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  1. #21
    Scholar Of Adventure & Hero Missing_Minds's Avatar
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    I'm not an arti expert at all... but I have to wonder. Given what running does to a rune arm charge, the time it takes to actually charge up, the speed reduction when charging, the complete utter LACK of hard/soft targeting and even mouse targeting doesn't work well, shots missed due to terrain and pattern of the shot....

    (I mean hell, I'm not a mouse targeter, but I have NEVER gotten more than 2 hits on the ship dummy target, with a fully charged up "The Turmoil Within", perfectly lined up, several feet back, on equal elevation. It should register 4 hits.)

    Did they really need to be nerfed so much?

  2. #22
    Community Member SteeleTrueheart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadFloyd View Post

    As a long-term goal, we also hope to be able to improve the player’s Character Sheet to show Spell Power for each spell damage/healing type, as well as to show other statistics that currently do not appear on it, such as increased or decreased threat, healing amplification, and others.
    Nice post and exactly what we want to see coming from devs. Hoping the character sheet changes are sooner rather than later as it is much needed.
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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auralana7214 View Post

    Also, I don't play warforged, so maybe it is none of my business or maybe I am missing something, but (OMG, don't kill me!) why isn't Reconstruct on this list?

    ?
    1) Heal/mass heal recover stat damage. Reconstruct does not
    2) With the WF healing amp nerf, ya really want to hurt the only way WF can be healed efficiently?

  4. #24
    Community Member Auralana7214's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by meathook2008 View Post
    1) Heal/mass heal recover stat damage. Reconstruct does not
    2) With the WF healing amp nerf, ya really want to hurt the only way WF can be healed efficiently?
    What? Stat damage has nothing to do with this. I am assuming that healing amp will be fixed because it is a BUG, not a nerf.

    Oh, and if your wf gets stat damage, that'd be a bug too
    Last edited by Auralana7214; 07-11-2012 at 12:33 PM.
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  5. #25
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by justagame View Post
    I appreciate the response. Unfortunately, I think you guys overshot in this case, if the goal was to make spell outpout in the level 11-20 range comparable.

    Take the Heal spell.

    For a character with the max life magic line (life magic IV), and no metas. I also exclude healing amp since it applies equally to both cases.

    Old system, with superior potency or superior devotion:

    150 x (1+.4+.5) + 150*1.9 = 285

    New system, with the SAME equipment (sup potency VI converted, so assume sp 48 with an implement bonus of 9)
    SP = 100 + (40+48+9)/2 = 168.5. Times 150 = 252, a 12% loss.

    Now, we'd all agree that equipment is gimp, so let's toss it out, and use better at-level equipment. Say a devotion 72 item, with a 15 implement bonus. That is STILL

    SP = 100 + (40+72+15)/2 = 183, times 150 = 274, a 4% loss.
    Is a 4% loss really something to get upset about?

    And note that 99% of us got our mass heal buffed, since we didn't an item before U14 that would buff it. So a 4% loss on heal and an increase on mass heal (which is hugely efficient).

    It's hard for me to understand why everyone thinks healing got nerfed. What got nerfed is that they have to give up a slot for devotion or item swap, but the formulas the devs used are pretty solid.

    Now, light spells only getting 50% I hope is just a bug. They should be getting 100% spell power just like other attack spells.
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  6. #26
    Community Member Monkey_Archer's Avatar
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    While I understand why this was necessary and agree with the reasons for doing it, I don't understand why this method was chosen to correct certain spells. It just seems overly complicated and confusing for players when a direct nerf to the offending spells/abilities would have been much easier.

    For example, if a rune arm with 8 to 30 + 1d10 per Artificer Level is too powerful when you add 100 spell power, why not just change it to 7 to 24 + 1d8 per Artificer Level?
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  7. #27
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monkey_Archer View Post
    While I understand why this was necessary and agree with the reasons for doing it, I don't understand why this method was chosen to correct certain spells. It just seems overly complicated and confusing for players when a direct nerf to the offending spells/abilities would have been much easier.

    For example, if a rune arm with 8 to 30 + 1d10 per Artificer Level is too powerful when you add 100 spell power, why not just change it to 7 to 24 + 1d8 per Artificer Level?
    Yeah I agree with this. They probably should have just changed the damage dice on all these spells that have a problem.

    1 spell power equals 1% is pretty simple. It's too bad there are exceptions to it.
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  8. #28
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    Tyvm for clarifying this.

    but what exactly does:

    Quote Originally Posted by MadFloyd View Post
    • All Runearm Shots: Between 50% and 80%
    mean? Does the difference come from the different elemental line or charge tier maybe?

