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  1. #81
    Community Member varusso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auralana7214 View Post
    If your reconstruct is not working as well as before the update (again, taking current bugs into consideration), that would be a valid point to post in this thread.
    You see, here is the fatal flaw. Its NOT working as well as pre-u14 because of one simple thing:

    Pre-u14, WF were IMMUNE to Pois and Dis, which also effectively made them immune to the stat damage and other ill effects that result from them. Since that was the case, Recon did not NEED those removal benefits like its divine counterpart (Heal) did for fleshies.

    Now that they are no longer immune (even WITH items), the Recon spell should be given some of the same effects, since it is obviously the "WF Heal". It SHOULD be balanced against the fleshie Heal. If it is not supposed to have the extra benefit from spell power (just like Heal) then it should also act like Heal in other respects.

    Before u14, Recon's role was simple -- just provide some undiminished healing power, because WF's natural immunities already took care of most of the negative effects that Heal removes.

    In short, Recon is no longer functioning as it should, because what it "should do" has changed with u14, due to a fundamental change to the race it is designed for. Because of the changes to WF WITH u14, the Recon spell no longer fills its entire role. At a minimum, it should remove pois/dis and stat damage just like Heal.

    Beyond that I would personally like to see it address some of the WF-specific conditions like the Rusty stun.

    Short version: Recon and Heal are counterparts. They should have similar effects, based on the toons they are designed to be used on. Since WF lost their immunities, the "WF Heal" should be made to pick up the slack.

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    There's plenty of wearable radiance and impact and devotion gear.

    There's new item called the Holy Symbol of Lolth... You should look into it. It takes care of your light spells and blade barriers. Slot devotion on your helm, and you'll never have to switch weapons again...

    And yes, that means you're going to have to shuffle your inventory... Don't tell me that's not fair, because EVERYONE has to shuffle their inventory set-up when new levels and new gear comes out.
    I agree that it's perfectly understandable that people shuffle gear to take advantage of all the stuff that's BETTER. But we're talking about shuffling simply to reduce the degree to which output is falling behind. Everything is increasing in magnitude this update -- hit points, incoming damage, damage of arcanes is up, damage of melees is up...

    And we keep talking about how divines should expect to have to grind out new stuff to tread water.

    I have the holy symbol of Lolth -- great item, and with it my blade barrier that, on those occasions where mobs in the new content actually run through it and don't evade, does 8% more damage on average, than pre-update. I have a devotion 96 weapon, that to wield eliminates any melee ability, and heal hits for 2% more damage than pre-update. I could grind out some epic items to slot toughness and heavy fort elsewhere, and put a devotion 90 item on my head, but heal would be flat versus pre-update. Actually less, if you count the clickies I used pre-update.
    Last edited by justagame; 07-18-2012 at 04:16 PM.

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadFloyd View Post
    I did not make it through the entire thread, but here are some answers for now:

    8. I went to all the time and effort to make my Alchemical Dev IX shields because of the increasing level cap, hp, and damage I knew was coming in U14. So, what now? What do we do to compensate for the loss of healing?

    How has it actually affected gameplay? How much of a healing loss have you experienced? Either healing is not difficult (in which little further change is needed) or some adjustments on our part is necessary.
    I spend more time healing than I should. Healing isn't hard on Epic Normal, but it can be a pain on EE.
    I built a specific way so that I could spend less time healing and more time doing other things with my healer. (Mostly piking, I'm a heal piker.. what can I say)
    That advantage was taken away.
    Yes there are plenty of increases from EDs and levels that allow me to make up for the loss.
    I built a Dev9 item so I always had it in my off hand and could scroll/swap/etc without needing to worry. Now to maximize efficiency I have to put the shield down and pick up a stick in my off hand. So I sacrifice AC/PRR.
    I haven't seen 100+ devotion items in slots other than weapons.
    All I want is to break even with my pre u14 numbers. Given the current state Alch Dev9 shields are weak.
    Yes there are clear ways to gear around it, swap items, etc, but that makes healing harder(more micromanagement).

    So, in EE everything is harder... can't tell that apart from the awesomeness of the challenge or the nerf to heal.

