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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Therigar View Post

    OTOH, my current bowbarian build is very similar to what you've posted. I swap rogue for fighter and do without 2 feats but pick up evasion. At least that's my present plan. Not full convinced that evasion is worthwhile given that the build has an inherently low reflex save. But, that's what I've got in the works ATM.
    How do you get a low reflex save on an AA (longbow) build that isn't zen without gimping your attack? Just curious.

  2. #42
    Community Member Therigar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by savingsoul View Post
    How do you get a low reflex save on an AA (longbow) build that isn't zen without gimping your attack? Just curious.
    Ah, well to start with you only invest enough DEX to qualify the feats being taken. Then, you follow that by discarding the bow in favor of THF whenever mobs are around.

    The AA feats and enhancements are more of a "just because I can do it" than a "wow, what a great build."

  3. #43
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    My TWF non-evasion 18brb/2f helf rog dille could get to a 44 trap save without a pallie aura at level 20 and a starting 15 dex (only a 2 tome on that guy). I'm not sure what it is after U14 at level 25 though. Regardless, I think you'd be surprised what you can get up to with a barb with a little effort.

    Her previous life was 12rng/8brb (dorf, yech!) with just enough dex for tempest for 100% offhand frenzy awesomeness. This introduced me to the awesomeness of manyshot and high strength (well, 58str). I sure couldn't hit Lailat and with the lack of gear had a terrible reflex save (couldn't even save on ToD fire ele's on normal on a 2... so sad).

  4. #44
    Community Member Therigar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whittey View Post
    My TWF non-evasion 18brb/2f helf rog dille could get to a 44 trap save without a pallie aura at level 20 and a starting 15 dex (only a 2 tome on that guy). I'm not sure what it is after U14 at level 25 though. Regardless, I think you'd be surprised what you can get up to with a barb with a little effort.

    Her previous life was 12rng/8brb (dorf, yech!) with just enough dex for tempest for 100% offhand frenzy awesomeness. This introduced me to the awesomeness of manyshot and high strength (well, 58str). I sure couldn't hit Lailat and with the lack of gear had a terrible reflex save (couldn't even save on ToD fire ele's on normal on a 2... so sad).
    The obvious attraction of a bowbarian is the ability to use Bow Strength on a crazy high STR character. But, as you point out, ranged to hit is DEX based. That means putting in the DEX to make sure you hit all of the time regardless of content.

    It doesn't do any good to have a massive STR if you can't hit the target when you shoot.

    So, generally speaking, a choice has to be made.

    For some that means passing on the melee feats in order to maximize the ranged feats. There is a lot of support for this AA approach. You are really, really good at ranged and meh, ok at melee.

    The other approach is to be good at melee and alright at ranged.

    The challenge is this: With a barbarian there are usually only enough feats to pick one or the other. So, you end up shorting one side of the equation or the other.

    My experience is that people tend to expect barbarians to be crushing heads and not standing off going plink, plink, plink. And, there are so few quests where the encounter distance favors range that mobs end up "In you're FACE!"

    Because it is, at some level any way, a group game, it just seems to me that it is easier to be able to pull out melee weapons and do some serious damage when that happens.

    Going full on frenzied berserker requires at least Power Attack and Cleave. But, you sort of need that full raging mountain of death to really feel the joy of bowbarian.

    That is what makes fitting in the right choice of feats so difficult. And, if you are going pure barbarian then you are limited to elf or half-elf for race -- meaning 7 feats to L20, 9 feats total to L25.

    It makes feat selection tough.

    My choice is to go with minimal DEX and be mostly melee that happens to also be able to pull out AA when it seems useful. IMO the game favors that more than the mostly ranged that happens to be able to melee.

    Of course, everyone is different. Neither is an absolute.

  5. #45
    Community Member Therigar's Avatar
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    With level cap now at L25 and some room to grow, here is a concept for a pure barbarian with sorcerer past life.

    To work it must level thru L21 and then use the (currently) free LR to rearrange itself. That is because it takes 8 feats to work and won't get the last feat until L21.

    The build sacrifices the THF line and glancing blows and also all the melee feats except Power Attack and Cleave (required for Frenzied Berserker).

    It misses out on Improved Precise Shot (showing just how hard it is to try and get everything on one build). An assumption is that the bow of choice is either Keen or has Precision.

    And, while benefiting from berserker STR increases and Power Attack it might still lose out in overall damage to 10k star builds that can keep up a higher rate of fire.

    Anyway, here it is, level increases go to DEX (after using planner I hand jammed the epic level info):

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.14.01
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Level 25 True Neutral Half-Elf
    (20 Barbarian/5 Epic) 
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (34 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 25)
    Strength             17                    22
    Dexterity            17                    28
    Constitution         15                    20
    Intelligence          8                    11
    Wisdom                8                    11
    Charisma              8                    11
    
    Tomes Used
    +1 Tome of Strength used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Constitution used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Charisma used at level 3
    +2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
    +3 Tome of Strength used at level 11
    +3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 11
    +3 Tome of Constitution used at level 11
    +3 Tome of Intelligence used at level 11
    +3 Tome of Wisdom used at level 11
    +3 Tome of Charisma used at level 11
    
    
    Level 1 (Barbarian)
    Feat: (Half-Elf Dilettante) Half-Elf Dilettante: Ranger
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Sorcerer
    Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot
    
    
    Level 2 (Barbarian)
    
    
    Level 3 (Barbarian)
    Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
    
    
    Level 4 (Barbarian)
    
    
    Level 5 (Barbarian)
    
    
    Level 6 (Barbarian)
    Feat: (Selected) Cleave
    
    
    Level 7 (Barbarian)
    
