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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow_Darkwalker View Post
    I am not asking Turbine to "meddle" in guild matters in which I mentioned before in the OP and again reitterated in a second post. All I am asking for is a measure in which I can attain that leadership
    This is a tough situation. On the one hand, SD lays out a pretty convincing moral case that he deserves to be the leader of the guild, his previous real-life issues notwithstanding. On the other hand, the categories of officer and non-officer exist for a reason, and there would be huge in-game ramifications across a great many guilds if non-officers -- who presumably hold that status precisely because they aren't trusted to run guild affairs -- were given the ability to usurp guild leadership.

    As a middle ground, perhaps a guild's founding member -- the guy who actually bought the initial charter and set up the guild -- could be given the opportunity to usurp when the leader goes idle and no officers step up to claim it? This would protect guilds against possible 'griefing' from disaffected founders and prevent generic non-officers from leapfrogging duly chosen guild leadership structures, but would address cases like SD's where a dormant guild still has sentimental value to its founder.

  2. #42
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    it does seem an unusual case. i feel for you, and i hope something can be done.

    best of luck.

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  3. #43
    Founder & Build Synthesis Battlehawke's Avatar
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    Default usurp

    The guild clearly is dead. It has no officers or leaders that are active. Its just a sad situation. At worst Turbine should promote the guy to officer and allow him to usurp the guild in a timely fashion. That would give other players some time to log in and fix it themselves, and if they don't, eventually allow him a chance to do what he wants. Also, as the only active officer it would allow hint to build the guild some...
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  4. #44
    Community Member Maxallu's Avatar
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    I understand handing leadership over to someone else, but why leave the guild entirely? You left the guild, the guild died. The guild is gone. Start up another or whatever.

  5. #45
    Community Member Shadow_Darkwalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxallu View Post
    I understand handing leadership over to someone else, but why leave the guild entirely? You left the guild, the guild died. The guild is gone. Start up another or whatever.

    No sir, I NEVER left the guild, I just had to stop playing due to real life issues. My characters have always remained in the guild the entire duration, from Launch date to current date. During my hiatus, my characters were at some point, demoted from officers to regular members (I will say I understand both sides of that, in why they were demoted, but also why they should have been left as officers, which, in the end, is a moot point now). which leads to the situation I am in now but point being, never once have any of my characters EVER left the guild.

    Mystyq is another case entirely, as she is a brand new toon (made last year when I re-subscribed to DDO). She is with a good friend of mine's guild for the time being until I can find a way to get her in the Underworld Legion, at which currently, I cannot.

    I hope that can clarify the misunderstanding.
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  6. #46
    Community Member wax_on_wax_off's Avatar
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    Something must be done.

    /signed to giving the guild back to SD
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  7. #47
    Community Member shastacola's Avatar
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    you dont have to be an officer to take over a guild. you just have to wait until people are logged out for a long time. i think it is 3 months/90 days for non officers to make a move. i did it on orion, thats how i know. yes it evil but some evils are a necessity for good to exist...

    but im thinking shadow isnt really reading the threads or he wouldnt be trying to write a novel in his defense.

    SO! you have 2 choices!
    A: wait it out and take it back
    OR
    B: start another guild and get over it. you obviously didnt care enough to log in from time to time and stay active so all in all its your lose.

    and again good luck
    Last edited by shastacola; 07-12-2012 at 08:53 PM.
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  8. #48
    Community Member Shadow_Darkwalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shastacola View Post
    you dont have to be an officer to take over a guild. you just have to wait until people are logged out for a long time. i think it is 3 months/90 days for non officers to make a move. i did it on orion, thats how i know. yes it evil but some evils are a necessity for good to exist...

    and again good luck
    Umm, I have been reading the threads, but I dont think you have read them all yet. Please see my post on page two, which has screenshots of my guild roster. If you will take a closer look, you will see that I have no option to take over the guild, nor have I had the option to take over the guild for quite some time now. As I have stated previously, I have been re-subscribed for about a year now and still have no option to over take, clearly going well beyond that "3 month" mark. And I did care enough about the guild but, as you failed to understand, I could not log in. Real life issues will matter first and foremost over anything, we all know this so believe me, if I could have logged in, I would have.