    Other difficulties though the challenge isn't in the numbers it is in the micromanagement.
    I used to eat Chinese takeout with chopsticks while healing a raid. Now I have to put my chopsticks down and click more **** more often. This is compounded with gear swap lag. And Don't tell me to use a Fork.. forks are for newbs!.
    The micromanagement is annoying and starting to make my healer less fun. I'm sure you will say, I choose to micromanage and be more efficient, but when playing a healer and trying to be included the expectations are sometimes high.


    I don't know if you've looked into it MF, but gear swapping causes lag/can lag out mid raid. This has screwed me plenty of times when trying to swap scrolls, or stone to flesh someone.
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  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    Serious question. Are you having any problems keeping your groups healed even healing below your max potential?
    Two-part answer:

    1. I outlined in my first post some experiences. While not an elite player, I consider myself an experienced healer, have solo-healed raids, raids on elite, and the like. Reasonably well equipped, and have experimented with lots of healing strategies and builds. Currently have an evoker FVS and melee FVS, both with maxed life magic lines and decent devotion weapons. I now go into raids on a FVS with melees in the 800 to 900 and above range, and yes, there's almost always a few stragglers not getting to full. I see low individual health bars, hit heal, and still need to hit them with a scroll afterwards. Some of this is the WF healing amp bug, some is that the masses with new huge hp totals haven't discovered the need for healing amp, but it just feels less potent.

    What it meant in practice was this: Even more attention to cooldowns than ever before. Less margin for error, because often a second follow-up heal (spell or scroll) was needed. Less time and SP for offensive casting. An overall less enjoyable experience.

    2. Is your question even the right one? We can do whatever we want to divines, but as long as they can heal, we're all good? Overall potency of the class doesn't matter? Ability to enhance your own primary abilities like every other class seems to be doing? We could cut sorceror damage tomorrow by 20%, cut out some of the draconic epic destiny abilities, and I guarantee you, they will still be nuking, killing machines. That doesn't mean it's the right thing to do.

  5. #85
    Community Member Vormaerin's Avatar
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    The healing changes are complicated because they are not all entirely under the caster's control.

    This isn't entirely a matter of healer outputs being the same/better/worse. (btw, the reason MadFloyd keeps saying "healer" is because the changes affect more than just divines. It affects anyone who is trying to heal... bards, artificers, and even those melees with healing capability). Heal at lvl 12 is definitely down. But the ability of people in the party to stop melee damage ought to be up quite a bit in that range.

    For me, the damage hitting my party members was way up initially because they were also geared totally wrong for the changes to defense. Once they made changes to get some PRR/Dodge/AC, realized Blur and Incorporeal stack now, and so on, that side of the problem has significantly diminished.

    Right now, my cleric seems about the same for healing, my bard is better, and my paladin much worse. The bard is the only one in epic content at the moment, for what that's worth. This is relative to how well I healed content before the patch, not points per spell maths analysis.
    Last edited by Vormaerin; 07-18-2012 at 04:26 PM.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    WF Healer's Friend is bugged.

    That's why you couldn't keep him up. Not because of the healing changes. They really need to fix that.
    Even if WF HF was not bugged, that is still ~200 pts per heal on an 800hp character.

    Even if that WF had 30%/20%/10% amp that is still ~350-400pts on an 800hp character.

    Mass heal still works fine. Self heals work fine if you are not warforged and have amp gear and empower heal.

    You've clearly made up your mind on the situation. I'm a bit less fanboish than I used to be given their recent track record.

    Personally, I feel it is a huge shot to the groin getting healing spells and light spells and blade barrier nerfed...while mobs hit harder, players have 30-50% more hp and arcanes/melees both got massive buffs.

    Add to that the fact that this 50% spell power BS was done undercover, unannounced and they IGNORED the dozens of threads asking about it...well they handled this whole thing pretty poorly.

    I don't like getting punched in the groin. Maybe you do, but I don't like it.

  7. #87
    Community Member taurean430's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by justagame View Post
    Heal amp is great for helping how much you get healed for yourself, not others. While I agree it SHOULD be in every build, it isn't. Just like heavy fort isn't. Just like a lot of things aren't. And healing amp doesn't do squat unless you can guarantee that everyone you are healing has that uber healing amp. Your healing burden is determined by the hardest to heal party member, not the best equipped.

