before. Now it is kind of mandatory

    The total xp reasonably available (and the rate of gain) is just fairly low at level 19.

    So running the xp from vale is good to skip until you are 18 and staying 18 also allows full xp from normal reavers refuge.

    Before you could get fairly large chunk of xp from the raids, but now they are 0xp due to powerleveling and amrrath partie as dried up as level 20s are running epics and such.

    It all adds up

  4. #4
    Pirate Hero
    2015 DDO Players Council
    RedOrm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    1,139

    Default

    /signed. More quests are always good, and in this case even more so!

  5. #5
    Community Member Daitengu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    209

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by luvirini View Post
    and amrrath partie as dried up as level 20s are running epics and such.
    So true,trying to do some amrath stuff for weeks now. But noone is interested.

  6. #6
    Community Member Uma-Quixote's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    uk
    Posts
    432

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Daitengu View Post
    So true,trying to do some amrath stuff for weeks now. But noone is interested.
    Likewise.....got a 3rd life tr 18 who just isn't finding groups for Amrath OR for cannith

  7. #7
    Community Member JasonJi72's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    707

    Default

    I agree, now you can't even get xp from raids while leveling, since they will almost always some 22's and above.

    Today, I saw a post for Dreaming in the Dark on elite for levels 21-23. I was flabbergasted. In the past, I have used the Dreaming Dark quests along with slayers to get from level 19-20 (banking 19 of course).

    Shroud xp is gone.

    Hound xp is gone.

    Hard to find groups for amrath without taking an xp hit.

    Cannith Challenge xp has been nerfed to insignificant.

    Most of the quests close to 20 give xp comparable to what you would get under level 10 (xp/min). Not xp ratio, but xp. When you consider the insane amount of xp needed for a double tr to get from 18-20, something needs to be addressed.

    It wasn't such a big deal before, but now with half the quests that were available out the window, and/or done with reduced xp, this issue should be investigated.
    Jyn... Kender... Thelanis

    *Insert clever comment here*

  8. #8
    Community Member Mastikator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Thelanis
    Posts
    1,065

    Default

    /signed
    Most of Shavarath, Cannith, IQ and Dreaming Dark quest should get between 50-100% exp buff.

    It's ridiculous that people farm level 17 quests for levels 18-19 (Reaver's Refuge).
    That which does not kill you gives you experience points.

    (Fighter->Fighter->Fighter->Monk->Monk->Barbarian->Paladin->Ranger)

  9. #9
    Community Member pseudomasochist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    323

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mastikator View Post
    /signed
    Most of Shavarath, Cannith, IQ and Dreaming Dark quest should get between 50-100% exp buff.

    It's ridiculous that people farm level 17 quests for levels 18-19 (Reaver's Refuge).
    If that keeps getting repeated, the Reaver's Refuge quests might end up being "adjusted to provide a more reasonable amount of XP/minute."

    My opinion is the Inspired Quarter and Dreaming Dark quests are about right because they're all relatively short and easy. The Shavarath quests can use a modest boost and the House Cannith content needs a significant increase in experience rewards.

    Another possibility that has been brought up before is removing the level 20 requirement for epic quests. That makes more sense now than ever considering how easy epic normal is compared with the top end heroic quests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
    Math never helps solve problems, it only further complicates them.

  10. #10
    Community Member Shade's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    14,425

    Default

    I don't agree more lowbie quests is the solution. I think its a poor solution.

    I think the solution is to allow non20s, in epic quests.

    lvl18/19s can EASILY do the current epic normal: HouseK, House P, House D and Harbour epics. If they were allowed. (personally think the desert epics shoudl be rerated as lvl25 quests, they are quite tough regardless)

    /not signed for more lowbie quest.s. There are plenty in said range, just the "20 only" restriction causes issues.

    /signed for allowing non 20s into epics.

  11. #11
    Community Member redspecter23's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Toronto, Ontario
    Posts
    3,688

    Default

    Allow non 20's into epics

    Give at least a few more heroic quests. Level 20 in particular is an xp void

    Adjust xp on Amrath and House C up to the point where they are competitive with Reaver's Refuge


    I think all these things are fair and reasonable requests.
    Kaarloe - Degenerate Matter - Argonnessen

  12. #12
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    1,427

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
    I don't agree more lowbie quests is the solution. I think its a poor solution.

    I think the solution is to allow non20s, in epic quests.

    lvl18/19s can EASILY do the current epic normal: HouseK, House P, House D and Harbour epics. If they were allowed. (personally think the desert epics shoudl be rerated as lvl25 quests, they are quite tough regardless)

    /not signed for more lowbie quest.s. There are plenty in said range, just the "20 only" restriction causes issues.

    /signed for allowing non 20s into epics.
    letting non-20's into epics would go a long way to alleviating the gap that is now present. It seems to me that the request for more quests in this range comes from the limited availability of quests and the comparatively low amount of xp awarded for those quests. boosting the xp from level 18-20 quests, and allowing people into epic level quests prior to level 20, would greatly alleviate this issue.

  13. #13
    Community Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    2,671

    Default

    I've been saying that there should be more level 14+ quests. I don't expect many quests (if any) to be added in the level 14 to 15 range. However, I think there may be more, although not many, level 16+ quests added.