    I thank you for the well wishes though, and many thanks to the many others who give their support. I am hopeful that your point is looked at though and something be done that can help. If indeed that is the way it is supposed to be, than something clearly isnt right to begin with.
    May the darkness guide you: Mydnight Darkwalker, 14 Rogue | Alts: Silhouette Darkwalker, 9 Bard/5 Cleric/1 Sorceress; Knyghtshade Darkwalker, 13 Paladin; Mythril Darkwalker, 11 Ranger/1 Rogue; Mystyq Darkwalker, 6 Wizard/3 Sorceress.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by shastacola View Post
    you dont have to be an officer to take over a guild. you just have to wait until people are logged out for a long time. i think it is 3 months/90 days for non officers to make a move. i did it on orion, thats how i know. yes it evil but some evils are a necessity for good to exist...

    but im thinking shadow isnt really reading the threads or he wouldnt be trying to write a novel in his defense.

    SO! you have 2 choices!
    A: wait it out and take it back
    OR
    B: start another guild and get over it. you obviously didnt care enough to log in from time to time and stay active so all in all its your lose.

    and again good luck
    I knew Turbine did some changes on Usurp, but got a lot of resistance on the forums so it was not implemented. It was something like 30 days for officers if no successor and another 30 days if not members.

    Then Turbine did some milder changes a few updates ago. Searching the forums, this is what I found regarding Update 11:

    "Guilds

    Officers can now usurp a guild after 60 days if there is no successor, or if the successor has been inactive for 60 days."

    So I guess Turbine removed the member usurping ability and only for officers, and extending it to 60 days.

    Erm, best of luck to the OP and welcome back to the game. Hope something works out for you.

  10. #50
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    Indeed, Turbine proposed a certain ruleset for the ability of officers to take over, when leader and successor are absent and members to take over when officers also don't.


    Unfortunately the players didn't like that. Many of the leaders and officers of the most successful guilds cried foul at the very idea of a member usurping. After airships real money could have been invested into guilds and the possibility of the founder buying a ship, then being away for real life issues some time while his trusted friends don't take over out of respect until some unknown, new member without close ties to the former leader makes the coup and expells everyone else, was so horrible that they claimed members should never be able to claim a guild.

    They reasoned, if leaders and all officers are away from the game, the guild is dead anyway and no one would want to have it . Those cases would be only theoretical. They claimed, single members who are not trusted with officer status would not represent the guild enough, even if the rest was inactive.


    Turbine listened to its customers. While the whole succession-by-members was already coded, it got scrapped and the succession by officers made a bit more difficult then originally planned.

  11. #51
    Community Member wax_on_wax_off's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satinavian View Post
    Indeed, Turbine proposed a certain ruleset for the ability of officers to take over, when leader and successor are absent and members to take over when officers also don't.


    Unfortunately the players didn't like that. Many of the leaders and officers of the most successful guilds cried foul at the very idea of a member usurping. After airships real money could have been invested into guilds and the possibility of the founder buying a ship, then being away for real life issues some time while his trusted friends don't take over out of respect until some unknown, new member without close ties to the former leader makes the coup and expells everyone else, was so horrible that they claimed members should never be able to claim a guild.

    They reasoned, if leaders and all officers are away from the game, the guild is dead anyway and no one would want to have it . Those cases would be only theoretical. They claimed, single members who are not trusted with officer status would not represent the guild enough, even if the rest was inactive.


    Turbine listened to its customers. While the whole succession-by-members was already coded, it got scrapped and the succession by officers made a bit more difficult then originally planned.
    So while the original plan was changed to avoid certain worst case scenarios we have new worst case scenarios to consider. I haven't read the founders statue but if the OPs name is there with his guild and that character is still part of that guild albeit at member status then I think that is evidence enough that he cares enough about his guild to have been in it for some 6 years.

    Someone needs to step up and promote this guy to officer, it would be a shame to see a founding guild go to dust when there's someone willing to go miles and miles to stop it from happening.
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  12. #52
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    Well, i was in the minority that wanted a member usurp option then...


    Yes, i really hope, the op gets his guild back and leads it to new glory.

  13. #53
    Community Member shastacola's Avatar
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    if you look at one of his earlier posts has links to the guild roster and the last officer to log in was what? over 3yrs ago. i think if he contacts turbine they could help his case and if not, that really sucks!!!

    leaders and officers have a responsibility to their guild and members to log in from time to time if they want a "live" guild. real life isnt all that crazy for 1 of them to check in. 3+yrs is a bit out of order and shows no care for guild, members or the game.