    
    Level 8 (Barbarian)
    
    
    Level 9 (Barbarian)
    Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Ranged Weapons
    
    
    Level 10 (Barbarian)
    
    
    Level 11 (Barbarian)
    
    
    Level 12 (Barbarian)
    Feat: (Selected) Rapid Shot
    
    
    Level 13 (Barbarian)
    
    
    Level 14 (Barbarian)
    
    
    Level 15 (Barbarian)
    Feat: (Selected) Manyshot
    
    
    Level 16 (Barbarian)
    
    
    Level 17 (Barbarian)
    
    
    Level 18 (Barbarian)
    Feat: (Selected) Bow Strength
    
    
    Level 19 (Barbarian)
    
    
    Level 20 (Barbarian)
    
    Level 21 (Epic)
    Feat: (Selected) Precise Shot or Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons
    
    Level 22 (Epic)
    
    
    Level 23 (Epic)
    
    
    Level 24 (Epic)
    Feat: (Selected) Past Life: Arcane Prodigy
    
    
    Level 25 (Epic)
    Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost I
    Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost II
    Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost III
    Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost IV
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Acid Arrows
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Explosive Arrows
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Force Arrows
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Force Burst Arrows
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Slaying Arrows
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Terror Arrows
    Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage I
    Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage II
    Enhancement: Barbarian Extra Rage I
    Enhancement: Barbarian Extra Rage II
    Enhancement: Barbarian Hardy Rage I
    Enhancement: Barbarian Hardy Rage II
    Enhancement: Barbarian Power Attack I
    Enhancement: Barbarian Power Attack II
    Enhancement: Barbarian Power Attack III
    Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage I
    Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage II
    Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage III
    Enhancement: Barbarian Frenzied Berserker I
    Enhancement: Barbarian Frenzied Berserker II
    Enhancement: Barbarian Frenzied Berserker III
    Enhancement: Barbarian Willpower I
    Enhancement: Barbarian Might
    Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
    Enhancement: Elven Dexterity II
    Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
    Enhancement: Human Versatility I
    Enhancement: Human Versatility II
    Enhancement: Human Versatility III
    Enhancement: Human Versatility IV
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +2 Arrows
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +3 Arrows
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +4 Arrows
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +5 Arrows
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer I
    Enhancement: Barbarian Constitution I
    Enhancement: Barbarian Constitution II
    IMO the build is problematic, which is why I went with STR based on my actual character and retained the melee focus. But, at least it gives a hint at what might be possible to a full FB bowbarian.

  6. #46
    Community Member 96th_Malice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Therigar View Post
    IMO the build is problematic, which is why I went with STR based on my actual character and retained the melee focus. But, at least it gives a hint at what might be possible to a full FB bowbarian.
    On a new barbarian using a bow you are very correct. However with an old school bow barian and the crit threat range enh X2, the toon is a very viable ranged first option.

    It was unfortunate that the toon can't be re-rolled as the crit range enhancements have been nerfed for quite some time.

    So happy that going from lvl 20-25 wil allow for arcane archer with by 14 barb / 6 ranger build.

    Crits on the radiance II bow ( or any crit based bow ) are devistating while raged even wihout manyshot.

    Now I just need to finish capping Katnyss so I can move onto the bow barian and the other 16 arcane archers !

    " Elize Ryd - Officer @ Band of Gypsys "


    " Trapped in my skin - See the nexus in my dreams - But will you bury me within? "

    Amaranthe - The NeXuS

  7. #47
    Community Member sephiroth1084's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Therigar View Post

    [/code]IMO the build is problematic, which is why I went with STR based on my actual character and retained the melee focus. But, at least it gives a hint at what might be possible to a full FB bowbarian.
    I think you'd be MUCH better off with 2 levels of fighter, or a level of fighter and a level of ranger, or even 1 fighter and 1 wizard or artificer than with barbarian 19 and 20. The last 2 levels give you what? +4 Str, +2 Con, +1 to Will saves and an additional point of DR? Versus 2 feats, which could be Improved Precise Shot and Improved Critical.

    18/2 fighter
    Power Attack
    Cleave
    Point Blank Shot
    Precise Shot
    Weapon Focus
    Improved Critical
    Rapid Shot
    Manyshot
    Improved Precise Shot
    Bow Strength
    Past Life: Arcane Prodigy

    1 wizard gets you Mental Toughness as your bonus feat and a couple of mediocre spells and wand access.
    1 artificer gets you Rapid Reload for (apparently) +5% ranged attack speed with bows.

    You can qualify for AA with 1 AP in either casting class instead of having to pick up a feat. With wizard, you're limited on what feats you can choose anyway, and as an AA it's nice to have a bit of extra SP to refresh buffs if you die. With artificer, you gain a little more ranged DPS, and can hit yourself with Enchant Weapons for +1 attack and damage when a real artificer isn't around. Fighter allows you to recoup 1 of your lost 4 Str at level 2, and gives you the option of picking up Haste Boost I if you have other desires for your Twists (such as Echoes of the Ancestors: Shiradi). 1 Ranger gets you wand access (Cure Light, Moderate, Serious, and Resist Energy as the useful ones) and a favored enemy for +3 damage vs. Evil Outsiders probably.
    Useful links: A Guide to Using a Gamepad w/ DDO / All Caster Shroud, Hard Shroud, VoD, ToD Einhander, Elochka, Ferrumrym, Ferrumdermis, Ferrumshot, Ferrumblood, Ferrumender, Ferrumshadow, Ferrumschtik All proud officers of The Loreseekers. Except Bruucelee, he's a Sentinel!

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