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  1. #21
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    Arrow Building Prestigious Tanks

    Ever since Update 9, IntimiTanking is real hard to pull off anymore, even if you use a Half-Elf's Social Graces Intimidate skill. That is, relying solely on Intimidate for tanking was nerfed by Turbine a while back. The good news is that they made the Defender of Siberys and Stalwart Defender prestige enhancements really viable now, as they generate serious Threat and have awesome defenses. With Update 15, I think it was, Turbine made Armor Class once again awesome and viable. All that said, a Tank is now a legit party role in DDO.

    My advice is that you read up on those two PEs. I personally prefer the Defender of Siberys, but Stalwart Defender gets it done well, too. However, in both cases, Charisma is not too important. (Even though Paladins like Charisma for their Saves and special abilities such as Lay on Hands.) I typically max-out their Constitution score and build on that every level. Besides that, Strength is the #2 stat for Tanks (hit enemies better so that you can generate your Threat), and then Intelligence is #3 (simply for Combat Expertise). I tend to build Human Defenders of Siberys like this:

    HUMAN
    Strength: 14
    Dexterity: 10
    Constitution: 18
    Intelligence: 12
    Wisdom: 8
    Charisma: 8

    The idea is that you get 1,750 total Favor Points (FP) no later than Level 11 so that you can take Combat Expertise at Level 12 thank to the +2 Intelligence Tome you can get for free and for sure.

    The Feats that I take for Defender of Siberys (18 Paladin/2 Fighter - Fighter levels at L1 and L8) are:

    Level 1 : Toughness
    Level 1 : Bullheaded
    Level 1 : Shield Mastery (Fighter class Feat)

    Level 3 : Improved Shield Bash

    Level 6 : Least Dragonmark of Sentinel

    Level 8 : Improved Shield Mastery (Fighter class Feat)

    Level 9 : Lesser Dragonmark of Sentinel

    Level 12: Greater Dragonmark of Sentinel

    Level 15: Skill Focus: Intimidate

    Level 18: Combat Expertise (take this Feat as soon as you get your +2 INT Tome, then switch-out accordingly - the sooner the better)

    --------

    Again, because of Update 9 and with the subsequent boosts to Armor Class and Threat-generation in the two Defender PEs, the Intimidate Skill is still required for any Tank build, but not the focal point.

    That said, for Stalwart Defender, I think more in terms of a Threat-generator than I do a shieldbearer (unlike the Paladin, who should use a shield). With all those Fight class Feats, you can include more DPS stuff in the build. This is what I like to do for a Warforged Stalwart Defender (pure class):

    WARFORGED
    Strength: 18
    Dexterity: 10
    Constitution: 18
    Intelligence: 8
    Wisdom: 6
    Charisma: 6

    Take Strength all the way.

    And these are the Feats:

    Level 1 : Adamantine Body
    Level 1 : Two-Handed Fighting (class Feat)

    Level 2 : Weapon Focus: Bludgeoning Weapons (class Feat)

    Level 3 : Toughness

    Level 4 : Stunning Blow (class Feat)

    Level 6 : Diehard
    Level 6 : Weapon Specialization: Bludgeoning Weapons (class Feat)

    Level 8 : Greater Weapon Focus: Bludgeoning Weapons (class Feat)

    Level 9 : Toughness

    Level 10: Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons (class Feat)

    Level 12: Toughness
    Level 12: Greater Weapon Specialization: Bludgeoning Weapons (class Feat)

    Level 14: Power Critical (class Feat)

    Level 15: Toughness

    Level 16: Superior Weapon Focus: Bludgeoning Weapons (class Feat)

    Level 18: Toughness
    Level 18: Improved Two Handed Fighting (class Feat)

    Level 20: Greater Two Handed Fighting (class Feat)

    --------

    There are many ways to build for either PE, however, there is really only one way to play a proper Tank strategy. Simply put:

    1) Protect the back line at all costs (the Intimidate Skill makes this easier, but is not always reliable)

    2) Grab and hold every single enemy's Aggro. Per Update 9, that means that you want to be at the top of everyone's Hate List. Playing with teammates who understand how to coordinate attacks and prioritize targets will help you do your job here. Being seen first by enemies, using the Intimidate Skill to grab a mob, and hacking guys to stay at the top of their Hate Lists is the idea.

    3) Don't worry about kills too much. Always disengage your target(s) if the #1 and #2 priorities listed above are being or risk being violated. As Tank, you just want to have all the Aggro. As a team effort, your contribution as a Tank will be recognized by those who appreciate the safety you provide them and the efficiency in your team's combat. While the THF I listed above might get more kills than the S&B Paladin, it will be harder for the THF Stalwart to hold Aggro in a mob situation. Practicing with people who play like you do will help you overcome this possible deficit.