    Everything got bigger this update. The damage that mobs deal has gone up. The hit points that players have has gone way up. The damage that our fellow party members do (melee and arcane spell damage) has gone up significantly. Everyone else's epic equipment and abilities are to do more than they are doing now. To get more potent. Except for divines. Now, the best devotion items are needed to make up for what heal lost, and EA healing boosts offer only a little bit more. Adding a meaningless boost to spells that remain poor second choices doesn't help. That's like nerfing khopeshes, but changing the base damage of daggers from 1d4 to 1d6 to compensate.

    I am underwhelmed by the divine experience this update:

    - The aforementioned heal issue, in which very few seem to understand that changing a $1.00 into $1.10 isn't a benefit when the price of bread just went up by half.

    - The complete lack of superior lore items for light and untyped damage. Only healing. (Again, reinforcing the healbot impression many of us have)

    - The focus of the epic destiny on complicated stacking to get unpredictable healing/light boosts, based on stack sizes that in many cases won't be approached in the course of normal questing.

    - An offensive caster ED that only benefits light damage spells and healing, when the class has only one relevant light damage spell, mainly used on bosses. No level-appropriate ray spell. No AOE spell. No benefits whatsoever to other divine damage spells (untyped, fire, etc.).

    - The one epic ray SLA for divines (Avenging Light) was cut in half during U14.1, with no comment. Meanwhile arcanes are getting elemental AOE damage options that do damage in the thousands.

    - Bonuses that are good only against undead and evil outsiders. Great, these EPIC abilities should come in handy next time I'm levelling through Necro and the Vale.

    - A raid with 12 unique weapons as potential loot, and not a single one of them a good fit for a divine caster.

    At this point, I'm putting my evoker on the shelf, unless I decide to TR into a sorc. I have pretty good gear too, but in this new world, mobs don't move through BB, you need umpteen past lives to have acceptable spell pen (and sadly, implosion still requires a SR check despite the description), so I cast, cast, cast again, then finally beat down stuff with a longsword.

    I am stil playing the helf melee FVS though. I did get some good healing amp, and that was good enough to heal ME. (Again, it takes ML 21-22 epic items just to heal myself as well as pre-update). But I've tried pugs, tried raiding, and I'm done doing that for now. I just run with guildies now, or solo. I've had it with having to actually drink pots in raids I long ago mastered, just because everyone's hit points and damage taken went way up, and my healing output didn't.
    Agreed.

    I've also moved to soloing or helping select friends/guildies only with my Clr/Fvs.

    Seriously...

    Going from 850ish high crit on blade barrier to 300ish is insulting.
    An SlA that does little to no damage compared to sla's from any other class that gets them.
    Specials that only affect undead/evil outsiders, which are nice but of extremely limited use.
    Overall damage down compared to pre-xpac... way down.


    The expectations placed upon running any type of divine caster added to all this makes it completely unenjoyable to run one in a group setting. It's clear that just as pre xpac the majority of melee builds did not invest in ac/healing amp/fortification/hp sometimes we see that now just as often. Doesn't matter how many things one makes easily available to the masses. They simply won't use them, and you can't make them. So the overall impression I'm left with is that someone on the dev team thinks the sole purpose of a divine caster is to spam cures and heal spells from quest begging to end without exception. And that's not how I play my divine casters. Makes more sense to avoid grouping entirely rather than be pigeonholed.

    I'll still get them leveled just fine, with known entities.
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  8. #88
    Community Member Bronko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by morticianjohn View Post
    You know the range of boosts that are availible in the game for example

    maximize, empower, empower healing, and spellpower from items and enhancements. With that knowledge and the additive system of spellpower it would be easier to balance the spells at the base. Currently the way spellpower works this is what could happen going forward.

    Lets say that right now the average lvl 20 healer has 100 devotion spellpower from items. Currently you've worked to balance the heal spell against the cure spells (meaning a slight buff to the cures and a slight nerf to the heal spell). In some future update the level cap goes up to 30 and ML 30 spellpower items grant 200 devotion spellpower. Cure moderate wounds gets 115% but heal get 50% spellpower. Therefore as gear gets better and levels go up Heal becomes worse and worse compared to cures eventually requiring it to be rebalanced to remain effective.

    If you were to balance the spells at the base they would stay relative to each other in power no matter what you add to the game in terms of spellpower, feats, enhancements etc...

    In addition it would be easier for the players to figure out the effectiveness of each spell because even if you list the % of spellpower in the description (as you've said you want to do in some future update) they still have to take their overall spellpower subtract the spellpower they get from feats and then multiply by whatever % you give them to get the correct spellpower. Do this for 10-20 different spells with varying spellpower and you've essentially turned something very simple (spellpower) into one of the most complicated aspects of the game.