    Also, what about the repair line? It is essentially the same as heal but seemed to get missed, is this supposed to stay like this or not?

  9. #29
    Uber Completionist luvirini's Avatar
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    Thank you for the explanation, though I do not agree on your conclusions.

    The spells you list and few that you did not list (blade barrier and the divine light spells) all do less damage now than before.

    On my level 20 cleric:
    Divine punishment: down about 25% after +20 spell power from epic destiny!!!
    Blade barrier: ->down about 1/3
    The Heal spell: 50% ->down about 10-15% after +20 spell power from epic destiny (about 25% before the epic destiny)
    The Mass Heal spell: 50% ->about the same after +20 spell power from epic destiny

    On my level 22 palemaster:
    Necrotic Touch (Pale Master): 50% ->down about 1/3
    Necrotic Bolt (Pale Master): 50% ->down about 1/3
    Necrotic Blast (Pale Master): 50% ->down about 1/3
    Death aura: ->down about 1/3
    Last edited by luvirini; 07-11-2012 at 12:48 PM. Reason: added deth aura

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by justagame View Post
    I'd say the adjustment is too much. Far too much. Needing devotion 100 just to get back to break-even, is NOT making level 11-20 damage comparable. It's saying to divines "everyone else is getting a boost this update. YOU need to go hunt for great > level 20 equipment just to recover what you lost, and you won't be gaining anything much above that."
    ^this and rest of the post as well.

  11. #31
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    Thanks for the explanation MF. I've been waiting for a real post on this.

    I understand the reasoning and the concern.

    However I spent the time and effort to grind out a Superior Devotion IX item. I did this with the intention of casting Mass heal without the use of empower heal in order to endurance heal longer fights.

    That grind feels wasted now. Had it come from 2 year old content I would be less upset, but it came from the most recent raid prior to MOTU.
    Simply buffing alchemical items to 100 or 108 spell power and adding implement bonus to them would balance this out quite a bit. This would put it on par with some of the lower end items from MOTU(random gen trash).

    TLDR:
    I am in the 1% that was nerfed.
    Adding implement bonus and slightly increasing the Spell power of alchemical items would balance this.
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  12. #32
    Community Member Terebinthia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monkey_Archer View Post
    While I understand why this was necessary and agree with the reasons for doing it, I don't understand why this method was chosen to correct certain spells. It just seems overly complicated and confusing for players when a direct nerf to the offending spells/abilities would have been much easier.

    For example, if a rune arm with 8 to 30 + 1d10 per Artificer Level is too powerful when you add 100 spell power, why not just change it to 7 to 24 + 1d8 per Artificer Level?
    This. Thank you for the clarification, more information is always better. But this is a clunky way to go about it. Much better to tinker with the individual spells.
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  13. #33
    The Hatchery Scraap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadFloyd View Post
    The following spells currently receive reduced benefit from Spell Power:

    • Necrotic Touch (Pale Master): 50%
    • Necrotic Bolt (Pale Master): 50%
    • Necrotic Blast (Pale Master): 50%
    • All Runearm Shots: Between 50% and 80%

    Why these spells?
    These spells are not affected either by Empower Spell, Maximize Spell, or both, and never have been.

    We set the percentages of your Spell Power for the above spells to ensure that a character, upon the release of the expansion pack, at the same level and with equipment appropriate to their level, would see similar results with those spells.

    If they did not receive reduced benefit from Spell Power, those spells would have been too powerful, since Spell Power amounts on items and enhancements now eclipse the old Spell Damage Amplification bonuses.
    Saved me a bug report. Thanks. Definitely explains why slapping Impulse 60 on Lucid Dreams (as high as you can fit) wasn't seeing a very measurable difference when it came to how much it chopped off a mobs red-bar.

    Clarification on Spell Power itemization for scrolling, and the intended state of crafted spell-power shards once there's time to implement that?
    Last edited by Scraap; 07-11-2012 at 12:52 PM.

  14. #34
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dubyprime View Post
    Thanks for the explanation MF. I've been waiting for a real post on this.

    I understand the reasoning and the concern.

    However I spent the time and effort to grind out a Superior Devotion IX item. I did this with the intention of casting Mass heal without the use of empower heal in order to endurance heal longer fights.