    i can see how important it is to you to keep your guild, being a founding guild and all that, but gone for 6 yrs is far too long to want to come back and think someone is just gonna hand it over. personally i wouldnt allow any member to be gone for 6 yrs. your lucky if i keep you in over 6 months inactive. dead weight gets tossed out...
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  14. #54
    Community Member Yagi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TWDiggs1980 View Post
    I want my soul back. It was taken from me about 10 years ago after I lost an air hockey match. I wasn't really using it at the time and well the money that was placed up for bet if I won was a hefty chunk. I have since offered them twice what was to have been my winnings had I actually won(10 dollars) but they claim to have misplaced my soul and are unable to locate it atm. (I don't by this one bit) I personally believe that they are using it for satanic purposes and just don't want to return it. I have talked to a lawyer that believes that I might have legal recourse in this matter as it was specificly stated on my part in the wager that if they won they could only use my soul as a decorative tool and could not use it for evil. Does anyone have any experience in this matter as any advice would be welcome.
    As a person who has actually accepted numerous written pledges of souls in lieu of cash during the course of gambling I can safely say that it is going to cost you alot of money to get it back/and/or some very lopsided swinging that you the soulee will not actually get to participate in. But the details will be made known to you. On multiple occasions. In public.

    If they actually broke the terms of your agreement you can consider the papertrail to have been voided and your soul to be safe, unless you directly pledged your soul to them without caveat within the document. That would be silly.

    It may be worth the expense and possible physical debasement of your spouse to regain your soul if the document does in fact grant ownership of it to the bearer of said document. Although you specified "no evil" there is unfortunately a large grey area that may be exploited at your expense.

    Example: A person is in heaven, and they encounter this person that now owns their soul:
    Souler: Well hello there. Mow my lawn.
    Soulee: This is heaven, I dont have to toil, go away.
    Souler: Well according to this document, I own your immortal soul, I am pretty sure that means you have to mow my lawn.
    Soulee: You're not even supposed to have that, I won!
    Souler: You did not come back for it, it became common property once you abandoned it and it showed up in the lost and found which is what I call my pocket, I claimed it after 90 days.
    Soulee:Thats not fair.
    Souler: Would you like to take this up with management? I'm sure she'd be interested in hearing about how you gambled with your field equipment.
    Soulee: Fine, I'll mow your lawn....
    Souler: Chew faster.

    Do you want an eternity of having to worry about this sort of thing? I didnt think so.
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  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by wax_on_wax_off View Post
    Something must be done.

    /signed to giving the guild back to SD
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  16. #56
    Community Member Shadow_Darkwalker's Avatar
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    @ Shasta: I agree with you in a sort, which is why when I left the guild, I left it in the hands of someone else BEFORE I left. It would be irresponsible to the guild for me to leave while still "leading" the guild. While your "dead weight" theory holds merit nowadays, it did not back then. Decay was not in the scenario back in those days .... however, I see your point and agree with you to an extent. Although, I could argue that the same argument applies currently, being as I am the only one active within the guild. So if we apply that theory to now, that "dead weight" would leave only me and Wryn, who came to check out the Menace update. What I dont agree with, is the fact that ... well, some things are worth holding on to, if not for memory alone ... but thats just one man's opinion.

    @ Satinavian: Again, while that argument holds truth nowadays, it did not back then. There were no airships or other forms of financial value placed on guilds back then. So again, I will state that IF there were presently people in the guild, and there were any attachments to it, I would concede it to them and try to merely blend in once more with my guildmates (meaning, I would STILL be a part of my guild) however, there is not and are not hence why I have brought this forward.

    Simultaneously, I have waited for about a year's time to pass before ever bringing this petition forward, so it isnt like I have just come back 2 weeks ago trying to get my guild back.

    And Yagi, Diggs ... look, I get it. It has been awhile ... a long while but, I am here now and have been for about a year now. No one else is here (in the guild) but me, I have given it a year and it is still just me. This is the reason for my petition because in light of your opinion, though respectfully noted, I did return for it, albeit after some due time. Alternatively, no one else is, by your witty metaphor, "laying claim" to it. Although, I think I would not consider my guild my soul, as that would be apples and oranges really, being as you can always get or find a new guild but, you only get one soul.

    Anyways, again thanks to all the many supporters and well-wishers (including Satinavian & Shasta ), as always it is greatly appreciated.
    Last edited by Shadow_Darkwalker; 07-13-2012 at 03:04 PM.
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  17. #57
    Community Member shastacola's Avatar
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    feel your pain, just trying to help, cheers
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  18. #58
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    A) The guild that was created as a founding guild then died when either everyone left or there is no activity.
    B) The claim that your guild is a part of Khyber history is kind of over pompous. Maybe if you change is to was you would be more correct.
    C) People who want to currently join your guild can't. That is definitely a problem, but really, do you think they want to join because it is the "founder" guild or because they like grouping with you? If it is the former, then create another guild.


