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Thread: Nightmare Items

  1. #41
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    Everything ddo has been doing has been making it easier for players to have access to high level/epic content. With this in mind the nerf of terror makes no sense. Terror was not an OP weapon. It rarely proc'd in epic/hard quests. It rarely proc'd on any amarath over normal level. It did not proc in House C. Terror did allow people to have FUN with a weapon and be a contributing part of a group in lower end epic content and high level heroic content. What is wrong with that? Don't tell people to get an esos. 95% of the servers melee population can't use them or don't have the time or inclination to spend the hundreds of hours required to get one. And it's ridiculous the game is still based upon that one weapon. What is wrong with having variety and choices?

    It's very discouraging that turbine continues to make melee builds feel second rate and covertly encourages hero ball type of gaming where parties are dominated by a couple casters and everyone else kind of tags along with the priveledge to bask in their awesomeness. For shame.

  2. #42
    Community Member akash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uhtred_Stark View Post
    Terror was not an OP weapon. It rarely proc'd in epic/hard quests. It rarely proc'd on any amarath over normal level. It did not proc in House C.
    Do you have improved critical slashing feat? It procs nearly 25-30% of the time even in epics. Specially in the hand of a Kensai fighter it used to proc so much that other people often misunderstood it as a bug, and posted in the forums.

  3. #43
    Community Member SilkofDrasnia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexp80 View Post
    If the count kill is your problem, feel free to whine about the change.

    Any decent dps don't use nightmare weapons.



    Quote Originally Posted by Dexxaan View Post
    QFT


    Insta-Kill chance on a Natural 20 is a fair trade off.

    Get a real weapon, Craft a real weapon or grind for one..... "enough with the easy button questing".


    .
    This appears to me that you agree with Alexp80 that terror was not really a "decent dps weapon" as such why was it nerfed?

    Shouldn't it have been esos and eaga that was nerfed ? I mean if your really tired of "easy button questing" lets by all means nerf that esos and eaga.

    Not seeing the logic in nerfing something that was not that useful in the new higher difficulty epics.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    Insulting the development team is not allowed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jendrak
    Somebody should definitely explain to Turbine that when they roll up a new GM that INT is not dump stat.

  4. #44
    Community Member akash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkofDrasnia View Post
    This appears to me that you agree with Alexp80 that terror was not really a "decent dps weapon" as such why was it nerfed?

    Shouldn't it have been esos and eaga that was nerfed ? I mean if your really tired of "easy button questing" lets by all means nerf that esos and eaga.

    Not seeing the logic in nerfing something that was not that useful in the new higher difficulty epics.
    It might heard harsh to listen but it's true that none of the good DPS who used to run old epics in everyday basis, will ever say anything favourable about Terror. It took me 40+ old epic runs just to make my eFang, 50+ old epic runs to make eAGA, I still couldn't make eSOS. DDO Gods know how many more times I have to try for that. On the other hand a newly created fresh toon starting in vetII at level 7, stoned to 16 at level 8, and doing IQ quests 3 times can get him/her a Terror. Or even more easily a f2p without purchasing any content can get it from AH in really cheap price. These PH weapons insta kills mobs here and there, and the wielder places him/herself on top of the kill list no matter how new or how gimp it's, and you call this fair? I don't think there is any balance here, so IMHO whatever the DEVs done is done for good specially in this matter. Peace.

  5. #45
    Community Member Dexxaan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by akash View Post
    It might heard harsh to listen but it's true that none of the good DPS who used to run old epics in everyday basis, will ever say anything favourable about Terror. It took me 40+ old epic runs just to make my eFang, 50+ old epic runs to make eAGA, I still couldn't make eSOS. DDO Gods know how many more times I have to try for that. On the other hand a newly created fresh toon starting in vetII at level 7, stoned to 16 at level 8, and doing IQ quests 3 times can get him/her a Terror. Or even more easily a f2p without purchasing any content can get it from AH in really cheap price. These PH weapons insta kills mobs here and there, and the wielder places him/herself on top of the kill list no matter how new or how gimp it's, and you call this fair? I don't think there is any balance here, so IMHO whatever the DEVs done is done for good specially in this matter. Peace.
    Many thanks for explaining with undeniable clarity the reasons why a Terror Weapon and the Rewards for a Grind (8+ months in my casde to get a SEAL for the SOS, not shard) to drop for me.

    Had you not done such a good job, I'd probably get a forum warning again due to my intolerance for stupidity and lack of vision.


    Just glad I didnt have to point out any of those traits.


    +1 Rep for you.

