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  1. #21
    The Hatchery BruceTheHoon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by v.p. View Post
    too bad for you, really.



    there is a _comma_ between "cosmetics" and "p2w". reading skills require improvement?

    PS. hereby i do release you from obligation to respond on my posts further on.
    Won't go into sentence structuring debate. Comma is not the alpha & omega of conveying a message. Words generally play a greater role.

    My reading comprehension is however, without a doubt, good enough to notice, that you haven't said which money making - generally p2w features have they preposterously had the time to implement, that aren't part of the expansion. Meaning part of the game itself.

    P.S.: It's not an obligation. It's general curiosity and annoyance with people hiding behind vagueness.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varashad View Post
    ... the cooldown timer added to Supreme Cleave. ... one of the only sustainable and useful melee AoE damage abilities, and nerf it by giving it a cool down... It just doesn't make any sense to me.
    AoE Terror maybe - that's a massive DC, will-based save, that is now on randomly generated loot. Turbine have acted to "nerf" all mass insta-kills in the game - a change that even as a PM, I can agree with.

    If casters can't do it, why should Melee, and, as already pointed out in this thread, every *other* tactical ability has a CD.
    Walchek @ Ghallanda

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan220 View Post
    I was sat here reading the forum and all its negativity and was thinking that Im glad I dont work for Turbine because.......

    If I make a mistake in work, it costs a fair bit of money and may inconvenience a few peopleso I apologise and we all move on - after all, it was a mistake and nothing malicious was intended.

    Turbine employee makes a mistake and the community is very vocal and in many cases quite rude. But it doesnt just get left at that. The same mistakes are regurgitated in post after post like a picked at open sore. If someone at Turbine has had an arse kicking for these mistakes then I expect they feel pretty bitter about the forum right now. When I make a mistake its dealt with and left behind, as I am fortunate not to have someone constantly reminding my boss of what happened
    There's a sentiment in the office that people who have nothing to gripe about play the game and don't post on the forum. Feedback is important to us, and reading and processing the volume of posts takes a certain skill set (to separate general purpose whining from action items). Because of this, forum participation is optional. More often than not we simply don't have the time.

    Forums are a tool for us, but it's not the only tool we have for feedback, and by far not the most useful (too much noise/signal in many cases).

    Upsetting? That's silly. Nobody here gets berated based on "what the forums say". We have lots of data, numbers that show how content is played, what's difficult, whats' not, how many people DIE every day in a certain quest, that sort of thing. (Shroud, the deadliest quest, because everybody dies at least once...)

    The classic example where a player, upset with a recent change, throws a threatening wall of text about unsubscribing, then goes back to playing and doesn't even check back on the thread he started. How useful are the forums to find out whether the change caused that person to quit or not? Not very. But we have data from the live servers, the data that doesn't lie. That's a lot more useful. And a single graph can tell a lot more than a hundred such posts. Because data is a lot more objective. It shows what actually happens.

    Here's the posts I like to read, personally: short, concise, to the point: Change A is bad/confusing/not fun/awesome because it does B/C/D/rest of alphabet to my expectations/guildies/main/alt/loot/experience/mood. Is that WAI?

    The posts I tend to skip over: Tolstoy's War And Peace WALL OF TEXT CRITS YOU IN ALL CAPS AND NO PUNCTUATION FOR GAZILLION DAMAGE AND THEN KEEPS ON GOING AND GOING AND GOING AND GOING AND REGURGITATING AND THROWING UP AND OMG EMOTIONAL ROLLERCOASTER ENGINE OF TERROR THAT JUST WON'T STOP TYPING REPEATING everything it already said three times.

    Personal feelings have no place in feedback evaluation. That's just simple professionalism. This is the official forum. Wear a thick skin and abandon all hope all ye who enter here.

    Also, the sentiment here in the office right now is exhausted and excited. The expansion is live. Finally. We've put a lot of work into it. Working on the patch now. No amount of forum trolling will affect the atmosphere here in any way.
    From dev meeting: "It's fun to fail!"
    "Grouping in MMOs is 1d6 players pretending to like each other long enough to start drama over loot."
    "There is a way to implement it but it’s got so many red flags it’s like communism."
    "That tears it. I need to get a donkey."

  4. #24
    Community Member Feralthyrtiaq's Avatar
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    Default Some could have been prevented....

    ....by IN HOUSE PLAY TESTERS PLAYING A LIVE VERSION THAT IS NOT AVAILABLE TO PLAYERS!!!!


    I could just wipe the grease off the outside of the servo motors I repair. Give a nice coat of paint and return it to my CUSTOMER and get paid.

    But there's more to it than that...

    I tear them down...

    Clean everything...

    Inspect bearing fits...

