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  1. #1
    Community Member Munkenmo's Avatar
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    Default Missing Pre Req for Epic Toughness

    Epic Toughness Requires :
    21 Con
    Toughness

    Please consider changing it to

    Epic Toughness Requires :
    21 con
    one of
    Toughness
    or
    Beserkers Fury

    Beserkers Fury <snip> This feat grants access to Racial and Class Toughness enhancements.

    To me it seems like an appropriate alternate pre req for epic toughness too.
    Last edited by fTdOmen; 07-10-2012 at 01:18 AM.

  2. #2
    Founder & Hero Uska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fTdOmen View Post
    Epic Toughness Requires :
    21 Con
    Toughness

    Please consider changing it to

    Epic Toughness Requires :
    21 con
    one of
    Toughness
    Beserkers Fury

    Beserkers Fury <snip> This feat grants access to Racial and Class Toughness enhancements.

    To me it seems like an appropriate alternate pre req for epic toughness too.

    Umm your idea seems to be to light of a requirement after all you get it for free if your a barb TR.

    Maybe lower the requirement to 19 or 20 if you have a barb past life otherwise I dont think requireing a 21 is to bad.

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  3. #3
    Community Member Inferno346's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uska View Post
    Umm your idea seems to be to light of a requirement after all you get it for free if your a barb TR.
    um no, that's the purchased past life feat.
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  4. #4
    Founder & Hero Uska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inferno346 View Post
    um no, that's the purchased past life feat.
    Ok so its still to light and 21 still isnt to bad

    Reason I thought it was the free one is because it says passive I dont play barbs probally the reason I wont ever have completionist I dont find them fun

    The ANTI-Realms FANBOI NUKE THE REALMS ITS THE ONLY REAL WAY TO BE SURE

  5. #5
    Community Member Hobgoblin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uska View Post
    Ok so its still to light and 21 still isnt to bad

    Reason I thought it was the free one is because it says passive I dont play barbs probally the reason I wont ever have completionist I dont find them fun
    i think he means that you could use either toughness or the barb past life for etoughness - nothing else seems to change.

    so /signed

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  6. #6
    Community Member Bilger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uska View Post
    Ok so its still to light and 21 still isnt to bad

    Reason I thought it was the free one is because it says passive I dont play barbs probally the reason I wont ever have completionist I dont find them fun
    How is it to light toughnes is one feat and berserkers is 1 feat the only difference in feats is 2 less hp(maybe more now with epic lvls) and a rage for 30 seconds.

    Seems like it should be listed as a one of, there isn't much difference in the feats.

    Honestly you don't play a barb and didn't even know what feat was so why say no? Not a jab just curious is all!

    /signed
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  7. #7
    Community Member Munkenmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uska View Post
    Umm your idea seems to be to light of a requirement after all you get it for free if your a barb TR.

    Maybe lower the requirement to 19 or 20 if you have a barb past life otherwise I dont think requireing a 21 is to bad.
    umm what?

    the normal epic toughness stat requirement is 21 con, i see no issue with that and it doesn't need to be changed.

    Berserkers fury is the purchased past life feat, in short it acts as toughness, with slightly less hp, but grants a single 30 second rage and +2 intim.

    It is essentially the same as toughness and looks like it should count as a pre req for epic toughness

  8. #8
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    Since they changed the barb active PL to grant access to toughness enhancements I see no reason it should not grant access to Epic Toughness also. /signed
    It's definitely an N-word.

  9. #9
    Founder & Hero Uska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilger View Post
    How is it to light toughnes is one feat and berserkers is 1 feat the only difference in feats is 2 less hp(maybe more now with epic lvls) and a rage for 30 seconds.

    Seems like it should be listed as a one of, there isn't much difference in the feats.

    Honestly you don't play a barb and didn't even know what feat was so why say no? Not a jab just curious is all!

    /signed

    Just dont think its to much of a requirement I do have 2 barbs both 16 one I played there the other I used a stone on just couldnt force myself to go any further on them really dreading my barb life on my tr really tempted to save money up and use a couple of +5 hearts.

    Its not something I would vote against but I dont see a need for a change it is an epic feat after all

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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uska View Post
    Just dont think its to much of a requirement I do have 2 barbs both 16 one I played there the other I used a stone on just couldnt force myself to go any further on them really dreading my barb life on my tr really tempted to save money up and use a couple of +5 hearts.

    Its not something I would vote against but I dont see a need for a change it is an epic feat after all
    What is the difference?

    Either you need, as now: 21 CON and one feat slot (toughness).

    Or, with this suggestion: 21 CON and one feat slot (barb active PL or toughness).

    I don't see anything unbalanced in it.
    It's definitely an N-word.

  11. #11
    Hero karpedieme's Avatar
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    Default Active Past lives with Epic Feats Additions or reviews

    +1 to OP for this....

    I have noticed there is another active past life that does not qualify for an EPic feat.

    Active Past life Sorc.

    It does not qualify you for Epic evocation focus.

    It is used in heroic levels @ lvl 12 to replace evocation focus to qualify for tier 2 savant pre.

    This feat plays an intrinsic role as it substitutes an actual feat as requirement.

    Contrarily to Barb PL Active it ties into class based requirements for Pre-classes where barb PL does no such things for the class aside more HP.

    For epic Evocation you need evocation focus and Greater Evocation Focus..... Where the PAst Life taken feat acts asa sub for Evocation focus.... Leaves a loss people who have grinded the past life indeed.