    In otherwords easier for the devs to balance (short term) but much less intuitive and more difficult for the players than balancing at the base.
    Well put. +1.
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  9. #89
    Community Member Tirisha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auralana7214 View Post
    For example, my FVS wears a helm, since she was not dependent on the Minos, that is +90 to Devotion. I found it on the Auction House. Maybe I was just lucky that day?
    Neat, wonder if those comin in not gimped versions though. like the 114 you can fairly easily get on a stick.

    Also wondering why the H I haven't seen one.
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  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by nick_robinsonchia View Post
    This is not correct. I have THE best gear possible and my numbers are substantially smaller post update. Please check again.
    /signed

    I have to say that I completely agree with this. My avenging light (epic ability, mind you) was hitting on average 240, 400 on a stun hit. Now, post update, I'm lucky to hit 250 on a crit normal, and 400 is unreachable in all but the most extreme circumstances. Whiskey Tango Foxtrot. The damage on light spells have been downgraded.

    In regards to heal/mass heal, as a cleric who has the full alchemist set, the new superior lore ring, devotion 4, prayer of life, etc. etc... I'm still not hitting for enough to fill someone up. What baffles me is the absolute and blatant disregard you folks are exhibiting for your playerbase, specifically the clerics in the mix. I want to make this perfectly clear:

    Single-target Cure spells are useless at higher levels. Period. But instead of making them CHEAPER to cast and more effective, bringing them more in line with the original Heal spell (pre-update), you are bringing Heal DOWN. How does this make any sense? Not only with you nerfing poison immunity (so your precious drow can actually poison us now), you are tinkering with the mechanic that keeps people alive. If you are fighting Harry, you need to throw heal, not cures to get rid of the now-non-resistable poison.

    If it sounds like I'm going off on a rant, it's because I am. I'm angry as heck. I am one of those clerics that's getting nerfed because you feel it's "fair" to upgrade people to have 12-1500 hp, but downgrade Heal. You should be UPGRADING Heal to enable those of us keeping people alive to do our jobs. I want you to name one PLAYER who has complained about getting too much healing.

    Don't throw it back in our faces saying, "Get better gear." I have pretty much the best gear I can get, with the augmentations maxed out. I used to be able to heal a person to full with one throw of the Heal spell. Now it's 2. That effectively halves my effectiveness. So, if you are serious about actually listening to the playerbase, how about, "Stop messing with the healing system?" Or perhaps, "Put healing back the way it was?" We never asked you to tinker with it, and we certainly don't appreciate you toying with it now. You messed with something that wasn't broken. Put it back!

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by taurean430 View Post
    Agreed.

    I've also moved to soloing or helping select friends/guildies only with my Clr/Fvs.

    Seriously...

    Going from 850ish high crit on blade barrier to 300ish is insulting.
    An SlA that does little to no damage compared to sla's from any other class that gets them.
    Specials that only affect undead/evil outsiders, which are nice but of extremely limited use.
    Overall damage down compared to pre-xpac... way down.


    The expectations placed upon running any type of divine caster added to all this makes it completely unenjoyable to run one in a group setting. It's clear that just as pre xpac the majority of melee builds did not invest in ac/healing amp/fortification/hp sometimes we see that now just as often. Doesn't matter how many things one makes easily available to the masses. They simply won't use them, and you can't make them. So the overall impression I'm left with is that someone on the dev team thinks the sole purpose of a divine caster is to spam cures and heal spells from quest begging to end without exception. And that's not how I play my divine casters. Makes more sense to avoid grouping entirely rather than be pigeonholed.

    I'll still get them leveled just fine, with known entities.
    Double post, but +1. I have to wonder how many devs were thinking about ways to force us to buy spell pots out of the DDO store. Conspiracy theorists unite!

  12. #92
    Community Member EatSmart's Avatar
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    Mad/Feather, is there any chance of divines (all of them) being able to get the spellcasting impliment bonus from items that have the faith based traits (eternal faith, sacred, hallowed, etc)? Possibly with a tweak to having "Required: Religious Lore, UMD:0" added to those items to keep them out of arcane hands. With the exception of Goldmoon in Dragonlance, there really arent a lot of examples of divines channeling their spells through staves. (And that's debatably just a dressed up staff of healing rather than a spell focus, as the kender was able to use it successfully) I think this would both help with the practicalities of how divines are played [They either swing a weapon, or have a scroll in their main hand, depending on the player/raid] and is more in keeping with the lore of DnD.