    That grind feels wasted now. Had it come from 2 year old content I would be less upset, but it came from the most recent raid prior to MOTU.
    Simply buffing alchemical items to 100 or 108 spell power and adding implement bonus to them would balance this out quite a bit. This would put it on par with some of the lower end items from MOTU(random gen trash).

    TLDR:
    I am in the 1% that was nerfed.
    Adding implement bonus and slightly increasing the Spell power of alchemical items would balance this.
    I agree those items should be majorly buffed.
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    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
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    No single character has all the skills and resources needed to guarantee success in all endeavors; favorable results can usually only be achieved through group effort. No single player character wins, in the sense that he or she defeats all other player characters; the goal of the forces of good can only be attained through cooperation, so that victory is a group achievement rather than an individual one.

  15. #35
    Community Member Avidus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadFloyd View Post
    <snip>...
    Going forward, if we alter the Spell Power coefficient of a specific spell, we intend to update the tooltip to reflect either “This spell receives reduced benefit from Spell Power” or “This spell receives increased benefit from Spell Power”. This will allow us more control to boost “weaker” spells as needed without over-boosting already powerful ones.
    I have to echo MrCow on this one. Is there anyway we could see the percentages? Having them be variable adds flexibility but causes confusion. Knowing what it is supposed to be would make it much easier to determine what is and is not working as intended.

    As a long-term goal, we also hope to be able to improve the player’s Character Sheet to show Spell Power for each spell damage/healing type, as well as to show other statistics that currently do not appear on it, such as increased or decreased threat, healing amplification, and others.
    ...<snip>
    I liked everything you said. This part especially. Oh how I long for a more informative character sheet. I just wish it wasn't a "long term goal." Is there anything we as players can do to get this moved to a "we are working on it and it whould be released next hotfix/patch/update" goal?
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  16. #36
    Community Member ferd's Avatar
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    Thank You.


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  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadFloyd View Post
    We are always watching the performance of groups in content, and will make further changes if needed.
    The real reason there is unexplained lag, there are 20 devs sitting in your instance laughing at you while you fail.

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  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    Is a 4% loss really something to get upset about?

    And note that 99% of us got our mass heal buffed, since we didn't an item before U14 that would buff it. So a 4% loss on heal and an increase on mass heal (which is hugely efficient).

    It's hard for me to understand why everyone thinks healing got nerfed. What got nerfed is that they have to give up a slot for devotion or item swap, but the formulas the devs used are pretty solid.

    Now, light spells only getting 50% I hope is just a bug. They should be getting 100% spell power just like other attack spells.
    4% is a nerf when (a) you have to give up/swap out your SP bonuses on all your other spells to get it, AND, (b) mob damage and player hit points are going way up.

    Heal is flat even with a 100 devotion item. What's happening to hit points? To incoming damage? To virtually all other spell output. Yes, it's a nerf.

    And I think I acknowledged that mass heal suffers less from this. I simply believe that for heal, they overshot, if the goal was the same damage from 11-20, and better output in epics. And it was totally needless for stuff like archon light damage.

  19. #39
    Community Member Cyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    Yeah I agree with this. They probably should have just changed the damage dice on all these spells that have a problem.

    1 spell power equals 1% is pretty simple. It's too bad there are exceptions to it.
    Agreed. Go with the solution that is not confusing to the player. Variable spell power based upon spell and worse rune arm is just not a good idea.

    Change the base damage dice on those things and be done with it.

    Also did I miss Death Aura not being on that list of things not recieving full spell power? Kind of assumed it would be.
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  20. #40
    Community Member susiedupfer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dubyprime View Post
    Thanks for the explanation MF. I've been waiting for a real post on this.

    I understand the reasoning and the concern.

    However I spent the time and effort to grind out a Superior Devotion IX item. I did this with the intention of casting Mass heal without the use of empower heal in order to endurance heal longer fights.

    That grind feels wasted now. Had it come from 2 year old content I would be less upset, but it came from the most recent raid prior to MOTU.
    Simply buffing alchemical items to 100 or 108 spell power and adding implement bonus to them would balance this out quite a bit. This would put it on par with some of the lower end items from MOTU(random gen trash).

    TLDR:
    I am in the 1% that was nerfed.
    Adding implement bonus and slightly increasing the Spell power of alchemical items would balance this.
    I have Alchemical Dev IX shields on three toons(my healer specific toons). I farmed long and hard for them. Even put the Sup Healing Lore tier 2 on them. Many of my friends have noticed no heal nerf. I noticed. Big time.
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