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Thread: Rage

  1. #1
    Community Member mr_O's Avatar
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    Default Rage

    So disturbing trend on Sarlona is healing classes not healing. I ran Chrono on EH today and was dead twice in the first five minutes both times IN FRONT OF THE FVS. Im all for playing a toon however you want to just look at the last thread I posted about my rogue. But if you sign on to fill a specific role, FILL THAT ROLE. Or at least try, come on people even good Horc sword swinging fvs can and do toss heals to back up. thats difference between being good and being stuborn on a fvs/cleric.
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    Community Member Fomori's Avatar
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    First off, I'll say that the FvS probably should have been helping out with the healing.

    However, your red bar is the not the responsibility of the person with the blue bar. If you notice they are not healing you, then you need to take measures to ensure your own survival. Move, heal yourself, or something!

    Remember that while we are playing a social game you have the responsibility to try and mitigate some of that damage as well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mournbladereigns View Post
    Actually, if this Nerf's one of Shade's barb's I doubly support this!

  3. #3

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    Do not tell me what to do

  4. #4
    Community Member mr_O's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fomori View Post
    First off, I'll say that the FvS probably should have been helping out with the healing.

    However, your red bar is the not the responsibility of the person with the blue bar. If you notice they are not healing you, then you need to take measures to ensure your own survival. Move, heal yourself, or something!

    Remember that while we are playing a social game you have the responsibility to try and mitigate some of that damage as well.
    This I understand and carry minimum 200 heal scrolls at all times.(to heal mysef spot heal the party etc.) That being said if I cant get away from say a teleporting devil and cant get off a scroll due to him hitting me just fast enough that I am forced to make a concentration check then yes, the guy with the blue bar standing still and not casting ANYTHING while spinning about is the one who should be healing.
    Kixie,cixie,assassyn,synfully,jacktherippa,livingd eath of sarlona

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    Community Member Uma-Quixote's Avatar
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    I very much doubt the fvs was just standing there watching you die. Was probably lagging/spiked, could have been keeping another toon alive, could have been having some rl emergency, might have fallen off his chair...there are a hundred reasons why he didn't/couldn't heal you...

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    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    If you show up for a raid and occupy a healing spot, youre healing the raid. The issue I see alot is when a heal capable class joins due to the fact that the group is looking for healers, knowingly occupies the healer slot, then doesnt heal. People have tried to tell me that players red bars are not the resposibility of the blue bar, but when that blue bar got into the group due to the fact they they do indeed have a blue bar and a heal spell, those red bars certainly are, in part, their responsibility.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

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    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uma-Quixote View Post
    I very much doubt the fvs was just standing there watching you die. Was probably lagging/spiked, could have been keeping another toon alive, could have been having some rl emergency, might have fallen off his chair...there are a hundred reasons why he didn't/couldn't heal you...
    Its even more hilarious when they themselves prove this wrong when the raise comes in a half second after death. There are a few folks knowingly getting into groups who were obviously looking for a healer, then not healing on purpose.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uma-Quixote View Post
    I very much doubt the fvs was just standing there watching you die. Was probably lagging/spiked, could have been keeping another toon alive, could have been having some rl emergency, might have fallen off his chair...there are a hundred reasons why he didn't/couldn't heal you...
    Not going to lie, if it was me then I was probably standing their laughing while seeing the red bar go down.

    Anyways on a real note I understand where OP is coming from. He specified in his opening statement that "if you fill a specific role" this being said, if that healer signed into the group to be a healer, then yes he should be required to heal. With that said though, I do not feel the need for every healer type toon to be required to heal, their are many viable builds out there that complament a party without having to heal. Especially with such easy access to UMD gear and Silver Flame pots. I've tanked Epic lob before the changes when both healers went down due to cometfall or something trivial with nothing but silver flame pots. It is doable, it is expensive though.
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    Now for a quick note, names are easy to write down. Keep track of the names of healers that refuse to heal and anex them if you wish. Regardless of popular belief, their are more than plenty of healers out there.
    Eternal Wrath - Kages - Prototypes - Rest ful - Musei - Dizafrabdont - Enkou - Kagehissori - many more"To be human is to have the freedom to control one's own fate." ~Karl Marx~

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    Community Member LafoMamone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    If you show up for a raid and occupy a healing spot, youre healing the raid. The issue I see alot is when a heal capable class joins due to the fact that the group is looking for healers, knowingly occupies the healer slot, then doesnt heal. People have tried to tell me that players red bars are not the resposibility of the blue bar, but when that blue bar got into the group due to the fact they they do indeed have a blue bar and a heal spell, those red bars certainly are, in part, their responsibility.
    This.