    Inspect housing fits...

    Rewind the stator...

    Etc etc etc...

    and inspect along the way as I go...

    Are the coils good before I assemble it...

    Are the coils good after assembly...

    Does the rotor turn smoothly..

    AND MANY MANY OTHER INSPECTIONS BEFORE I TEST IT LIVE UNDER LOAD TO ENSURE IT WORKS PROPERLY BEFORE GIVING TO MY CUSTOMER.

    In a professional environment IT ABSOLUTELY CANNOT BE...

    Here try this...

    Here try this...

    Here try this...

    We know it doesn't work but...

    Try this...

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlimsyFirewood View Post
    The expansion is live. Finally. We've put a lot of work into it. Working on the patch now. No amount of forum trolling will affect the atmosphere here in any way.
    Believe me or not, I've seen not so much trolling toward Turbine on the forum myself. Complains about quality, complains about not fulfilled commitments (look at your last release notes and bug list created for you) - yes, quite an amount.

    I am happy to hear that everybody in the office is happy with MotU going live and ignore "trolling" on forum posts.

    PS. Looking at the death/usage/entry/leave quest/area/raid statistic etc may prove itself very interesting, however I'd prefer that you would avoid "manual sunset techniques" in the design and implementation of this particular game.
    Last edited by v.p.; 06-28-2012 at 10:03 AM.
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  6. #26
    Community Member Silex_Molior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlimsyFirewood View Post
    Here's the posts I like to read, personally: short, concise, to the point: Change A is bad/confusing/not fun/awesome because it does B/C/D/rest of alphabet to my expectations/guildies/main/alt/loot/experience/mood. Is that WAI?
    Offering 900 Turbine Points worth of airship amenities does not cover the costs of 2 consecutive patches which wiped out our airships.

    Platinum is not real money, its fake. There should be no issue with sending each Guild Leader (and you have a database for determining this) an amount of platinum based on their current ship size. 100k, 200k, 300k, platinum, via in-game mail. You have the tech for this.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlimsyFirewood View Post
    The classic example where a player, upset with a recent change, throws a threatening wall of text about unsubscribing, then goes back to playing and doesn't even check back on the thread he started. How useful are the forums to find out whether the change caused that person to quit or not? Not very. But we have data from the live servers, the data that doesn't lie. That's a lot more useful. And a single graph can tell a lot more than a hundred such posts. Because data is a lot more objective. It shows what actually happens.
    Do those graphs that record deaths tell you how much people enjoy the spikes in the middle of VoD?

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feralthyrtiaq View Post
    I could just wipe the grease off the outside of the servo motors I repair. Give a nice coat of paint and return it to my CUSTOMER and get paid.

    (...)
    It appears you neither work with software nor for a broad audience. Software development gets exponentially more difficult if you factor in the broad range of customer's configurations and their behavior for expample.

    If you hand over a servo motor, you can assume that the customer who uses it has a general idea what hes doing, and you know the general purpose for which it is going to be used, so you can test for this ahead. There is a whole world of difference between this and developing games.

  9. #29
    Community Member maddmatt70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan220 View Post
    I was sat here reading the forum and all its negativity and was thinking that Im glad I dont work for Turbine because.......


    If I make a mistake in work, it costs a fair bit of money and may inconvenience a few peopleso I apologise and we all move on - after all, it was a mistake and nothing malicious was intended.


    Turbine employee makes a mistake and the community is very vocal and in many cases quite rude. But it doesnt just get left at that. The same mistakes are regurgitated in post after post like a picked at open sore. If someone at Turbine has had an arse kicking for these mistakes then I expect they feel pretty bitter about the forum right now. When I make a mistake its dealt with and left behind, as I am fortunate not to have someone constantly reminding my boss of what happened


    As for the rest of the Turbine team, I expect theyre pretty bitter over the whole affair too. They've (I assume) tried their best to release a good expansion and because it has come out with a few hiccups in it (and this was expected) many people have gone way over the top.



    Of course people are upset, but (and I truely appreciate the addictiveness and escapism that DDO provides) its only a game to us.



    To Turbine employees its their livelihood and excessive criticism may be upsetting, be career limiting or a myriad of other things.


    Im not kissing Turbines arse here, Im just saying that there are real people involved
    Well the fact is when people post positive threads or the like on the forums nobody really comments on them so they just disappear quickly and they are not even really seen. People for some reason like to respond to criticism and negativity more so then concurrence and agreement.