    Is there any news on when (if ever) someone is going to look at old named items and check for silliness? The example that springs to the forefront of my mind is the Epic Chainmail Coif, which was formerly the granddaddy of battle-hjealer gear with its very rare bonus to Heal Mass. It's really quite a poor item now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Torc View Post
    We like the fact it’s a choice as suppose to, “hell we just kill yonder dragon cause we’re OP”.
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    I say we take off and nerf the whole game from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    This. Good post.
    No, it wasn't. It offers at best a poor solution that can only be implemented for a few folks.

    I hope the devs read this thread carefully. There have been some really good suggestions on how to address these issues.

  14. #94
    Community Member susiedupfer's Avatar
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    Default OK, since you asked...

    I did not keep records of how much I healed for pre-U14, you are going to have to accept that my ranges are the best I can give you. On my clerics, I used Alchemical Shield with Dev IX and Sup Healing Lore. I was mass healing for 650-850ish on non-monk, non-heal amped to the max toons. Crits were huge and hit often. My mass heals now hit for 450-650ish on the same people with dev +102.

    What I lost: the ability to shield block, the ability to use a scroll in main hand while retaining my devotion item in off hand, the AC(which just finally became pertinent to me), the ability to use my downtime between heals to DoT or to heal outliers, SP efficiency to do something other than hjeal.

    This is JUST my answer to your question. But, if I may add other concerns I have?

    1)New cleric gear requires change of armor. I lose hp and AC. On top of loss of AC from losing shield, this requires more self-healing. Which leads to less time/sp to heal others or do any offensive casting.

    2)Increasing efficacy of cures does not help the sp/spell ratio whatsoever. Cures are still inefficient compared to heal. They also require multiple casts to achieve the same effect. This as a solution is not workable.

    3)When I logged on yesterday afternoon at the airship portal in the harbor(Orien server), before I could walk to the AH(in the harbor)yesterday, I got 4 tells asking me to heal 4 different quests/raids. It may have been more had I not gone anonymous. This was before I could actually talk to the auctioneer.

    These things are also affecting my gameplay.

    Thank you all Devs! For taking the time and making an effort to understand what is going on with us. I am well aware that you are not paid to read and respond to the forums, nor are we entitled to explanations or changes, so I really do appreciate your doing this.
    Last edited by susiedupfer; 07-19-2012 at 09:51 AM.
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  15. #95
    Community Member varusso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EatSmart View Post
    Mad/Feather, is there any chance of divines (all of them) being able to get the spellcasting impliment bonus from items that have the faith based traits (eternal faith, sacred, hallowed, etc)? Possibly with a tweak to having "Required: Religious Lore, UMD:0" added to those items to keep them out of arcane hands. .
    This is actually a good point and a good idea, although limiting it to those specific items causes some problems for FVS (and healer bards), as those items are otherwise completely useless to them. They would be giving up a much more valuable slot just for an implement bonus. And bards dont get the Religious Lore, afaik.

    Instead, do this: shields with Enhancement bonuses that also have a casting booster on them should get the implement bonus. Highest applies, just like with 2 scepters. Since the divine is going to have a scroll in main hand, they are going to have either a one-handed casting wpn or a shield in the other -- this way they could get their bonus either way. And no need to try and keep that out of the arcanes' choices.

  16. #96
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    Default About the proposed Sacred Bonus thing...

    The issue would be that everyone can access Unyielding Sentinel ED, so they can get Turn Undead. I am not so sure that your idea would integrate well into this. Maybe I am misunderstanding.
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    Quote Originally Posted by varusso View Post
    This is actually a good point and a good idea, although limiting it to those specific items causes some problems for FVS (and healer bards), as those items are otherwise completely useless to them. They would be giving up a much more valuable slot just for an implement bonus. And bards dont get the Religious Lore, afaik.

    Instead, do this: shields with Enhancement bonuses that also have a casting booster on them should get the implement bonus. Highest applies, just like with 2 scepters. Since the divine is going to have a scroll in main hand, they are going to have either a one-handed casting wpn or a shield in the other -- this way they could get their bonus either way. And no need to try and keep that out of the arcanes' choices.
    Shields should not be the only answer, nor should scepters. Keep in mind, you have clonks out there, including yours truly.

