Thinking something along the lines of 'effective spell power' would fit their new system best long term.
Last edited by Scraap; 07-18-2012 at 10:59 AM.
Before U14 I was using Superior Ardor clickies to boost my Heal and mass CLW/CMW. Heal was consistently hitting for over 400 per cast. Since the update I only get 240-270. My wands were downgraded to Improved Ardor, which does not make a noticeable difference and is no longer worth the inventory slots and clicky management.
Have you even considered what effect the changes would have on a heroic divine that chooses not to take the Empower Healing feat? Melee specced divines were hard enough to build before (and biased against in PuGs), so why force them to take an extra feat that drains their shallower sp-pool faster?
Is that seriously the answer? At least you've acknowledge you've made such a huge mistake in this. I know you didn't say it, but we all know from the fact that you posted any of this at all, and constantly defend your position, that the game must be slowly dying right now, and of all the bugs, game breaking changes, and lack of the new raid, this is probably the biggest reason. That's just sad.
1) Go back to the old system.
2) Make all spells react exactly how they should. No modifying, changing %, or anything else. Spell Power 48 gives 48% more of everything. Everything. In the end you won't have complaints, and, though not a programmer, I fail to see how this could be more complicated. I just see bug upon bug upon bug by doing it your way.
Lets be honest. We're mad enough that our former Greater Potency IV items, that were perfect for all our spells, now give Spell Power 48 and are pretty meaningless. That alone nerfed us.
But you're dropping more overpowered loot you say? That would cause problems if you don't change things you say?
Guess what. It was the choice to drop so much overpowered loot, NOT anything else, that caused all these problems (nightmares, anyone?). Now you know Monty Haul doesn't work. Stop THAT problem, and everything else will fix itself.
And finally, one of the BIGGEST problems here is that you devs feel that it is the DIVINES job to just heal. Most of us play this game because it is one of the few MMOs that, before this update, seemed not to pigeonhole use like that. Don't do that.
Heal should not have been reduced below its previous power. A Cleric or FvS should be able to cast a heal of the same effectiveness as they were before the update, with reasonable at-level gear. Level 12-20 divines are now seeing significant reductions in the power of their heal spell. Yes, I'm sure that level 21+ divines have access to better gear, but telling me that I can now heal for more in epic content on an epic character than I used to be able to on a heroic character doesn't mean anything. My level 8 wizard does more damage then my level 3 wizard...that's not hard to figure out, and shouldn't treated as a "bonus".
There is a HUGE problem with expecting divines to be casting single target cures, and boosting their spell power isn't going to fix that problem. The main problems are:
1. Cost: The single target cures, even with added spell power, will still be higher cost to cast than heal, because the cost of metamagics doesn't scale. It costs the same to maximize a level 9 spell as it does to maximize a level 1 spell. As a result, low level spells, like the single target cures, are very inefficient and costly.
2. Effectiveness: Single target cures do not heal stat damage, remove poison, or disease, all of which are very prevalent in the new content.
3. Spell slots: I do not have a single cure spell (other then 2 masses) loaded on my favoured soul because I have other spells loaded. Buffs, debuffs, crowd control, and other utility spells. You claim you're not trying to force us into a heal-bot role, yet you are trying to force us to water down our spell books with many different healing spells.
4. Hotbar slots: Even if I had room to load a single-target cure spell, I don't have room for it on my hotbar. Half of my main hotbar is already devoted to healing, with heal, mass heal, mass cure light, mass cure moderate scrolls, heal scrolls and renewal. Again I return to the argument that most divine casters are NOT healbots. My hotbars should not be junked up with 10 different cure spells and scrolls, else there will be no room for blade barrier, implode, soundburst, greater command, destruct, divine punishment, rebuke foe, etc, etc, etc. Divines fill many roles, and while healing is arguable one of the most important ones in a raid, it is not the only one. Forcing us to focus significnatly more time and resources just to be as effective at healing as we were before the update takes away from rest of our classes abilities, and pushes us more and more towards the healbot role.