    Dont get me wrong here I agree with the intent of the thread... I wholely agree Barb Past life should work as a pre-req for epic toughness.
    I think the value of Active Past Lives needs to be reviewed to prevent such further occurences possible with enhancements coming soon enough.

    Just some pro-active thinking in light of the enhancement trees coming can prevent frustration over short-sighted underviews with such massive changes as we have seen in U14

    I posted on MOTU launch and it fell on deaf ears. Sorcs are as feat starved as barb in certain respects. Quicken needs to be worked in most definitely now in Epic Elites, interuptions happen all the time... So one more feat required in a 7 shallow mix.

    Food for thought.

    Laters all have a good day.
    Last edited by karpedieme; 07-10-2012 at 09:59 AM.
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  12. #12
    Community Member Bilger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uska View Post
    Ok so its still to light and 21 still isnt to bad

    Reason I thought it was the free one is because it says passive I dont play barbs probally the reason I wont ever have completionist I dont find them fun
    Quote Originally Posted by Uska View Post
    Just dont think its to much of a requirement I do have 2 barbs both 16 one I played there the other I used a stone on just couldnt force myself to go any further on them really dreading my barb life on my tr really tempted to save money up and use a couple of +5 hearts.

    Its not something I would vote against but I dont see a need for a change it is an epic feat after all
    So from I won't have a completionist(because of barb) to having 2 barbs but can't stand them and dreading barb life.
    See my confusion now?

    Hating barbs and not wanting to play them justifies your argument about it being to light.

    Please, you haven't explained to us why it's light and should not be included as a "one of" requirement with toughness.

    Please enlighten me!!
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  13. #13
    Founder & Hero Uska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilger View Post
    So from I won't have a completionist(because of barb) to having 2 barbs but can't stand them and dreading barb life.
    See my confusion now?

    Hating barbs and not wanting to play them justifies your argument about it being to light.

    Please, you haven't explained to us why it's light and should not be included as a "one of" requirement with toughness.

    Please enlighten me!!

    Dont hate barbs just dont see a need to change the requirement for the epic feat. Its fine as is I imagine there are better epic feats to take over epic toughness anyways I mean most people likely should have enough hp without it and there are better things to pick.

    The ANTI-Realms FANBOI NUKE THE REALMS ITS THE ONLY REAL WAY TO BE SURE

  14. #14
    Community Member Bilger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uska View Post
    Dont hate barbs just dont see a need to change the requirement for the epic feat. Its fine as is I imagine there are better epic feats to take over epic toughness anyways I mean most people likely should have enough hp without it and there are better things to pick.
    I agree there are better things to choose but the hp lovers will want it and see no reason it shouldn't be included.

    Especially after they let it count for toughness where enhancements are concerned.
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  15. #15
    Community Member Munkenmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uska View Post
    Dont hate barbs just dont see a need to change the requirement for the epic feat. Its fine as is I imagine there are better epic feats to take over epic toughness anyways I mean most people likely should have enough hp without it and there are better things to pick.
    If you consider it a weak feat choice, should that be all the more reason to boost it's viability?

  16. #16
    Founder & Hero Uska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fTdOmen View Post
    If you consider it a weak feat choice, should that be all the more reason to boost it's viability?
    Not really I said I see no reason to change the prereqs for it and I have seen nothing here to change my mind.

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  17. #17
    Community Member Bilger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uska View Post
    Not really I said I see no reason to change the prereqs for it and I have seen nothing here to change my mind.
    You haven't given any reason for it not to be.

    It's not your mind we need to change it's the devs.

    I am all for it to be added.

    Personally will never use the feat but had to pipe in when idea gets put down with no clear argument on why.

    Seriously, the change should be made, but would prefer them to fix the 100's of bugs first.
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  18. #18
    Community Member Munkenmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uska View Post
    Not really I said I see no reason to change the prereqs for it and I have seen nothing here to change my mind.
    Toughness and Beserkers Fury as they stand now, (imo) they are mostly the same. They both require a feat slot, they both give a boost to hp, they both unlock Racial / Class Toughness enhancements.

    You are the only person speaking against the idea in this thread, yet at the time of your initial objection, you weren't even aware Beserkers Fury was the purchased past life feat.

    You say you see no reason to change the pre reqs, immediately after a post where you state that there are probably other better feats out there. I'm not sure if you realize it, but you seem to be contradicting yourself.

    I'm asking for one solution that doesn't involve power creep or nerfs, and is so obvious it could easily be a developer oversight. Implementing this suggestion would help with character diversity without hurting / nerfing / boosting anyone.
    Failing to implement this simply forces anyone who chose Beserkers Fury instead of Toughness to swap to a virtually identical feat, for no reason.

    Rather than sticking to telling it's too light, Please explain why or how?

    Finish this sentence for me,

    Even though Beserkers Fury has a great many parallels to Toughness, and even unlocks racial / class Toughness enhancements, I don't think Beserkers Fury should be added as an alternate pre req for Epic Toughness because :

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by fTdOmen View Post

    Finish this sentence for me,

    Even though Beserkers Fury has a great many parallels to Toughness, and even unlocks racial / class Toughness enhancements, I don't think Beserkers Fury should be added as an alternate pre req for Epic Toughness because :
    I don't think you're going to get much more than "... because, no?"

    Great idea, OP.

  20. #20
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    /signed.

    They changed it to grant toughness enhancements, might as well grant the pre-req for the epic toughness feat as well.

    Its not just a barbarian feat. Alot of builds take it in place of toughness, not in addition to toughness.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

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