  18. #98
    Community Member varusso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carkolda View Post
    Shields should not be the only answer, nor should scepters. Keep in mind, you have clonks out there, including yours truly.
    Agreed -- anything that can fit in either hand (or both) that has a casting boost on it should count as a casting implement and have enhancements applied accordingly. Period.

  19. #99
    Community Member Chette's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by justagame View Post
    I am underwhelmed by the divine experience this update:

    - The aforementioned heal issue, in which very few seem to understand that changing a $1.00 into $1.10 isn't a benefit when the price of bread just went up by half.

    - The complete lack of superior lore items for light and untyped damage. Only healing. (Again, reinforcing the healbot impression many of us have)

    - The focus of the epic destiny on complicated stacking to get unpredictable healing/light boosts, based on stack sizes that in many cases won't be approached in the course of normal questing.

    - An offensive caster ED that only benefits light damage spells and healing, when the class has only one relevant light damage spell, mainly used on bosses. No level-appropriate ray spell. No AOE spell. No benefits whatsoever to other divine damage spells (untyped, fire, etc.).

    - The one epic ray SLA for divines (Avenging Light) was cut in half during U14.1, with no comment. Meanwhile arcanes are getting elemental AOE damage options that do damage in the thousands.

    - Bonuses that are good only against undead and evil outsiders. Great, these EPIC abilities should come in handy next time I'm levelling through Necro and the Vale.

    - A raid with 12 unique weapons as potential loot, and not a single one of them a good fit for a divine caster.
    These are all excellent posts, for which I would love to see some dev comment.

    My main is a high DC offensive casting FvS. I play her as part of a duo with my husband, who plays a warforged sorcerer. We used to be fairly balanced, I had far superior insta-kills and good crowd control, he focused mainly on AOE mass damage. We still play in this manner, but his damage on his sorc just about doubled with the epic destinies, and much of it he can do with little spell point cost. My power may not have gone down as a FvS, since I can equip new items to make up for changes, but my effectiveness has been significantly reduced, with the increase in power of all the other classes.
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  20. #100
    Community Member barryman5000's Avatar
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    Default Heh

    Quote Originally Posted by varusso View Post
    You see, here is the fatal flaw. Its NOT working as well as pre-u14 because of one simple thing:

    Pre-u14, WF were IMMUNE to Pois and Dis, which also effectively made them immune to the stat damage and other ill effects that result from them. Since that was the case, Recon did not NEED those removal benefits like its divine counterpart (Heal) did for fleshies.

    Now that they are no longer immune (even WITH items), the Recon spell should be given some of the same effects, since it is obviously the "WF Heal". It SHOULD be balanced against the fleshie Heal. If it is not supposed to have the extra benefit from spell power (just like Heal) then it should also act like Heal in other respects.

    Before u14, Recon's role was simple -- just provide some undiminished healing power, because WF's natural immunities already took care of most of the negative effects that Heal removes.

    In short, Recon is no longer functioning as it should, because what it "should do" has changed with u14, due to a fundamental change to the race it is designed for. Because of the changes to WF WITH u14, the Recon spell no longer fills its entire role. At a minimum, it should remove pois/dis and stat damage just like Heal.

    Beyond that I would personally like to see it address some of the WF-specific conditions like the Rusty stun.

    Short version: Recon and Heal are counterparts. They should have similar effects, based on the toons they are designed to be used on. Since WF lost their immunities, the "WF Heal" should be made to pick up the slack.
    Pure posion and disease immunity are gone. Oh well.

    Warforged are still immune to Sleep, Hold Person, Energy Drained, Nauseated, Exhausted, Paralyzed effects and get a built in proof against disease and poison +10. They also are immune to stat damage from diseases except those that affect wood or metal.

    The above is not taking into account current game bugs.

    So put on a deathblock item and cast your greater heroism and you are good to go. Get poison'd or disease'd and have a horrible fortitude save? Drink a pot. You are now awesome.

    Reconstruct is only for wf arcanes. Any melee wf is going to invest in healing amp to hit 100% heal amp.

    Reconstruct is not heal. Reconstruct is still overpowered. Any arcane that can fly through a quest with an uninterruptable spell that brings him from 1hp to 400hp with a little investment is op.

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