    As another purely devil's advocate part:

    A) What if the current leader returns after taking 5 years off for his own real life stuff?
    B) As nice as this cause is, if it is fixed, it will take some time from someone who works at Turbine. There is a limited amount of time. Is this case as import as say helping someone restore a character that was bugged and had everything deleted? As researching or documenting an important bug? How about a minor bug but one that effects everyone?
    C) Getting the first GM overruled will take even more time for Turbine...

    Anyway, if you keep pestering them, they might change it for you, or you might be out of luck anyway. Best of luck with it. My suggestion is create a new guild with a very similar name.

    And finally, a syntax remark. Asking people to sign a petition implies that they sympathize or believe in your cause. So there is a request for sympathy

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  19. #59
    Community Member jakeelala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow_Darkwalker View Post
    Umm, I have been reading the threads, but I dont think you have read them all yet. Please see my post on page two, which has screenshots of my guild roster. If you will take a closer look, you will see that I have no option to take over the guild, nor have I had the option to take over the guild for quite some time now. As I have stated previously, I have been re-subscribed for about a year now and still have no option to over take, clearly going well beyond that "3 month" mark. And I did care enough about the guild but, as you failed to understand, I could not log in. Real life issues will matter first and foremost over anything, we all know this so believe me, if I could have logged in, I would have.

    I thank you for the well wishes though, and many thanks to the many others who give their support. I am hopeful that your point is looked at though and something be done that can help. If indeed that is the way it is supposed to be, than something clearly isnt right to begin with.
    I believe this is because the guild is so old. Somehow older guilds seemed to have missed the auto-depose changes that came later.

    I used to be in UL. In fact, I was left in charge as a officer when Dark had to leave game. I, with a lot of the players in the guild at the time, left to merge with another Khyber guild (The Free Companions) back BEFORE the Demon Sands pack. I'm not sure what happened with UL after that, but I can vouch that Dark was in fact the person who started the guild, and had always been the leader. There is NO dispute about that. Funnily enough I don't have any of the characters left anymore who were originally in that guild. Back then my main was Lunchtime Delicious. What's up, Dark? Good crypt runs the other day buddy. Sorry I wasn't able to leave you a more complete guild to come back to, but that was 5 years ago >.<

    Turbine should step in and help here.

    -jake

    Update: I went to check out Turbones undelete page. I was going to pay $20 to have an old toon undeleted who might have been in UL at the time of deletion. All of my toons were officers at the time. However, according to the undelete FAQ, Guild information and status is not retained, so it wouldn't have helped. Oh well.
    Last edited by jakeelala; 07-13-2012 at 03:38 PM.

  20. #60
    Community Member Shadow_Darkwalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jakeelala View Post
    I believe this is because the guild is so old. Somehow older guilds seemed to have missed the auto-depose changes that came later.

    I used to be in UL. In fact, I was left in charge as a officer when Dark had to leave game. I, with a lot of the players in the guild at the time, left to merge with another Khyber guild (The Free Companions) back BEFORE the Demon Sands pack. I'm not sure what happened with UL after that, but I can vouch that Dark was in fact the person who started the guild, and had always been the leader. There is NO dispute about that. Funnily enough I don't have any of the characters left anymore who were originally in that guild. Back then my main was Lunchtime Delicious. What's up, Dark? Good crypt runs the other day buddy. Sorry I wasn't able to leave you a more complete guild to come back to, but that was 5 years ago >.<

    Turbine should step in and help here.

    -jake

    Update: I went to check out Turbones undelete page. I was going to pay $20 to have an old toon undeleted who might have been in UL at the time of deletion. All of my toons were officers at the time. However, according to the undelete FAQ, Guild information and status is not retained, so it wouldn't have helped. Oh well.
    LunchBox!!! (another of his old toons heh) What's up man. By the way, not sure if I told you this in our groups but, it is really great to speak to one of the old crew again, brings back some good times.

    As well, awesome that you were trying to help man, that is very much appreciated and unfortunate it wouldnt have helped at the same time, but the sentiment means something to me dude. The effort will be repaid somehow, I assure you.

    As for the person who thinks Founder's Guilds are dead and buried and no one cares about them, I'm sorry but you would be surprised just how many people disagree with you. You may not be nostalgic or "sympathetic", but many are and I am one of them. And you are right, it is sympathy, but its sympathy for the guild and what it stands for, and not for myself, as you have misunderstood it to be.
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