I think this is extremely poor reasoning for the change to heal, and does not at all account for the variety and versatility of the divine classes. It results in only one thing, which is forcing these players to focus more on healing, and less on their other abilities.
~ Cheara : Raizertron : Pozitron : Higgz Bowtron : Illudium : Staphe Infection : Abraa Capocus ~
While I'll admit I have been enjoying reading The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire in my newly found free time, I still harbor some faint hopes that the divine caster classes in this game will be unborked, although that hopes diminishes by the day.
I would have expected this to be fully tested and calibrated as part of the spell power conversion done as part of Update 14.
Does the development team really lack the skills to benchmark the performance of key abilities on Update 13 and 14, and compute the necessary adjustments to spell power? If so, it would have been wise never to undertake the conversion to spell power, which has added nothing of value to this game.
Healing is not simply an ability used to restore HPs to player characters. It is an offensive capability against undead, and it should be calibrated as an offensive weapon against undead with a level of damage comparable to the 8k crits that sorcs are experiencing.
As an alternative, I would gladly take healing capabilities that are applicable only to (Self, Foe), which would allow melee toons to keep their enhanced AC.
So have fun.
If the spells need balancing, balance the spells themselves, not the way that Spellpower effects them.
Lower level Cure/Repair spells for Art/Clr/FvS/Sor/Wiz have the benefit that you can cast them even when out of SP due to the small SP recovery gained. The only time these spells should be used is when you want a small top up to health, or when you're out of SP.
Heal and Reconstruct should give the most benefit for single target Healing/Repairing bar none, unless you're going to start giving Casters Epic Spells.
On top of that, the probably don't want to.
Can you just make all healing spells personal only, so that healers are not overpowered?
While you are at it, make all buff spells personal only (Blur too, not just displacement)
Finally, can you make offensive spells personal only (Kind of like negative energy burst)
Officer of the Platinum Knights of Cannith, Founder of the guild GHOSTBANE of Cannith
Main - Death - Completionist and then some...
Other Characters - Holy, Leap, War, Optimusprime, Intimitank, Lanfear, Can, Afkbiobrb, Garagesale, Leverpuller and many more
Please fix the bugs before you change anything. Without changing any equipment or buffs my healing aura is constantly changing. This is the perfect test as it is using all possible healing power+metamagics so all the cures or heals should be impacted in proportion.
This happens every time.
1. Use healing aura and it ticks for 29
2. Die in a quest
4. Wait for death penalty to expire
5. Use healing aura and it ticks for 24
6. remove all my equipment and put it back on
7. Use healing aura and it ticks for 27
8. leave and re-enter quest or logout and back in
9. Use healing aura and it ticks for 29
The stacking effects of healing spell power are not being calculated correctly when things change. I can only assume other spell power problems are also occurring in a similar fashion.
P.S. Changing the rules so that spell power works differently for heals and cures is insanity. Do you not like yourselves DEVS?
Anything that doesn't kill us can still hurt really bad.
I'm still not a very good Cleric due to the attention fragmentation required to command one, commetfall a second, mass the party, top off the sponge of the day, and pay attention to the mob right up on me (One of the reasons the one I've got has a 2-splash monk, for training wheels). Between the crafting changes (was using kamas, so I had some extra spell-pen/dc/dps in the offhand depending on situation till I get some real gear) and the spellpower reworks, I've got to put myself in even more of a good mood before I consider breaking him out.
Could I focus purely on one aspect of one aspect (the heal side of casting)? Sure. Would I want to? No, not really.
Personal philosophy has always been that some things should be a given for a given class, so you can focus on other things, and bring more than one dimension to the party.
Now that may be one of your design sub-goals, and we're simply misinterpreting, but if so, it doesn't really feel like you're there yet.
Last edited by Scraap; 07-18-2012 at 12:05 PM.
Real life is a worse grind than any MMO.
