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  1. #41
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    When I read about the number of pots that are being consumed in completing this raid, I have to LOL at all of the people who say it is "so easy"...

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by HAL View Post
    When I read about the number of pots that are being consumed in completing this raid, I have to LOL at all of the people who say it is "so easy"...
    Giving the boss an attack that drains SP doesn't make her particularly challenging, it just makes it resource intensive.

    There's a big difference between a tough raid/ boss fight that requires coordination, skill and planning to overcome (which is very fun) and a raid/ boss fight that discourages the use of shrines to replenish resources and uses (what I consider) shmarmy mechanics that encourage the use of store bought consumables (SP pots). Not so fun.

    Chugging pots doesn't make the raid hard. Using an attack that forces casters to drink pots doesn't make the raid hard. It makes it expensive and unfun.

    If I run out of pots because I forgot to deathward my melees and they then got level drained or vorpalled, and I had to use extra resources to take care of those players, my bad. I'll take pots. I didn't plan according to the challenge correctly, and I'll look forward to overcoming that challenge without the expenditure of extra resources in the future. That's what gives me a sense of confidence in my playstyle and toon, and that's fun.

    But for a "challenge" like an SP drain ray, my plan is to simply not do the raid.

  3. #43
    Community Member Oliphant's Avatar
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    When they solve the mystery of Island X, they will have learned

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ranncore View Post
    Giving the boss an attack that drains SP doesn't make her particularly challenging, it just makes it resource intensive.

    There's a big difference between a tough raid/ boss fight that requires coordination, skill and planning to overcome (which is very fun) and a raid/ boss fight that discourages the use of shrines to replenish resources and uses (what I consider) shmarmy mechanics that encourage the use of store bought consumables (SP pots). Not so fun.

    Chugging pots doesn't make the raid hard. Using an attack that forces casters to drink pots doesn't make the raid hard. It makes it expensive and unfun.

    If I run out of pots because I forgot to deathward my melees and they then got level drained or vorpalled, and I had to use extra resources to take care of those players, my bad. I'll take pots. I didn't plan according to the challenge correctly, and I'll look forward to overcoming that challenge without the expenditure of extra resources in the future. That's what gives me a sense of confidence in my playstyle and toon, and that's fun.

    But for a "challenge" like an SP drain ray, my plan is to simply not do the raid.
    Ok, that's a fair point. But I wonder if those who reported using 60-100 pots really just "forgot" to use Deathward or if there was some other reason they used all those pots...

    And for those of us who don't even have the resources to buy a hundred pots, that's a different sort of difficulty.

  5. #45
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    Supposedly if you are finding yourself too dependent on pot you are 'doing it wrong' and should be paying more attention to phallic objects.

    .. I'm just paraphrasing here tho...


    Quote Originally Posted by MajMalphunktion View Post
    *Handwraps. Yes we know. Here is my known issue for handwraps. Hand wraps in assorted flavors are borked.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by HAL View Post
    And for those of us who don't even have the resources to buy a hundred pots, that's a different sort of difficulty.
    The difficulty is called Pay to Win and it's a pretty popular topic in the DDO forums right now.

  7. #47
    Community Member Chaios's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ranncore View Post
    do what i did - cancel your subscription. now dont get me wrong - i love DDO too. but im just not going to pay for all these bugs anymore. maybe once they step up their game, ile start paying them again.
    Be sure to let them know the exit survey is broken.
    Chaeos of Argonessen, Human Rogue/Fighter
    Please re-break AC differently.

  8. #48
    Community Member Oliphant's Avatar
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    Recent update notes suggest the raid is fixed. Is it?

  9. #49
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ranncore View Post
    Giving the boss an attack that drains SP doesn't make her particularly challenging, it just makes it resource intensive.

    There's a big difference between a tough raid/ boss fight that requires coordination, skill and planning to overcome (which is very fun) and a raid/ boss fight that discourages the use of shrines to replenish resources and uses (what I consider) shmarmy mechanics that encourage the use of store bought consumables (SP pots). Not so fun.

