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  1. #1
    Community Member BrianTheHun's Avatar
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    Default Using dex for damage

    After some debate, the Shadowdancer autogrant of using dexterity for damage modifier was shelved. I believe that a dev said it would be making it into the game as an Heroic feat or enhancement. If possible, may we please get an ETA on when that might be? Will it be in the next patch or two, or during the enhancement pass?
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrianTheHun View Post
    After some debate, the Shadowdancer autogrant of using dexterity for damage modifier was shelved. I believe that a dev said it would be making it into the game as an Heroic feat or enhancement. If possible, may we please get an ETA on when that might be? Will it be in the next patch or two, or during the enhancement pass?
    Enhancement pass.

  3. #3
    Community Member Jaid314's Avatar
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    i don't think we have anything specific promised, but i would also expect the enhancement pass. no point in making an enhancement for it sooner when you'll just have to change it in a month, nor does it make sense to have to come back just after you finished changing everything in the enhancement path.

  4. #4
    Community Member BrianTheHun's Avatar
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    Yeah, the enhancement pass would be my guess as well. I was a bit disappointed to see it changed from the Shadowdancer destiny, but it will still be nice when it arrives.
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    Founder TreknaQudane's Avatar
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    If you get DEX for damage, I want STR for AC.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by TreknaQudane View Post
    If you get DEX for damage, I want STR for AC.
    Are you okay with CHA for damage?

    I assume its fair that a Barbarian can stack just STR and CON, or a Wizard can stack just INT and CON and be fully capable builds, a Sorcerer needs CHA and CON, but a Rogue needs STR and DEX and INT and CON. Even if they can add DEX to damage they still need 3 Stats.

    And at the end of the day the Rogue will still do less damage.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by TreknaQudane View Post
    If you get DEX for damage, I want STR for AC.
    If you had to deviate yours stats between hit n dmg you'd be singing a different tune.

  8. #8
    Community Member Kayla93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TreknaQudane View Post
    If you get DEX for damage, I want STR for AC.
    Dont be so dramatic. Dex for dmg wont be OP.

    1. Dex to dmg will be probably usable only with finesable weapons - so u wont be able to use sos, khopeshes, some axes - that are considered best weapons right now.
    2. Str is easier to boost. Rage. madstone rage etc. boost up str. Theres no :clicky: or :spell: boost for dex. Not to add barbarians rage and fighters power surge. Also rams might spell.... the only boost to dex I know comes from rogue pre - acrobat. And it consumes haste boost use.


    And true - I feel like this wil be big for rogues and monks, cause right now they need 4 stats. Thats a lot.

  9. #9
    Halfling Hero phalaeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kayla93 View Post
    Theres no :clicky: or :spell: boost for dex. Not to add barbarians rage and fighters power surge. Also rams might spell.... the only boost to dex I know comes from rogue pre - acrobat. And it consumes haste boost use.
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  10. #10
    Community Member Dragavon's Avatar
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    Why make this part of the enhancements?

    Just add it to the weapon finesse feat. That would be the logical and easy way to implement it.

  11. #11
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    Hi,

    Sorry, but I don't agree with this suggestion at all.

    DEX already drives AC, reflex saves, some useful skills, and to hit for ranged weapons. At the cost of a feat, it also can be used to drive your chances of hitting with certain melee weapons.

    That single stat already affects more gameplay mechanics than any other. There are also many ways to boost your STR score in the game, so that if you want to keep it low to medium when you start, a respectable final score still attainable.

    The cost of improving other stats to a modest level, rather than maxing out just one or two is fairly low. On a human 32 point build you can start with two scores of 14 and two of 16. The difference between a 14 or 16 and an 18 in starting stat does not actually have a huge impact on your character's uppermost potential.

    If you are asking for this because concerned about your rogue not doing enough damage, then there is either an issue with what you think you should be able to do, not playing well to make the most of your sneak attacks, or a build problem.

    The amount of damage available against unfortified (ie, the vast majority of) targets from a rogue is massive. Good feat and gear choices make it possible to deal with fortified opponents too.

    Thanks.
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  12. #12
    Community Member BrianTheHun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blerkington View Post
    Hi,

    Sorry, but I don't agree with this suggestion at all.

    DEX already drives AC, reflex saves, some useful skills, and to hit for ranged weapons. At the cost of a feat, it also can be used to drive your chances of hitting with certain melee weapons.