    Snootch

  2. #22
    Community Member Fluffysaurus's Avatar
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    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.12.02
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
    (20 Fighter) 
    Hit Points: 332
    Spell Points: 0 
    BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
    Fortitude: 14
    Reflex: 8
    Will: 8
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    Strength             14                    21
    Dexterity            14                    14
    Constitution         14                    15
    Intelligence         12                    13
    Wisdom                8                     8
    Charisma             14                    14
    
    Tomes Used
    +1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
    Balance               4                    13.5
    Bluff                 2                     2
    Concentration         2                     2
    Diplomacy             2                     2
    Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
    Haggle                2                     2
    Heal                 -1                    -1
    Hide                  2                     2
    Intimidate            6                    41
    Jump                  2                     5
    Listen               -1                    -1
    Move Silently         2                     2
    Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
    Perform               n/a                   n/a
    Repair                1                     1
    Search                1                     1
    Spot                  1                    10.5
    Swim                  2                     5
    Tumble                n/a                   n/a
    Use Magic Device      4                    13.5
    
    Level 1 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Bastard Sword
    Feat: (Human Bonus) Force of Personality
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    
    
    Level 2 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack
    
    
    Level 3 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Selected) Least Dragonmark of Sentinel
    
    
    Level 4 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Cleave
    
    
    Level 5 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 6 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Selected) Lesser Dragonmark of Sentinel
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Handed Fighting
    Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost I
    Enhancement: Fighter Armor Mastery I
    Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender I
    Enhancement: Fighter Tower Shield Mastery I
    Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
    Enhancement: Deneith Intimidation I
    Enhancement: Deneith Intimidation II
    Enhancement: Human Versatility I
    Enhancement: Human Versatility II
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    Enhancement: Improved Intimidate I
    Enhancement: Improved Intimidate II
    Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
    Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
    Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II
    
    
    Level 7 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 8 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 9 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Dragonmark of Sentinel
    
    
    Level 10 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Shield Mastery
    
    
    Level 11 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 12 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Shield Bash
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Shield Mastery
    Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost II
    Enhancement: Fighter Armor Mastery II
    Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender II
    Enhancement: Fighter Tower Shield Mastery II
    Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
    Enhancement: Deneith Intimidation III
    Enhancement: Human Versatility III
    Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
    Enhancement: Improved Intimidate III
    
    
    Level 13 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 14 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Handed Fighting
    
    
    Level 15 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting
    
    
    Level 16 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Great Cleave
    
    
    Level 17 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 18 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Selected) Combat Expertise
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Dodge
    Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost III
    Enhancement: Fighter Armor Mastery III
    Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender III
    Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
    Enhancement: Deneith Intimidation IV
    Enhancement: Human Versatility IV
    Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense II
    Enhancement: Improved Intimidate IV
    Enhancement: Fighter Toughness III
    
    
    Level 19 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 20 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Mobility
    Enhancement: Fighter Weapon Alacrity
    Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Constitution I
    Alright, DDO. I'm back again with more questions. I'm wondering if the Mobility is a bit overboard with all the enhancements I have for my armor and tower shields. I was also wondering if it would be better to keep Mobility and get some other enhancements aside from the Armor Mastery and Tower Shield ones. They're rather costly at the last rank, and I could definitely use it for other things. However, if I keep the enhancements they way they are, I could put in Stunning Blow / Improved Trip / something else.

    I'm also wondering if I have too much dexterity for a tank. The only thing I can think of that would make the extra dex points useful is the reflex saves and the possible bonus to the max dexterity bonus on my armor. If I lower my dexterity to say, ten, I'd have +0 mod. Would I not be able to get the MDB from the enhancements and Mobility?

  3. #23
    The Hatchery Enoach's Avatar
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    Couple things to think about.

    1. Mobility is Craftable on Medium Armor, Light Armor, Clothing, Docent, Ring, Trinket, Boots. It does not stack with the feat. (Bound Level 20, Unbound Level 36)

    2. Plan your dexterity around the MDB you are shooting for. If you want your MDB to be 7 than you need a Base+Tome+Enchantment (ship, exceptional, insight, alchemical, etc.) that is at least 24.

    3. This only opens up potential for Dodge, you still need to Fill that 7% (example above) with Dodge Feats, equipment, ED abilities, etc.

  4. #24
    Community Member Fluffysaurus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enoach View Post
    Couple things to think about.

    1. Mobility is Craftable on Medium Armor, Light Armor, Clothing, Docent, Ring, Trinket, Boots. It does not stack with the feat. (Bound Level 20, Unbound Level 36)

    2. Plan your dexterity around the MDB you are shooting for. If you want your MDB to be 7 than you need a Base+Tome+Enchantment (ship, exceptional, insight, alchemical, etc.) that is at least 24.

    3. This only opens up potential for Dodge, you still need to Fill that 7% (example above) with Dodge Feats, equipment, ED abilities, etc.
    Thanks. Those are some interesting things to think about. Would Mithral Heavy Armor count as Medium Armor?

    I'm not sure what I am shooting for, but I do think I'm going to lower my DEX and get rid of Mobility. Is Dodge worth it at all, or should I switch it to something more useful?