    If I see a raid up that is asking for healers specifically, I would only join if I felt like actually healing the raid from beginning to end. And once I'm in, I would do my job because I knew exactly what the group needed and what I was getting myself into.

    Letting a zero fort, 200 HP rogue die in elite ToD is one thing, but joining and then refusing to heal everyone on account of "Do not tell me what to do" is extremely arrogant.

  11. #11
    Community Member hockeyrama's Avatar
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    i have a high level cleric that i use to heal quite frequently and yes I can do other stuff but i do actually heal. When i am not on my cleric I experience the same problem as the op. There are far too many healer based toons that will not heal. If you are in a raid or a quest and can heal then why not jsut do it to help your team (try seeing it as everyone working together instead of a competition) to do the best. You can still kill and do everything else but really.

    That being said if there a guy running off and getting himself killed repeatedly backpacks are an acceptable solution. In this case sounds like he was right there and was not healed and that is not acceptable. It would be like the wizard coming to an epic da to fulfill a cc spot (listed in lfm) then saying he can cc but prefers to just kill and he does not toss any discos at all while the cleric is forced to try to spam heals to keep all alive.

    If people work as a team the game works better. If healers would do this more often there would be less people complaining about the lack of good healers.

    On the otehr side though it is very difficult to play a healer. I ahve been in many quests where melee dont understand how it works. First it is alot easier to heal if people are together. If you start spreading out then it means they have to target each of you indivicually which is very difficult as well as time consuming. Just think about it this way you have to cast heal on one person, tehn cure crit on another and then heal on another and soo on where if everyone was togeterh one mass cure crit would have filled them all (mass heal if they had the time is even nicer). This causes many deaths as people go down to fast for individual targeting and spell selections.

    So be nice to clerics, stay together on the same target and healers be nice to melee and heal them even if you spec to do somethign else you can do it while healing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hockeyrama View Post
    i have a high level cleric that i use to heal quite frequently and yes I can do other stuff but i do actually heal. When i am not on my cleric I experience the same problem as the op. There are far too many healer based toons that will not heal. If you are in a raid or a quest and can heal then why not jsut do it to help your team (try seeing it as everyone working together instead of a competition) to do the best. You can still kill and do everything else but really.

    That being said if there a guy running off and getting himself killed repeatedly backpacks are an acceptable solution. In this case sounds like he was right there and was not healed and that is not acceptable. It would be like the wizard coming to an epic da to fulfill a cc spot (listed in lfm) then saying he can cc but prefers to just kill and he does not toss any discos at all while the cleric is forced to try to spam heals to keep all alive.

    If people work as a team the game works better. If healers would do this more often there would be less people complaining about the lack of good healers.

    On the otehr side though it is very difficult to play a healer. I ahve been in many quests where melee dont understand how it works. First it is alot easier to heal if people are together. If you start spreading out then it means they have to target each of you indivicually which is very difficult as well as time consuming. Just think about it this way you have to cast heal on one person, tehn cure crit on another and then heal on another and soo on where if everyone was togeterh one mass cure crit would have filled them all (mass heal if they had the time is even nicer). This causes many deaths as people go down to fast for individual targeting and spell selections.

    So be nice to clerics, stay together on the same target and healers be nice to melee and heal them even if you spec to do somethign else you can do it while healing.
    You mean DA isn't a solo quest?

    This is a good point, but unrealistic considering the abnorment amount of children that play. In an ideal world though, agreed.

    This is something I have believed for a very very long time. Everyone should make a healer to experience how it works. Blind suggestions and retoricle psychobable be damned, don't comment on what you dont know mr fighter type with no SP pot consumption.

    This part applies to your backpack comment, that and a single res is cheaper than 12 individual heal's.

    Lots of good comments about healers.
    Eternal Wrath - Kages - Prototypes - Rest ful - Musei - Dizafrabdont - Enkou - Kagehissori - many more"To be human is to have the freedom to control one's own fate." ~Karl Marx~

  13. #13
    Community Member Grieve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LafoMamone View Post
    This.
    Letting a zero fort, 200 HP rogue die in elite ToD is one thing, but joining and then refusing to heal everyone on account of "Do not tell me what to do" is extremely arrogant.
    200hp, no fort characters are great vendor trash. They go right in my backpack for safe storage.