    .
    Last edited by Dexxaan; 07-13-2012 at 09:47 AM.
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  6. #46
    Community Member elraido's Avatar
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    The thing was, it was a decent option compaired to straight DPS. I have noticed that they have changed basically every weapon where an effect happens on a crit that isn't straight damage or helps the user. Smiters, Disruption, Banishers, Stat damagers and now Nightmares. Heck, they even changed crippling items so they wouldn't work on rednames. Those weapons were used by melee's that weren't straight DPS toons so they could contribute to the party. Now most of those weapons are vendor trash.

    On my main toon, I have been using the same weapon (efang) since it came out. It is the only weapon I use. Why? Look at my other options. I can go get an eSoS. Like I have said before, waaaaay too difficult to obtain between everyone and their mother wanting one and the ing being rare to pull. Or I can use other vendor trash items. At least I had a little bit of variety with nightmare scimitar for two weeks.

    I didn't even use it all the time. Especially in the new stuff. It didn't work on spiders. It didn't work well on any difficulty over normal. It had a very high level modifier to use it so you couldn't even play with one until you hit level 20 unless you farmed a terror. And personally, I tried to farm a new one and it never came up on my list....so I only have the one that I pulled when the mod came out.

    I just don't understand why they didn't change the save of the item. Why did they have to go and change how it worked? When Terror was first released, no one used it!!!! Why? Because the mobs saved against it all the time. Then they bumped up the save and mobs were dying from it left and right. Why not put the save in the middle between those two numbers? It seems like it would have been the logical thing to do. It would have been a fairly ninja nerf that most people wouldn't have paid much attention to until testing was done. Then they wouldn't have the huge uproar they have now.
    Last edited by elraido; 07-13-2012 at 11:59 AM.
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  7. #47
    Community Member SilkofDrasnia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by akash View Post
    It might heard harsh to listen but it's true that none of the good DPS who used to run old epics in everyday basis, will ever say anything favourable about Terror. It took me 40+ old epic runs just to make my eFang, 50+ old epic runs to make eAGA, I still couldn't make eSOS. DDO Gods know how many more times I have to try for that. On the other hand a newly created fresh toon starting in vetII at level 7, stoned to 16 at level 8, and doing IQ quests 3 times can get him/her a Terror. Or even more easily a f2p without purchasing any content can get it from AH in really cheap price. These PH weapons insta kills mobs here and there, and the wielder places him/herself on top of the kill list no matter how new or how gimp it's, and you call this fair? I don't think there is any balance here, so IMHO whatever the DEVs done is done for good specially in this matter. Peace.
    Fair lol don't make me laugh, are you aware of this new thing called update 14 ? Much of the new gear is comparable to some old epic gear i have, point is the terror was a good weapon for new players running epic until they could get that nice esos, eaga or efang etc .

    Terror was nerfed because Feather of S. decided to stick nightmare on a bunch random loot gen weapons, i mean a raid weapon from the new raid has been nerfed already and it's barely out, and really who looks at the kill list ?

    Again if balance is really is the main issue here esos and eaga need nerfing. Seriously it seems to me peeps are more annoyed that some of our old epic are not that uber anymore, take my eclaw set, it's sitting in the bank right now as it's not worth wearing unless i really need the xtra threat.

    http://ddowiki.com/page/Nightmare,_the_Fallen_Moon
    Last edited by SilkofDrasnia; 07-13-2012 at 09:19 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    Insulting the development team is not allowed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jendrak
    Somebody should definitely explain to Turbine that when they roll up a new GM that INT is not dump stat.

  8. #48
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    I'd like to say first off that Terror was by no means a guaranteed weapon. I understand that everybody and their brother pulls one on every third list. Yeah, not me. My Pally has done over 30 runs of Mindsunder, and has NEVER seen a Terror in the final list. He HAS a Terror, cause the very first time I ran it with some guildies, we got the final chest (the one with discs) and a Terror fell for a guildy, who passed it to me. He later said he will regret that forever, btw (until he hears about this nerf, he will be dancing on my grave now).

    Secondly, how many SP does it take a caster to instakill with a spell? Do you think most melees would gladly trade this many HP for that same kill, despite the fact that casters tend to have at least 4 times as many SP as most melees have HP? FoD costs 50, I believe? PK less than that, and Terror was just a situational PK. I'd trade 50 HP for every kill. And, please, let's not pretend that caster's SP bars are any more "limited" than a melee's HP bar. They are both replenished the same way for most people, expensive in-game items, or DDO store pots. Even if you are in a party with a Divine, he/she is simply trading their SP for your HP, and unless that makes sense (as in they feel your HP is more important to the party than their SP), they ain't gonna do it. If we are talking about hirelings, the caster is free to do what I do with my casters....get the ones with DVs.