    Chugging pots doesn't make the raid hard. Using an attack that forces casters to drink pots doesn't make the raid hard. It makes it expensive and unfun.

    If I run out of pots because I forgot to deathward my melees and they then got level drained or vorpalled, and I had to use extra resources to take care of those players, my bad. I'll take pots. I didn't plan according to the challenge correctly, and I'll look forward to overcoming that challenge without the expenditure of extra resources in the future. That's what gives me a sense of confidence in my playstyle and toon, and that's fun.

    But for a "challenge" like an SP drain ray, my plan is to simply not do the raid.
    There are quite a few obsticles the casters can get behind in order to block the attack. The heavy beaters are the only ones who should be right up front. Once we figured this out, we were doing zero pot completions.

    But youre right, it doesnt add "challenge" - its just less forgiving if people fail at using the obsticles to hide behind.

  10. #50
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    As you or your dev team enter dialog with (or "aggro") clients, you gradually increase the “alertness” of the forum or metagame you are in with as the number of users you enter dialog with increases. Your players become harder to escape from, and posters grow challenging having had the time to be alerted to your presence. The Forum Alert system is forgiving initially, but gets progressively harder as your party reaches certain thresholds of alert. Forum Alert is best bypassed by sneaking past nerfs, and by keeping the number of bug reports in forum posts under the alert threshold, which will vary depending on the number of affected characters. It was intended to reduce occurrences of complaining players dragging large numbers of devs around without dealing with the glitches in some form.

    Alert Levels

    With each alert level, an icon will appear to warn you that your customers are becoming more and more aware of a bug's presence:
    • [No Skull] The players affected by this bug are not yet alerted to its presence
    • [Green skull] Your presence has not gone unnoticed by the players affected by this bug.
    • [Yellow skull] You have angered many customers, and your posters have been alerted to the presence of dev comments.
    • [Orange skull] You have angered many clients, and your forum users have been alerted to the presence of devs, and are spamming offensive comments.
    • [Red skull] You have angered a great many customers, and your forum users have been alerted to the presence of devs and are threatening empty lawsuits and subscription cancellations!


    At the Green Skull alert level, you will note the inhabitants of forums becoming more aggressive in their pursuit of you. Vets of the forums will also fight more fiercely, having had advanced notice of your comments. At the Yellow Skull alert level, customers will cause you to be Harried on contact (even if their attack roll fails).

    Should you be unfortunate enough to reach the Red Skull alert, pray to your gods, for the consumers in that forum are out for your blood and the mere sight of you will work them into a frothing rabble determined to post replies to you at all costs!

    Troll Alert
    Troll Posters in particular gain huge buff from this Forum Alert system. You can see "Troll Alert I" and so on description by examining them. Most noticeable effect of Troll Alert is semi-valid proof to their arguments. Friendly posters will have huge trouble hitting them with logic with Orange and Red Alert. Carrying memes and Image Macros and other derailleurs for such case is recommended.

    How to Prevent or Remove Alert
    To help prevent a developer from getting in a situation where they've inadvertently made their demographic too upset, certain actions can reduce and mitigate the alert level. These actions can happen on the fly, and help a dev to effectively manage how much transparency their players have at any point during their adventure. Such beneficial actions include:
    • Destroying posters: by killing, banishing, or otherwise slaying posters, you reduce their ability to alert their friends to fight you!
    • Charming posters: You're one of their fold now! Charmed posters don't try to argue your posts.
    • Sneaking by nerfs: It's hard to make a fuss about that which isn't seen. If you successfully slip nerfs by players using your stealth and are not caught, you're in the clear, having not alerted every mob and his brother to its existence. An additional benefit to our stealthy types is vets will no longer have ESP, forever searching for you. If you're careful not to be discovered, your posters will eventually give up looking for you! After all, it must have just been their keyboard or mouse.
    • The passage of time: Time heals all wounds. Posters in a forum will eventually calm down after a while even if you agitated their entire hive. If you've not been seen or heard from for a while, the bad guys gradually presume you were dispatched and their angst decreases.