    Quote Originally Posted by hockeyrama View Post
    That being said if there a guy running off and getting himself killed repeatedly backpacks are an acceptable solution. In this case sounds like he was right there and was not healed and that is not acceptable. It would be like the wizard coming to an epic da to fulfill a cc spot (listed in lfm) then saying he can cc but prefers to just kill and he does not toss any discos at all while the cleric is forced to try to spam heals to keep all alive.
    What killing all the trash for you isn't good enough? I always thought the best "Crowd Control" was when one just made the crowd disappear (or drop dead take your pick).


    Quote Originally Posted by mr_O View Post
    So disturbing trend on Sarlona is healing classes not healing. I ran Chrono on EH today and was dead twice in the first five minutes both times IN FRONT OF THE FVS. Im all for playing a toon however you want to just look at the last thread I posted about my rogue. But if you sign on to fill a specific role, FILL THAT ROLE. Or at least try, come on people even good Horc sword swinging fvs can and do toss heals to back up. thats difference between being good and being stuborn on a fvs/cleric.
    What? You mean I'm actually supposed to throw a heal? I always thought everyone needed to keep close and stay in my aura. My blue bar is for killing stuff.


    Oh, one last thing. Get some ****ing Heal amp people! Healers love it when you actually have it. I'm not just talking about the WF out there, but fleshies too. WF just have to work harder for it and should make a primary goal to have great heal amp. The biggest turn off to healing someone is when you hit them and there bar goes nowhere. It at that point where I don't care who you are, but you aren't getting anymore heals because I'm not wasting SP on that. (Yes, I do realize atm WF Healer's friend is broken so cutting them a little slack right now.)
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  14. #14

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    I am confused, why does anyone need healing in EH Chrono? CSW pots are good enough for the low damage you take...

    Me thinks something else is going on...
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    Uber Completionist Ilindith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samiusbot View Post
    I am confused, why does anyone need healing in EH Chrono? CSW pots are good enough for the low damage you take...

    Me thinks something else is going on...
    My thoughts exactly, but I was hesitating to voice them
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  16. #16
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samiusbot View Post
    I am confused, why does anyone need healing in EH Chrono? CSW pots are good enough for the low damage you take...

    Me thinks something else is going on...
    Expecting people with HP totals nearing 1k to heal up using CSW pots is pretty redando when one heal spell will top them off. How long is the high DPS fighter or barbarian expected to stand there and drink pots rather than actually DPS the mobs down?

    EH can be blown through even faster if the heavy beaters are damaging mobs the entire time, rather than damaging mobs 25% of the time and guzzling CSW pots 75% of the time.
    Last edited by Chai; 07-26-2012 at 12:08 PM.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ilindith View Post
    My thoughts exactly, but I was hesitating to voice them
    Its ok bro, the voices in your head keep you occupied I'm sure. Mine do.
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  18. #18
    Hero LordPiglet's Avatar
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    Sometimes I just like to let people die. I do this mainly to my guildies, but occasionally if might have happened when a pugger wasn't listening.

  19. #19
    Community Member LafoMamone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grieve View Post
    200hp, no fort characters are great vendor trash. They go right in my backpack for safe storage.
    Tis a nice dream, being able to cash in on every soulstone that you come across. The harbor population would be like Apple stocks.


    Quote Originally Posted by Grieve View Post
    Oh, one last thing. Get some ****ing Heal amp people! Healers love it when you actually have it. I'm not just talking about the WF out there, but fleshies too. WF just have to work harder for it and should make a primary goal to have great heal amp. The biggest turn off to healing someone is when you hit them and there bar goes nowhere. It at that point where I don't care who you are, but you aren't getting anymore heals because I'm not wasting SP on that. (Yes, I do realize atm WF Healer's friend is broken so cutting them a little slack right now.)
    Luckily, WF barbs are pretty much a thing of the past. Fleshies, predominantly Horcs, are firmly holding the barb/fighter department. 80% of WF I come across now are self-healing arties and wizards, with some monks here and there.

  20. #20
    Community Member Gizeh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Expecting people with HP totals nearing 1k to heal up using CSW pots is pretty redando when one heal spell will top them off. How long is the high DPS fighter or barbarian expected to stand there and drink pots rather than actually DPS the mobs down?

    EH can be blown through even faster if the heavy beaters are damaging mobs the entire time, rather than damaging mobs 25% of the time and guzzling CSW pots 75% of the time.
    Divine caster spamming dmg/kill spells instead of healing melees + melees taking forever to get hp back by chugging pots = better kill score for divines = epeen stroking in the forums

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