    That single stat already affects more gameplay mechanics than any other. There are also many ways to boost your STR score in the game, so that if you want to keep it low to medium when you start, a respectable final score still attainable.

    The cost of improving other stats to a modest level, rather than maxing out just one or two is fairly low. On a human 32 point build you can start with two scores of 14 and two of 16. The difference between a 14 or 16 and an 18 in starting stat does not actually have a huge impact on your character's uppermost potential.

    If you are asking for this because concerned about your rogue not doing enough damage, then there is either an issue with what you think you should be able to do, not playing well to make the most of your sneak attacks, or a build problem.

    The amount of damage available against unfortified (ie, the vast majority of) targets from a rogue is massive. Good feat and gear choices make it possible to deal with fortified opponents too.

    Thanks.
    First of all, it isn't a suggestion. It was originally intended to be an autogrant for the Shadowdancer destiny. After some discussion, it was removed and slated to become either an Heroic feat or an enhancement to someone with the Weapon Finesse feat. I agree that this is appropriate for finessable weapons only, so that it doesn't become abused by khopesh users and others looking for a workaround to take advantage of it.

    I agree with your views on stat distribution. An 18 (or 20 for racial adjustment) doesn't make much difference from 16.

    As far as not doing enough damage, I assure you that that is not an issue. Although I am a dex-build, I certainly didn't neglect strength, and I deal out some great DPS and I have some very top-notch gear. I am simply looking to enjoy using dex as a damage modifier as opposed to str, as suggested by the dev team.
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    I'm still on the fence about this being a good move or not, but if it has to happen it should either work with everything including khopeshes or only light weapons + staves.

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    There are so many ways to buff STR and so few to buff DEX that even DEX to damage enhancement won't make Finesse build the best dps.

    If you want a Max DPS build, you just go STR and reach the 50+ sustainable str.

    DEX to damage won't break STR builds, it just makes DEX's ones a little better so I see no absolutely reason to go against this.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tid12 View Post
    There are so many ways to buff STR and so few to buff DEX that even DEX to damage enhancement won't make Finesse build the best dps.

    If you want a Max DPS build, you just go STR and reach the 50+ sustainable str.

    DEX to damage won't break STR builds, it just makes DEX's ones a little better so I see no absolutely reason to go against this.
    It'll make rapier using dex rogue/shadow dancers higher DPS than str ones using khopeshes, that just feels wrong. It's not as bad as casters being able to use con as their casting stat but it's not far off.

  16. #16
    The Hatchery stoerm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jasparion View Post
    Are you okay with CHA for damage?

    I assume its fair that a Barbarian can stack just STR and CON, or a Wizard can stack just INT and CON and be fully capable builds, a Sorcerer needs CHA and CON, but a Rogue needs STR and DEX and INT and CON. Even if they can add DEX to damage they still need 3 Stats.

    And at the end of the day the Rogue will still do less damage.
    Yes, TWF khopesh rogues are notoriously bad at dealing damage...

    Edit: You want to boost rogues but it would just benefit fighters more than rogues. They have more feats to spare and less stats to worry about. The same applies to monks, to a lesser extent. You'll be envious all the same. If you want to be a fighter, roll a fighter.
    Last edited by stoerm; 07-11-2012 at 06:58 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ayseifn View Post
    It'll make rapier using dex rogue/shadow dancers higher DPS than str ones using khopeshes, that just feels wrong. It's not as bad as casters being able to use con as their casting stat but it's not far off.
    No, it won't. STR can be buffed up to 50+ SUSTAINABLE and 70+ short tem buffed while dex doesn't come even close to that number.

    Shadowdancer doesn't even come into play because the STR one can pick that up too, same buffs to both.

    Also, why would that feel wrong? Where is it written that STR rog MUST be better dps than DEX?

  18. #18
    The Hatchery karl_k0ch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tid12 View Post
    Shadowdancer doesn't even come into play because the STR one can pick that up too, same buffs to both.
    A Shadowdancer's Stat bonus is Dex/Int. Point Management may be an issue here, but the +6 Dex is not completely irrelevant.
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  19. #19
    The Hatchery stoerm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tid12 View Post
    Also, why would that feel wrong? Where is it written that STR rog MUST be better dps than DEX?
    Because it's a broken mechanism if there is no tradeoff involved.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ayseifn View Post
    It'll make rapier using dex rogue/shadow dancers higher DPS than str ones using khopeshes, that just feels wrong.
    No, that feels good.

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