    Devs can use any combination of these techniques to manage how aware their clients are to their bugs' presence. It is possible to take some trolls in tow in the heat of the moment, but if you start to amass a small army's worth of trouble, the danger also amasses!

  11. #51
    The Hatchery samthedagger's Avatar
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    Threads like this and the ones that kept popping up on Lama are the whole reason I have not even ATTEMPTED the raid yet, let alone bother to flag. There is plenty of other fun stuff to do in epic levels and in the expansion pack without the raid. I'll wait until this whole debacle is over and fixed before I try it. The constant frustration is the reason I don't like to be a beta-tester.

    And the GMs are indeed useless in this game. I am VIP and have had several very legitimate issues that could clearly be seen by anyone in the quest, and yet the GM says the same thing every time. Get rid of the GMs if they can't do anything. They are a waste of time and money.

  12. #52
    Community Member Oliphant's Avatar
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    This game has enough going right for it and it's so big that its ok if everything does not work properly. For example, we get epic xp now and it added a lot to playing the classic epics, so we have something to do while the raid gets (hopefully) fixed.

    My priority would be fix customer service, then fix the raid. The GMs seem to act consistently enough that I think it's just policy and don't blame them personally. I hope the people can be re-directed to do something else more useful, or fix the GM approach, but I too think they should just get rid of the in-game GMs' role if they can't help. At the very least change the message, "If there is nothing else I can help you with, good bye." *ends chat immediately*

    If you believe that customers might not appreciate waiting sometimes hours for ticket response, often getting less than 3 minutes of GM time and then being told you can't help and that we need to re-type the whole ordeal for any meaningful bug reporting, try this:
    1. Allow and encourage GMs to help out as much as possible.
    2. Allow and encourage the GM to enter the quest as a toon to observe and fix bugs.
    3. If a GM believes there may be a bug, forward ticket chat log and GM internal comments as a bug report.
    4. Prioritizing bug testing, reporting and fixing to reduce the need for in-game support.
    5. If it takes longer than 10 minutes to respond to a ticket, go over the top with customer service to make up for it.
    6. If it takes hours, ask why does it take hours?

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by samthedagger View Post
    Threads like this and the ones that kept popping up on Lama are the whole reason I have not even ATTEMPTED the raid yet, let alone bother to flag. There is plenty of other fun stuff to do in epic levels and in the expansion pack without the raid. I'll wait until this whole debacle is over and fixed before I try it. The constant frustration is the reason I don't like to be a beta-tester.

    And the GMs are indeed useless in this game. I am VIP and have had several very legitimate issues that could clearly be seen by anyone in the quest, and yet the GM says the same thing every time. Get rid of the GMs if they can't do anything. They are a waste of time and money.
    Most of the issues in the raid have been fixed (none of the customer service issues have been addressed).

    That being said, I went ahead and did the raid on Hard.

    It took us an hour and a half. I used 4 pots (played my cleric). One named item dropped. Twelve people, 5 chests each. One named item. Big waste of time - I'll probably never go back.

    I thought the raid was a bore. I hate the demonweb - it's a maze, the web bridges are hard to see, and watching my character walk sideways is really stupid. I get the impression that they couldn't figure out how to make your character move realistically in the terrain, so they just threw an icon on the top that says, "Environmental Gravity Effect."

    Lolth is the least dangerous part of the raid. In fact, most of the deaths in our party were caused by people accidentally falling off. And when you fall off, it's a long, boring run back.

    The end was also a huge disappointment. Watch Ana get to play. Bad writing at it's finest.

    The first encounter with Lolth was pretty cool - it pretty much all went downhill from there.

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