Tirisha 25 FVS, Aierian 25 MNK, Girltank 18 FTR/ 2PALLY/5 EPIC, Seidra 25 SORC, Wikka 20 WIZ, Kylexi 20 PALLY, Stephony 20 Bard
I agree there has been an hp inflation and this does not complete balance the changes out, but to say divine healing overall has been kept constant is not correct by a long shot. The heal spell has nearly been kept constant, while heal mass got buffed overall.
And TWO, they've nerfed healing spells, but it is OK, because if you have xpac you can get a 30% amp item easily?
Healing amp is now a given on the gloves slot? Sure, lock the glove slot on every character that is a fvs/clr/barb/fighter/ranger/paladin/rogue/bard/druid/monk because they decided to single out healing spells as the ones that get the axe?
And THREE, if you were actually GEARED and had a way to buff mass heal, mass heal DID get nerfed as bad as heal did.
Devs have traditionally shown very little love towards divines, enough so that I personally have gotten used to it. I don't expect new toys with updates like arcanes or melees get.
I just find this attitude towards divines a little strange as they are what makes the pugging system possible...no pugs, no DDO...sure guild channel runs will go on after the pug scene dies but variety is the spice of life, and pugging is the soul of DDO. No divines-->no pugging--->max exodus--->dead ddo.
The only reason I can see to nerf healing is to sell more sp pots in the store. I just don't think potentially sacrificing the pug system for a few dollars is reasonable, logical or fair in anyway.
It's just a stupid buisness decision.
Skimmed the thread, gonna try and hit the major things that others didn't bring up.
level 20 Cleric, Superior Potency VI item (Torin's Choker) and Greater Arcane Lore (Green Blade). Radiant Servant II, Prayer of Life II, Prayer of Incredible Life II, Cleric Life Magic IV.
Level 24 Cleric/5 Exalted Angel, Devotion +102 item (Holy Symbol of Lolth) and Superior Healing Lore (Signet of the Shining Sun. Same enhancements. My radiant bursts are healing for less now than they were pre-xpac.
I feel like I need to take Empower Healing to stay a good raid healer, but doing so makes me a worse offensive spellcaster. Sorcerers don't have to take Empower Buffing to be good buffers in a raid situation. And Wizards get bonus feats out the wazoo.
Long story short, you've made raid healing far more difficult if you don't have Empower Healing, and running with Empowered Healing on gets mana-intensive fast.
My Favored Soul pre-XPAC:
Rahkir's Set Bonus (+5% crits, +50% damage on crits)
Alchemical Superior Devotion IX (50% more healing)
Favored Soul Life Magic IV, crit lines to II
My Favored Soul just after XPAC:
Rahkir's Set Bonus
Devotion +90 (Which is really Devotion +45 for Heal spells)
As you can see, I lost 5% effectiveness on my Heal Spells. This means that my healing effectiveness got worse, while incoming damage and player HP almost doubled. Even now after some gear grinding, I have the Holy Symbol of Lolth for +51 Devotion to Heal spells and Superior Healing Lore from the cleric ring, and I'm 1% more effective at healing while melees have gained 50% more hp.
I know this will probably be ignored, but please. Listen to the gear people have now, and actually send out people to gather data on healing in raid situations. Even if all you do is ask people to tape their raid runs from a healer's perspective and send them in, I think you need a driver's seat view of what's happened in healing.
Honkin * Diaari * Bazongas
Currently my Cleric is wearing the Gauntlets of Eternity which only carries a +60 to Spell Power, but it also has other attributes on it that I like. I could give up these Gauntlets for something else, but it would have to be something with better other attributes. For now I will be healing below my potential.
When asked, "What are we going to do tonight?" the only acceptable answer is, "The same thing we do every night...Try to take over the world!"
Sarlona - Auralana, Orcalana, JuicyLucy, Aquani, Wistia, Aurabella, Guildy, etc. If you see the last name Hather, it's either me or the hubby.
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