  5. #25
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffysaurus View Post
    Would Mithral Heavy Armor count as Medium Armor?
    Mithril automatically downshifts the armor type a notch: thus mithril full plate is medium instead of hvy while mithril breastplate is light instead of med. Pre-MotU, this didn't matter so much, but now that PRR is partially based on armor type, you're actually losing a bit of protection in mithril. Despite that, Cavalry Plate is still a solid all-around choice until you can get, say, epic dragonscale armor.

    Also, I'm not sure I would bother with the Sentinel DMs anymore; eFang has been overshadowed by better epic weapons and d.axes pull ahead of b.swords in Legendary Dreadnaught (thanks in part to Headman's Chop).

  6. #26
    Community Member Fluffysaurus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    Mithril automatically downshifts the armor type a notch: thus mithril full plate is medium instead of hvy while mithril breastplate is light instead of med. Pre-MotU, this didn't matter so much, but now that PRR is partially based on armor type, you're actually losing a bit of protection in mithril. Despite that, Cavalry Plate is still a solid all-around choice until you can get, say, epic dragonscale armor.

    Also, I'm not sure I would bother with the Sentinel DMs anymore; eFang has been overshadowed by better epic weapons and d.axes pull ahead of b.swords in Legendary Dreadnaught (thanks in part to Headman's Chop).
    Sentinel DMs give good bonuses to Intimidate, but I do see your point. They're not that great. I could perhaps use weapon specs or something else there.

    EDIT: I just noticed more of your post. It would be just as easy to use dwarven axes instead of bastard swords, because I could just replace it. However, I do like being able to use bastard swords just for aesthetics. What would I even get to make up for the Sentinel DMs? I'm losing out on some Intimidate, but I could just use Skill Focus: Intimidate and maybe Bullheaded. I could shove down all of my other feats and take them earlier and take those later.

    EDIT #2: This is the alternate feat line without the Sentinel DMs.

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.12.02
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
    (20 Fighter) 
    Hit Points: 282
    Spell Points: 0 
    BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
    Fortitude: 14
    Reflex: 7
    Will: 8
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    Strength             14                    19
    Dexterity            12                    12
    Constitution         15                    15
    Intelligence         12                    13
    Wisdom                8                     8
    Charisma             14                    14
    
    Tomes Used
    +1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
    Balance               1                     1
    Bluff                 2                     2
    Concentration         2                     2
    Diplomacy             2                     2
    Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
    Haggle                2                     2
    Heal                 -1                    -1
    Hide                  1                     1
    Intimidate            2                     5
    Jump                  2                     4
    Listen               -1                    -1
    Move Silently         1                     1
    Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
    Perform               n/a                   n/a
    Repair                1                     1
    Search                1                     1
    Spot                 -1                    -1
    Swim                  2                     4
    Tumble                n/a                   n/a
    Use Magic Device      n/a                   n/a
    
    Level 1 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Bastard Sword
    Feat: (Human Bonus) Force of Personality
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    
    
    Level 2 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack
    
    
    Level 3 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Selected) Cleave
    
    
    Level 4 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Handed Fighting
    
    
    Level 5 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 6 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Great Cleave
    Feat: (Selected) Shield Mastery
    
    
    Level 7 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 8 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 9 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Shield Mastery
    
    
    Level 10 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Shield Bash
    
    
    Level 11 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 12 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Selected) Combat Expertise
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Handed Fighting
    
    
    Level 13 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 14 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Trip
    
    
    Level 15 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting
    
    
    Level 16 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Stunning Blow
    
    
    Level 17 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 18 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Intimidate
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 19 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 20 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
    Last edited by Fluffysaurus; 04-06-2013 at 01:06 PM.

  7. #27
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    For a new player without twink gear, having Shield of Faith + Energy Prot. clickies from Least & Lesser Sentinel DM is handy on a pure ftr. And while eFang is not a great DPS option for endgame anymore, it does have some nice bonuses consolidated on it (Shatter +10, 10/15/20% threat amp, Superior Parrying, +50% fortification), which makes it a good interim choice as an "entry-level" epic weapon, IMHO. So I could see using the Sentinel DMs + eFang while leveling, then LRing to get rid of them once you finished gearing up.

    As for b.sword vs d.axe: why not take both proficiencies and swap based on which you prefer or happens to be better?

  8. #28
    Community Member Fluffysaurus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    For a new player without twink gear, having Shield of Faith + Energy Prot. clickies from Least & Lesser Sentinel DM is handy on a pure ftr. And while eFang is not a great DPS option for endgame anymore, it does have some nice bonuses consolidated on it (Shatter +10, 10/15/20% threat amp, Superior Parrying, +50% fortification), which makes it a good interim choice as an "entry-level" epic weapon, IMHO. So I could see using the Sentinel DMs + eFang while leveling, then LRing to get rid of them once you finished gearing up.

    As for b.sword vs d.axe: why not take both proficiencies and swap based on which you prefer or happens to be better?
    Switching between two exotic weapons sounds like a waste of a feat, one which I'd rather use on something more useful. They're both good weapons and they both accomplish what I want done, but I'd rather have the sword just for aesthetics. As for the bonuses from the Sentinel DMs, I decided just to keep them removed.

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