    Maybe once nightmare got added to lootgen, it needed to be nerfed, but Terror, and the wraps? No, they weren't OP compared to casters, lol.

  9. #49
    Community Member akash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkofDrasnia View Post
    Fair lol don't make me laugh, are you aware of this new thing called update 14 ? Much of the new gear is comparable to some old epic gear i have, point is the terror was a good weapon for new players running epic until they could get that nice esos, eaga or efang etc .

    Terror was nerfed because Feather of S. decided to stick nightmare on a bunch random loot gen weapons, i mean a raid weapon from the new raid has been nerfed already and it's barely out, and really who looks at the kill list ?

    Again if balance is really is the main issue here esos and eaga need nerfing. Seriously it seems to me peeps are more annoyed that some of our old epic are not that uber anymore, take my eclaw set, it's sitting in the bank right now as it's not worth wearing unless i really need the xtra threat.

    http://ddowiki.com/page/Nightmare,_the_Fallen_Moon
    Yes I am aware of u14, and I believe we are talking here about weapons not the items moreover any u14 item (even vendor junks that fall in random chests) which has a ML 20+ is effectively an epic item, because according to the DEVs anything over level 20 is epic and not heroic. Now new players have even more options to play and grind items before they are prepared for epic hard or epic elite, because epic normal difficulty is specifically designed for them. Moreover, Cloudburst, and GS weapons were always a better DPS weapons than Terror, still they are. So new players should focus on some actual quests rather doing a quest only 3 times and get their "WMD" and bragging right. Nightmare The Fallen Moon still is a nice weapon specially on a pure build capstoned pally's hand (buffed by an artificer). If you think that old epics are not uber anymore, then why do you want nerfing on eAGA and eSOS? Those are at least nicely balanced unlike Terror. You and I probably don't think about kill counts but some people often brags about it like last time in an old PUG eDA I have seen a terror wielding first timer got the kill count above the CC (AM WF wizard) and start bragging about it in the party chat. In reality it was that CC's 44 DC hold monster spells because of which that melee could hit things easily.

  10. #50
    Community Member gerardIII's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ricky4 View Post
    I go into the new content, and if there is a caster (wiz, sorc) they wail, fod or do 4k+ damage to mobs. Melee and ranged have not a prayer to keep up without something like an insta kill of their own. The necro DC's are 52+ and the casters have no problem with wadding through the content; all other party members do is increase the mobs save chance.

    I for one certainly do not see a balance between casters and non-caster. Hence nerfing 'nightmare' makes no sense.

    Do ANY of the turbine people actually play DDO? I mean on a daily basis with other people to experience their own game? Not trying to be offensive, but it seems clear to me that this kind of action is a reaction to forum posts not actual usage of the game.

    I used a nightmare crossbow for a while but found that it was pretty mute in the new content due to the high saves and no way to increase the DC. BUT when it did work, it was fun if only for those few kills.
    Melees are portal beaters, they don't need Nightmare for that. j/k of course or maybe not

  11. #51
    Community Member SilkofDrasnia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by akash View Post
    Yes I am aware of u14, and I believe we are talking here about weapons not the items moreover any u14 item (even vendor junks that fall in random chests) which has a ML 20+ is effectively an epic item, because according to the DEVs anything over level 20 is epic and not heroic. Now new players have even more options to play and grind items before they are prepared for epic hard or epic elite, because epic normal difficulty is specifically designed for them. Moreover, Cloudburst, and GS weapons were always a better DPS weapons than Terror, still they are. So new players should focus on some actual quests rather doing a quest only 3 times and get their "WMD" and bragging right. Nightmare The Fallen Moon still is a nice weapon specially on a pure build capstoned pally's hand (buffed by an artificer). If you think that old epics are not uber anymore, then why do you want nerfing on eAGA and eSOS? Those are at least nicely balanced unlike Terror. You and I probably don't think about kill counts but some people often brags about it like last time in an old PUG eDA I have seen a terror wielding first timer got the kill count above the CC (AM WF wizard) and start bragging about it in the party chat. In reality it was that CC's 44 DC hold monster spells because of which that melee could hit things easily.
    I'm not the one that's wanting nerfs it's you all here saying yaa terror has been nerfed so my eaga or my esos is now even better etc. First some of u say terror wasn't a "decent dps weapon" but then say it was OP. Its the reasoning i'm questioning.


    My point is it's only newbs using the terror and anyone bragging about it in party chat will be known as one, the terror was not OP especially considering it doesn't work that great in higher difficulties.

    The argument you are using is contradictory first you all claim terror is not a "decent dps weapon" but then claim it's OP and needs to be nerfed. If we accept that reasoning then your "decent dps weapons" ie the esos efang and eaga need a nerf even morso than the terror .

    For the record i don't give a rats bottom about bragging rights, that's for newbs the only thing i care about is killing fast. Personally i don't want ANY nerfs to ANY weapon but if your gonna argue something at least don't contradict yourself.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    Insulting the development team is not allowed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jendrak
    Somebody should definitely explain to Turbine that when they roll up a new GM that INT is not dump stat.

  12. #52
    Community Member akash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkofDrasnia View Post
    I'm not the one that's wanting nerfs it's you all here saying yaa terror has been nerfed so my eaga or my esos is now even better etc. First some of u say terror wasn't a "decent dps weapon" but then say it was OP. Its the reasoning i'm questioning.


    My point is it's only newbs using the terror and anyone bragging about it in party chat will be known as one, the terror was not OP especially considering it doesn't work that great in higher difficulties.

    The argument you are using is contradictory first you all claim terror is not a "decent dps weapon" but then claim it's OP and needs to be nerfed. If we accept that reasoning then your "decent dps weapons" ie the esos efang and eaga need a nerf even morso than the terror .

    For the record i don't give a rats bottom about bragging rights, that's for newbs the only thing i care about is killing fast. Personally i don't want ANY nerfs to ANY weapon but if your gonna argue something at least don't contradict yourself.
    You probably misunderstood me and you also misunderstood what DPS means.

    DPS -> Damage Per Second.

    Now calculate the damage output of eAGA, eSOS, and eFang. Calculate the damage of Terror. After then Compare.

    Said epic weapons were always best DPS weapons than Terror, and they still are. I can't recall when did anyone call Terror a good DPS weapon? People may call it a cheat weapon, over powered trash killer, easy button game killer but I never heard anyone said it a "good DPS weapon".

    Moreover, previously newbies were so much dependent on Terror because they didn't have any other option to shine in old epic difficulties. Now after update 14 two easy epic difficulty settings (epic Normal and epic hard) are only designed for them, so I don't think dependency on Terror should be needed at all.

  13. #53
    Community Member SilkofDrasnia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by akash View Post
    You probably misunderstood me and you also misunderstood what DPS means.

    DPS -> Damage Per Second.

    Now calculate the damage output of eAGA, eSOS, and eFang. Calculate the damage of Terror. After then Compare.

    Said epic weapons were always best DPS weapons than Terror, and they still are. I can't recall when did anyone call Terror a good DPS weapon? People may call it a cheat weapon, over powered trash killer, easy button game killer but I never heard anyone said it a "good DPS weapon".

    Moreover, previously newbies were so much dependent on Terror because they didn't have any other option to shine in old epic difficulties. Now after update 14 two easy epic difficulty settings (epic Normal and epic hard) are only designed for them, so I don't think dependency on Terror should be needed at all.
    Hmm perhaps i might have misunderstood but i think you're the one that is not getting it. Dps =damage per second yes but an insta kill is also dps, its just not calculated the same.

    I never said peeps said it was a good dps weapon but on the contrary said YOU all seem to be claiming that it's such a good dps weapon it needs a nerf, if so then the real dps weapons need one even more so.

    Again i repeat terror itself was not OP it was a use till u get better option for newbs, again i say nightmare was nerfed not because of terror but because they put it on random weapons like nightmare scimmies that have a much higher crit range.

    What should have been nerfed was "nightmare on random loot" not an old and new named item.

    Any hoot i said my piece and will finish with this; if anyone running epic norms, wizzies included, are having trouble vs melees with a terror, when they have access to higher dc insta kills, then those arcanes have a much more serious problem. So do the eaga and esos users if the terror is giving them competition!
    Last edited by SilkofDrasnia; 07-13-2012 at 01:07 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    Insulting the development team is not allowed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jendrak
    Somebody should definitely explain to Turbine that when they roll up a new GM that INT is not dump stat.

  14. #54
    Community Member akash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkofDrasnia View Post
    Hmm perhaps i might have misunderstood but i think you're the one that is not getting it. Dps =damage per second yes but an insta kill is also dps, its just not calculated the same.

    I never said peeps said it was a good dps weapon but on the contrary said YOU all seem to be claiming that it's such a good dps weapon it needs a nerf, if so then the real dps weapons need one even more so.

    Again i repeat terror itself was not OP it was a use till u get better option for newbs, again i say nightmare was nerfed not because of terror but because they put it on random weapons like nightmare scimmies that have a much higher crit range.

    What should have been nerfed was "nightmare on random loot" not an old and new named item.

    Any hoot i said my piece and will finish with this; if anyone running epic norms, wizzies included, are having trouble vs melees with a terror, when they have access to higher dc insta kills, then those arcanes have a much more serious problem. So do the eaga and esos users if the terror is giving them competition!
    No offence intended but it's now pretty much clear to me that you got the entire concept wrong. Insta killing is no way DPS, moreover if you believe on that then you also brag about your kill counts. DPS comes in portal beating, boss killing, and nightmare weapons are useless on that regard. That reminds me I once declined a duel wielding litII khopesh user kensai fighter in old eDQ PUG LFM, unfortunately those were his only decent weapons besides Terror and he became so mad he told me that he tops the melee kill counts everywhere. I politely had to say him that it won't work there. Arcanes on trash, melees on boss, that's the way to go. That's the way it is.

  15. #55
    Community Member GrampaBill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by akash View Post
    Said epic weapons were always best DPS weapons than Terror, and they still are. I can't recall when did anyone call Terror a good DPS weapon?
    I always liked using it on the Ship Dummy, and it's a great weapon against the Crystal DR mobs in IQ and DD. And now that's about all it's good for.
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  16. #56
    Community Member Ivan_Milic's Avatar
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    Like poster above me said Terror is great dps weapon,for oozes and rust monsters.

  17. #57
    Community Member SilkofDrasnia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by akash View Post
    No offence intended but it's now pretty much clear to me that you got the entire concept wrong. Insta killing is no way DPS, moreover if you believe on that then you also brag about your kill counts. DPS comes in portal beating, boss killing, and nightmare weapons are useless on that regard. That reminds me I once declined a duel wielding litII khopesh user kensai fighter in old eDQ PUG LFM, unfortunately those were his only decent weapons besides Terror and he became so mad he told me that he tops the melee kill counts everywhere. I politely had to say him that it won't work there. Arcanes on trash, melees on boss, that's the way to go. That's the way it is.


    Dunno where u get i brag about stuff as that so far from the truth that its hilarious, maybe learn to read ?

    Second insta kill IS dps anyone that's not an idiot knows that if mob has 900 hp and u insta kill it it adds to your overall dps because you did 900 damage in 1 sec/hit . What your saying is like saying someone has no dps because they didn't get the last hit on mobs (n thus didnt get kill for it) yet hit for like 3k when they crit doh .

    Why arcanes on trash maybe cause they can instakill/dps the manure out of trash where as bosses they are immune from instakill the acrane dps goes down ?? lol

    So sorry i am offended as you keep putting words in my mouth i never said.
    Last edited by SilkofDrasnia; 07-13-2012 at 03:11 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    Insulting the development team is not allowed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jendrak
    Somebody should definitely explain to Turbine that when they roll up a new GM that INT is not dump stat.

  18. #58
    Community Member Ivan_Milic's Avatar
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    How much dps does instakill do?

  19. #59
    The Hatchery danotmano1998's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan_Milic View Post
    How much dps does instakill do?
    Instakill > DPS, especially with the bloated hit points DDO puts into their monsters.
    But, for the purposes of answering your question, instakill = (Whatever monster hp is/ time it took to proc the kill) DPS.

    (Note: If something is immune to instakill, that number would be zero.)
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    Dude, did you see they way that guy just pressed button 1? It was amazing! A display of skill unseen since the 1984 World Games where in the men's room, between events, a man washed his hands with such unbridled majesty that people were claiming the faucet he used was OP.

  20. #60
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkofDrasnia View Post

    My point is it's only newbs using the terror and anyone bragging about it in party chat will be known as one, the terror was not OP especially considering it doesn't work that great in higher difficulties.
    Terror (and nightmare on good crit profile weapons) was OP to the point of hilarity. When the ranger, who gets the entire TWF line for free just by taking ranger levels, is swinging a terror just to keep up, the weapon is OP.

    When everyone in the group is using a nightmare weapon previous to the nerf, barely any mobs die from having their HP reduced to lower than zero. They were all being PKd.

    On vorpal hit is still a good effect if you have a weapon that has other good effects on it. My bard is using a nightmare falchion of the sun, which is nightmare, incandescence, flame blast. It just doesnt PK everything before it gets to zero HP anymore.

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