    I agree with the call for upping the XP for Amarth, Secrets, IQ and Dreaming Dark quests.
    * IQ and Dreaming Dark have about the right XP, but the optionals probably could use a 5% boost. Also some of the rare optionals should be made permanent with XP in these quests. For example, Larazgi's appearance in Mining for Ancient Secrets is so rare that he almost never appears in a part of the quest people rarely venture into--in fact, it's so rare that his entry has been completely scrubbed from the DDOwiki.
    * Secrets (House C) should have been given as a minimum 6000 XP on Elite quests and double for the raids.
    * Amarth quests should be adjusted upward depending on the quest. I think right now, both Weapon Shipment and Bastion of Power should probably get a larger boost in XP than other quests.

    Additionally, I'd increase the cap of the Subterrane to at least 23, if not more. It's probably the toughest explorer in the game, yet it's capped at level 21. Additionally, Heroic players are getting hit with the powerleveling penalty in the raids, so allowing them to get some XP from the explorer would at least be a nice source.

  14. #14
    Community Member susiedupfer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    899

    Default /signed

    More XP available for levels 17-20 is needed. However it is accomplished, I do not care. Challenge XP nerfing hit most of us hard! It was the answer of how to bridge that gap of Vale-level 20. It is just too difficult to find groups to run Amrath, Cannith, Reavers. Challenges can be done with just a couple of people.

    Speaking of packs that it is difficult to get groups for; the problem seems to be twofold. First is the sorry xp/min. Second is that the gear you get/can craft from here is now mostly useless in the face of better random generated loot or gear from the xpac. There is no benefit to running these packs any longer that makes them worth farming for gear or xp.
    Orien: Zizie, Zeelee, Zeeny, Zeety, Zeleste, Zeeby
    ?

  15. #15
    Community Member CheeseMilk's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Canadia
    Posts
    1,840

    Default

    I agree strongly with the suggestion of more lowbie quests, but then, I'll always want more new content.

    I also agree with allowing 18-19 into entry-level epic content, however, the problem with this becomes repeat penalties, which is already an issue for levelling destinies, and would only become worse if you're using those quests just to get to 20. So we would need more epic content, as well.

    Seems to always boil down to more content, and quickly.

    Give us a "Classic DDO" epic pack. Gwylan's, Tear, Stormcleave, Korromar, Xorian Cipher. The quests are already there, they just need some numbers tweaked, and maybe a few surprises thrown in. Make them lvl 23-25 (EN-EE), and let us get into House P and D epics at lvl 19. This will tide us over for a bit.

    And then give a bunch of new stuff soon.

  16. #16
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    In a box.
    Posts
    2,266

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
    I don't agree more lowbie quests is the solution. I think its a poor solution.

    I think the solution is to allow non20s, in epic quests.

    lvl18/19s can EASILY do the current epic normal: HouseK, House P, House D and Harbour epics. If they were allowed. (personally think the desert epics shoudl be rerated as lvl25 quests, they are quite tough regardless)

    /not signed for more lowbie quest.s. There are plenty in said range, just the "20 only" restriction causes issues.

    /signed for allowing non 20s into epics.
    So 18-19 quests are lowbie quests now? :&

  17. #17
    The Hatchery Galeria's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    2,377

    Default

    Allow heroic level characters into epic quests.

    I have 3 toons stalled at the 17-19 range because it requires a huge amount of XP on a +< third life to cap and many of the quests have their XP lowered by level 21-24 characters now, who are also looking for moar XP.

    17-19 is now a wasteland of higher difficulty quests with their XP lowered by epic toons.
    A PUG is like a box of chocolates
    Get people to read your post.

  18. #18
    Community Member Lilbadass's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    136

    Default

    I think more quest will help but not solve th xp issue for toons in the 17-20 range , being power lvld by lvl22+ sux , as said before most raid xp is gone due to this , I agree about letting lvl 19 into the older epics , and for lvl 21+ have a xp penalty for doing a quest with lvl 16-19

  19. #19
    Community Member Kinerd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    4,710

    Default

    It's really very disheartening that epic levels were implemented at all. They provide perhaps 1/1000th of the power an epic destiny does and only serve to make high level experience gathering even more tedious due to overlevel and repeat penalties and further fragmenting potential groups.

    The lesson, as always: Turbine doesn't think things through.

  20. #20
    Community Member Dieterstrife's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    316

    Default

    /signed

    I have 2 toons that need to both go through their 3rd lives. I haven't been able to cap the second one, she's sitting at 18 banking 19. There are absolutely no groups, and all hope of soloing that stuff on elite is totally hopeless unless you're geared to the teeth or a toaster sorc. Even if I do it on norm or hard, it's still going to be over a days worth of farming, just to get halfway through 19. Any hope of finding a group dries up after waiting for an hour, and most of the people in that range are stoners with 200hp barbs with 0 fort or rogues with max wisdom, etc etc. It's impossible, especially if you want to run Cannith or Amrath. 9kxp for 20 minutes on elite? How is that even fair?

Page 1 of 6 12345 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload