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  1. #1
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    Default Winter Wolf DPS

    This post is currently incomplete, as I will be using it as a point of reference, and etc.
    Any feedback is welcome.

    Objective

    Winter Wolf DPS, Support Healer

    Race, Class, and Alignment

    Nature's Warrior
    Human, Druid 20, True Neutral

    Ability Scores (34 pt - beast mode)

    40 STR - 16 base +3 tome +7 item +1 exceptional +1 profane +2 AP +2 ship +2 yugo +4 size (animal growth)
    18 DEX - 8 base +2 tome +7 item +1 profane +2 ship -2 size (animal growth)
    34 CON - 14 base +3 tome +6 item +2 insightful +1 profane +2 ship +2 yugo +4 size (animal growth)
    11 INT - 10 base +2 tome +1 profane +2 ship -2 beast mode
    46 WIS - 18 base +3 tome +6 levels +7 item +3 insightful +1 profane +4 AP +2 ship +2 yugo
    19 CHA - 8 base +4 tome +6 item +1 profane +2 ship -2 beast mode

    Skills:

    Maximum ranks in Concentration, Diplomacy, Balance, Bluff, and UMD. 1 in Tumble, and remainder into Spot (or split between Hide and Move Silently).

    Feats

    1 - Toughness
    1 (H) - Power Attack
    3 - Maximize Spell
    6 - Quicken Spell (a part from Heal, I leave this off)
    9 - Natural Fighting
    12 - Improved Critical: Bludgeoning (Unarmed)
    15 - Natural Fighting
    18 - Natural Fighting
    21 - Shield Mastery
    24 - Improved Shield Mastery

    Enhancements

    Druid

    Natural Adept, Druid Beastial Nature I, Druid Beastial Nature II, Druid Celerity, Druid Fatal Harrier, Druid Nature's Warrior I, Druid Nature's Warrior II, Druid Shifting Rake I, Druid Shifting Rake II, Druid Vengeful Hunter I, Druid Vengeful Hunter II, Druid Waxing Hoarfrost I, Druid Zenith of Life I, Druid Energy of the Locus I, Druid Eminence of Hoarfrost I, Druid Eminence of Hoarfrost II, Druid Eminence of Hoarfrost III, Druid Eminence of Hoarfrost IV, Druid Eminence of Life I, Druid Eminence of Life II, Druid Eminence of Life III, Druid Eminence of Life IV, Druid Strength I, Druid Strength II, Druid Wisdom I, Druid Wisdom II, Druid Wisdom III, Druid Toughness I, Druid Toughness II, Druid Toughness III, Druid Toughness IV

    Human

    Human Adaptability Wisdom I, Human Improved Recovery I, Racial Toughness I, Racial Toughness II

    Gear (Minimal Grinding)

    Head - Epic Mask of Comedy (+6 Cha, Devotion 78, Potency 52, Major Healing Lore, Fear Immunity)
    Goggles - Supreme Tyrant Green Steel of Existential Stalemate (+150 sp)
    Neck - Torc of Prince Raiyum-de II // Silver Flame Talisman // Other various swappable gear.
    Trinket - Litany of the Dead // Pale Lavender Ioun Stone (Archmagi) // Mysterious Bauble // Other various swappable gear.
    Cloak - Supreme Tyrant Green Steel Cloak of Mineral (+45 hp)
    Bracers - Bracers of the Sun Soul (+7 Wis, +2 Insightful Con, Superior Parrying)
    Gloves - Purple Dragon Gauntlets (+7 Str, +2 Insightful Con, +30% hamp)
    Belt - Knost's Belt (+6 Con, Greater False Life)
    Boots - Cannith Boots of Propulsion (+15 Jump, +30% Striding, +1/10 min Wings) // Boots of Anchoring
    Ring - Encrusted Ring (+2 Str or Holy Burst)
    Ring - Seal of House Avithoul (+7 Dex, Sneak Attack +5/+8, Exceptional Sneak Attack +3/+5), Improved Deception)
    Armor - Spider-spun Caparison (+3 Insightful Wis, Toughness, +6 Resistance, etc)
    Main Hand - Supreme Tyrant Green Steel Scimitar of Lightning
    Off Hand - Alchemical Crystal Heavy Shield Mys Water, Mar Air, Mys Fire (Glaciation 90, Freezing Ice Guard, Doublestrike 6%, +Efficient Meta Max II, +2 Evo Focus, Arcane Aug IX)

    Consumables:

    Heal Scrolls, Greater Restoration Scrolls, True Seeing Scrolls, Fire Shield Scrolls, Greater Heroism Scrolls, Teleport Scrolls, Greater Teleport Scrolls

    Other Gear Ideas

    Difficulty Challenges

    44 Takedown - 11 base +46 wis (18) +10 Vertigo +5 Exceptional Combat Mastery

    Epic Destinies (Ideas)

    Melee Dps Mode:
    Shadowdancer or Grandmaster of Flowers
    Twist 1 - Sense Weakness (FotW) +30% dmg to helpless; +1d8>75% targets, +1d12>50% targets, +1d20>25% targets
    Twist 2 - Tunnel Vision (FotW) While raged +1d12, +3 intim, +3 will saves, -5 ac, -10% fort
    Twist 3 - Endless Faith (GMoF) +10% SP

    Caster (healer) Mode:
    Exalted Angel
    Twist 1 - Precise Casting (DI) +2 Evo DC's
    Twist 2 - Spell School Specialist (Evocation) (M) +3 Evo DC's
    Twist 3 - Endless Faith (GMoF) +10% SP

    Sources: Druids: An Informative Write-up, Complete Druid spell list, and Druid enhancements
    Last edited by UrbanPyro; 07-01-2014 at 09:11 AM.
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  2. #2
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    Why do you have Improved Crit: Bludgeoning, and a scimitar?

    I would have dropped toughness for Shield Mastery, and kept Augment Summoning. It's not like you can take the summon spells off your bar, and the pet is basically permanent. Make them the best they can while they are still useful. When you get to raiding levels /high teens, and they stop being useful, swap back to toughness.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alkiera View Post
    Why do you have Improved Crit: Bludgeoning, and a scimitar?

    I would have dropped toughness for Shield Mastery, and kept Augment Summoning. It's not like you can take the summon spells off your bar, and the pet is basically permanent. Make them the best they can while they are still useful. When you get to raiding levels /high teens, and they stop being useful, swap back to toughness.
    I dislike pets usage. Even while leveling my artificer, I didn't use the Defender all that often because the folks that I run with tend to zerg a lot. Come end game, I refuse to waste a feat slot on something I can get in a piece of gear: Epic Roderic's Wand ftw.

    Secondly, the Improved Critical: Bludgeoning works like it does for monks. Animal form attacks are the same as unarmed strikes. They probably just don't have the appropriate text in the description yet.
    Last edited by UrbanPyro; 04-01-2014 at 12:20 PM.
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  4. #4
    Community Member nickzed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alkiera View Post
    Why do you have Improved Crit: Bludgeoning, and a scimitar?

    I would have dropped toughness for Shield Mastery, and kept Augment Summoning. It's not like you can take the summon spells off your bar, and the pet is basically permanent. Make them the best they can while they are still useful. When you get to raiding levels /high teens, and they stop being useful, swap back to toughness.
    Weapon type doesn't matter for shape change druids, and even though the damage type is piercing/slashing in wolf form, it's treated as unarmed damage and imp crit bludgeoning is actually the only imp crit dmg type that works on shapechange druids for that purpose. I believe one of the Devs said they plan on changing the wording for druids so that is more obvious to people because right now its extremely confusing.


    edit:

    oops, I was wrong. here's the actual dev post on the matter:

    Quote Originally Posted by Vesuvium View Post

    Animal form combat benefits from feats that benefit Unarmed. So Weapon Focus: Unarmed will give you bonuses to your animal form attacks. Improved Critical: Unarmed is what you want. The confusing part here is that "Unarmed" is usually grouped under the "Bludgeoning" feats. We should probably do something to make this clearer.


    Tl;dr you want imp crit unarmed instead, not slashing
    Last edited by nickzed; 07-11-2012 at 02:13 PM.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by nickzed View Post
    ... <snip> ...
    Thank you for the confirmation.
    Last edited by UrbanPyro; 04-01-2014 at 12:20 PM.
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  6. #6
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    This is a very workable build with solid stats and a reasonable set of feats.

    Precision and augment summoning are two feats that come to mind as "near misses" for your build, precision because of the DEX requirement and augment summoning because of your emphasis on personal melee DPS.

    You might consider going half-elf with rogue dilly for the extra sneak attack damage, replacing either a meta or a natural fighting feat. You'd have to think harder about forgoing precision if you went this route, though.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsaving View Post
    ... <snip>...
    Original post updated.

    Had I known what I know now, I probably would have gone half-elf from the start. If I do half-elf, I would splash monk into for the usual 2 feats+evasion. Pick up a +3 dex tome to work in Precision. At the moment, human with the melee capstone will be the best I can do without TRing. 2d6 sneak capstone vs 3d6 rogue dilly. The build above is definately going to be the character's test life.

    Trying to fit in everything that I would like to do requires a 36 pt build, so I'm already planning out her double tr life.
    Last edited by UrbanPyro; 04-01-2014 at 12:20 PM.
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  8. #8
    Community Member AtomicMew's Avatar
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    The biggest problem with trying to do a wolf form melee/healer is that you can't use scrolls in wolf form. Without that, you'll never really have the lasting power that a divine will have.

    Personally, if I wanted to do a druid melee healer, it would be something along the lines of 17 druid/3 monk fire elemental form with handwraps. You won't have as much melee DPS for sure, but you'll have access to cheap spell DPS in the form of body of the sun and fires of purity. And most important, you'll retain your ability to scroll heal.

  9. #9
    Community Member Quetzacoala's Avatar
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    In your journal, you said that most druids in animal form simply did not utilize spells; I have to admit that I was doing the same thing, and I am curious to know what your strategy is.
    Quote Originally Posted by DeafeningWhisper View Post
    I agree with the feathered marsupial.

  10. #10
    Community Member TheBlueFox's Avatar
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    I've made myself this type of druid to 18, and I rather like it. Well, its SORTA this type of druid.

    Wolf form melee with offensive spells and backup healing. I usually run about casting an AOE, fighting inside it, providing sneak attack melee support to the main fighters, and pegging them with Heals and vigors. Getting a free 20sp whenever you crit is priceless and allows you to save a bundle of healing, since to peg yourself with a greater vigor is only like 15 sp and Heal spells then only cost 20sp.

    Maxing wisdom is essential, I would even say to put all levelups into it, but Im sure most people know it by now. Its easy enough to raise your +to hit, heck you get a level 1 spell that gives your weapon an extra +5 hit and damage at high level, but you need to get those DCs up on your wolf attacks for them to be useful, and howl of terror is incredibly useful.

    In wolf form your spells take 2.5x longer to recharge, dont expect to save anyone's life with multiple heals unless you duck out of wolf form. Reincarnate takes 6 or so seconds to actually cast, so dont expect to rez much mid combat either. What you CAN do is get a crit and cast a nice AOE regenerate or AOE vigor to buffer everyone, which people may SAY is useless, but they appreciate it on the inside...I hope. I just can not see Druids being depended on for healing, unless you stick to an elemental form and stick to season's herald.

    I personally LIKE the pet. I've given him an improved cursespewer weapon to help me out in landing my bite attacks, and I've taken augment summoning. He does roughly 60-70 damage on a hit, hits pretty quick, and crits for 160 or so. I dont have to babysit him unless things are going terrible, which when I play with my guild is not often at all, with pugs...well...not very often still, he's not as terrible as people say if he stays out of trouble and doesn't run off to die.

    Going 2 monk would be GREAT for evasion, god knows it comes in handy, but I'm gonna go pure druid because I wanna try out the capstone and try being a pure druid just for the sake of it.

    Power attack? too feat starved, dont take it. You dont really need it either, Magic fang, +5 attack and damage, There, you've given yourself Power attack without an accuracy buff >.>
    Wisdom is a liquor store. Tastes so sweet, just wait till you wake up in the morning.

  11. #11
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    I'd honestly advice if you want to heal to stick with heading toward the elemental forms in the end since you use wands/scrolls/weapon full effects when in those forms and also don't have the recast time penalties of the animal forms.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quetzacoala View Post
    In your journal, you said that most druids in animal form simply did not utilize spells; I have to admit that I was doing the same thing, and I am curious to know what your strategy is.
    1-4 was a lot of Entangle+Takedown.

    5 Entangle+Spike Growth+Takedown.

    I can't tell you any further than that at the moment because she's only level 5 atm, and I'm away from game for the weekend.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheBlueFox View Post
    ...<snip>...
    You reminded me why I went pure! The melee capstone reduces the caster time down to 1.5x. We already knew Druids weren't going to be out right replacing the traditional healing classes. With enough practice though, like a spellsinger bard solo healing eda or shroud (pre u14), I'm more than certain a few people will get it down. As far as my healing tactics go, the theortics were if I couldn't melee and support heal at the same time, to drop Winter Wolf form and go into Water Elemental form. Water Elemental form would allow some minor support cold-flavored dps (Greater Creeping Cold) and debuffs (Freezing Spray, Mantle of the Icy Soul), scroll usage, and normal casting times again.

    Thanks for the note on Power Attack. I've been doing this on the fly, and I finally have some time this evening to actually sit down to look at spells.
    Last edited by UrbanPyro; 04-01-2014 at 12:19 PM.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicMew View Post
    The biggest problem with trying to do a wolf form melee/healer is that you can't use scrolls in wolf form. Without that, you'll never really have the lasting power that a divine will have.

    Personally, if I wanted to do a druid melee healer, it would be something along the lines of 17 druid/3 monk fire elemental form with handwraps. You won't have as much melee DPS for sure, but you'll have access to cheap spell DPS in the form of body of the sun and fires of purity. And most important, you'll retain your ability to scroll heal.
    You could use handwraps, but might be better to use the summoned scimitars since they use your Wis stat base and don't unbalance monk classes. They come in single and dual wield flavors.

  14. #14
    Community Member Quetzacoala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UrbanPyro View Post
    1-4 was a lot of Entangle+Takedown.

    5 Entangle+Spike Growth+Takedown.

    I can't tell you any further than that at the moment because she's only level 5 atm, and I'm away from game for the weekend.
    Thank you for your reply; my druid is only level 5 as well, so this is of great help. While I have been using takedown a lot, I have not been using entangle or spike growth, even though I am wisdom specced.
    Quote Originally Posted by DeafeningWhisper View Post
    I agree with the feathered marsupial.

  15. #15
    Community Member threefeetunder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UrbanPyro View Post
    Is Power Attack worth trying to work in with 3/4's AB and STR as a secondary stat? Druids are feat starved. Don't bother with it, and just cast Magic Fang.
    I've been wondering about that. Not for power attack itself, I'd much rather swing with precision, but it allows you to take cleave/great cleave (which are pretty fast in wolf form), making legendary dreadnought a much more interesting destiny with momentum/laywaste, on top of the tier 6 pulverizer ability...hopefully it works on unarmed attacks like improve critical bludgeon does, because that's a very significant dps increase (if the 18-20x3 winter wolf crit threat range is intended, then you'd have 17-20x3 with pulverizer, so 13-20x3 with improved critical).

    Of course you'd need to make room for it and cleave. That 2/1 monk/fighter splash is looking mighty attractive....


    Quote Originally Posted by UrbanPyro View Post
    New Unable to location a form description at this time. Do the elemental forms grant respective innate cold and fire type attacks when you shift? (i.e. Wolf mode bites. Does Water Elemental pew-pew a cold type attack, or add cold damage to attacks at all?)
    They have a form specific spells if that's what you mean. Nothing fancy with the attack animation itself. You can find form descriptions here amongst other useful info.

    Quote Originally Posted by UrbanPyro View Post
    New Have others been investing skill points into bluff, and/or diplomacy to land their sneak attacks?
    I've been using fom+sleet storm for sneak attacks whilst soloing, which worked fantastically well (on trash).
    Last edited by threefeetunder; 07-14-2012 at 11:25 AM.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by threefeetunder View Post
    ...<snip>...
    I was aware of that thread, but evidently I need to stop and read closer. Thank you for the link.

    Precision on a Wolf is how I would go too, if I were to run a splash build. The more I've thought about it, I'm unwilling to splash, because the line of thought is loosely similar to not wanting to give up the artificer capstone. If you plan on being as versatile as possible without wanting to give up any casting prowess, the fact that melee capstone reduces your beast mode casting time down to 1.5x is way to appealing to me. Shame we can't take an epic feat to reduce it further.

    Fom+Sleet Storm sounds interesting as a solo tactic. I'll have to try that out when they become available at level. I don't imagine friendlies would appreciate it, unless fomed of course. I used Sleet Storm+Von boots on my Air Savant for a while. It was amusing, but not effective in the slightest. XD
    Last edited by UrbanPyro; 04-01-2014 at 12:19 PM.
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by UrbanPyro View Post
    The more I've thought about it, I'm unwilling to splash, because the line of thought is loosely similar to not wanting to give up the artificer capstone. If you plan on being as versatile as possible without wanting to give up any casting prowess, the fact that melee capstone reduces your beast mode casting time down to 1.5x is way to appealing to me. Shame we can't take an epic feat to reduce it further.
    It is recast time, not cast time. Your spells will still cast at the same speed, you just get to re-use them more often.

  18. #18
    Community Member Mrphish's Avatar
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    New Have others been investing skill points into bluff, and/or diplomacy to land their sneak attacks?
    i spent a few points into diplo, not nessicarily for the purpose of getting sneak attacks... just for general purpose, i like all my toons to have a talk skill and diplo seemed somewhat useful at the time. i've used it a few times but not much anymore, because i have my dog step up spam intim that with the mixture of a deception weapon makes them pretty much well, useless... atleast as far SA is concerned.

    something i'd like to add about going the monk splash route later on; i personally wouldn't do it, for a number of reasons. the first being im a pureist at heart and prefer it if possible but that aside, you can get evasion by simply going with the shadowdancer destiny, which also happens to work well with helping out your wolf dps this grants you, evasion, more sneak attack damage, some more reflex, and incorpability. add that with a half elf pure druid with cap stone and rogue dilly, and you've got some very nice sneak attack damage. now the only thing left is the extra feats from a monk splash... you'll have to decide weather or not their worth it.

    anyway just another option to keep in mind for next time.
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  19. #19
    Community Member belaf52's Avatar
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    Default Kama

    Personnaly I decided to use dual-wielding kama cannith crafted to level up to 20. Kama keep me centered (while shield don't) and I can balance the penality to attack (I don't have TWF) with the large slot in my off hand while my main hand have a elemental damage sloted. I can use handwrap as well in certain situation.

  20. #20
    Community Member mwgarn's Avatar
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    I've seen a few different Druid builds that take the natural fighting feats for double strike, improved critical feats, some even splash monk levels but I havant seen any take the active monk past life? Is an extra die step not worth it? I took it on mine he just hit level 3 so I havant gotten to play with it much.. And was going to drop heighten for it DC based spells are going to suffer but I don't think it will be to much of an issue.. FoD might suffer the most but with out the spell pen I got on my wiz or the DC I don't see it breaking through much anyway
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