    I posted a thread on the second day of the new update commending the developer team on the new quests and the explorer areas and I do not think there was a single response to the thread. I am very impressed by the thematic, art, quality, gameplay, monsters, really everything in the new quests and explorer areas. My opinion is this update is worth the price/cost of the expansion as the destinies and epic levels are fun as well and the content is one of the best by Turbine ever. I have not tried a druid yet either, but I am looking forward to it.
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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ertay View Post
    It appears you neither work with software nor for a broad audience. Software development gets exponentially more difficult if you factor in the broad range of customer's configurations and their behavior for expample.

    If you hand over a servo motor, you can assume that the customer who uses it has a general idea what hes doing, and you know the general purpose for which it is going to be used, so you can test for this ahead. There is a whole world of difference between this and developing games.

    Oh fer fricks sakes.. I'm so sick of hearing about how "hard" software development is.... It's a fircken job, either you do it well or you don't.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ertay View Post
    It appears you neither work with software nor for a broad audience. Software development gets exponentially more difficult if you factor in the broad range of customer's configurations and their behavior for expample.
    Oh c'mon folks, do not make a "rocket science" out of the simple task of coding. There are no magic, just resources, professionalism, discipline & control. There are much more sophisticated software products around with a way better shipment & release quality; working for entertainment industry doesn't grant anyone an allowance to release deep beta (quality wise) to your customers.
    Valaere Do'Ana/Doomdancers@Argonessen
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  12. #32
    Hero BurnerD's Avatar
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    Glad you have that mentality Flimsy. Forum feedback seems to almost always two extremes.. completely useless or extremely helpful.

    I think many of the forumites are amongst your most dedicated players. After reading many of the posts the general concern seems to be the ratio of effort that goes into game balancing vs fixing gameplay issues.

    Now that you have hit your target and released the expansion I would hope the short term focus would be to fix,fix,fix. I for one would accept a skip in the content cycle for a period of patches to repair new and long-standing issues.

    Thanks
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  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daemoneyes View Post
    This Update wasnt ready for release POINT
    if its the employs or there bosses to blame for i dunno and honestly i dont care

    which i care for is
    a) apparently untested update, so much bugs and errors cant go through QA without them knowing it
    b) almost no communication with the Playerbase

    and honestly it would be enough to satisfy one of the two points and the Playerbase (including me) would be ok with it
    but when u deliver a bug infested update and then only silence follows its only natural that a ****storm arises
    The lack of communication from Turbine on the downtime issues on Father's day weekend and since the update is what really bothers me also. Mistakes are made, that is human nature. What defines us is how we handle those mistakes. The fact that Turbine won't own up to them, or try to make them right speaks volumes about them.

  14. #34
    Community Manager Cordovan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mudfud View Post
    Do those graphs that record deaths tell you how much people enjoy the spikes in the middle of VoD?
    In many cases that's one of the tasks Tolero and I have for DDO (along with other members of the community team.) One of the things we do is process opinions and sentiment, quantify it, put it into a form that is actionable, and make sure that the people working on a particular area are aware of it. Not just "what do people on the forums think", but also from web sites, social networks, in-game chatter, etc.

    Trust me when I say if you've posted your opinion about a subject on the forums, there's a very good chance someone here has seen it. We obviously can't respond to everyone, but someone's at least seen it.

    ...and you're telling me you LIKE the spikes, right?
    Have fun, and don't forget to gather for buffs!
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  15. #35
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlimsyFirewood View Post
    Here's the posts I like to read, personally: short, concise, to the point: Change A is bad/confusing/not fun/awesome because it does B/C/D/rest of alphabet to my expectations/guildies/main/alt/loot/experience/mood. Is that WAI?

    The posts I tend to skip over: Tolstoy's War And Peace WALL OF TEXT CRITS YOU IN ALL CAPS AND NO PUNCTUATION FOR GAZILLION DAMAGE AND THEN KEEPS ON GOING AND GOING AND GOING AND GOING AND REGURGITATING AND THROWING UP AND OMG EMOTIONAL ROLLERCOASTER ENGINE OF TERROR THAT JUST WON'T STOP TYPING REPEATING everything it already said three times.
    Pure awesome... I'm glad to know the devs are adults.

    Also, the sentiment here in the office right now is exhausted and excited. The expansion is live. Finally. We've put a lot of work into it. Working on the patch now. No amount of forum trolling will affect the atmosphere here in any way.
    I finally got a chance to play the new content last night... The new areas are AMAZING. Enter the Rift has an incredible atmosphere. I love King's Forest. I had fun with zero bugs for 4-5 hours. I'm not saying there aren't problems with this release.

    But your hard work gave me hours of fun last night, and will give me hundreds of hours of fun going forward.

    Thank you.
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    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
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    No single character has all the skills and resources needed to guarantee success in all endeavors; favorable results can usually only be achieved through group effort. No single player character wins, in the sense that he or she defeats all other player characters; the goal of the forces of good can only be attained through cooperation, so that victory is a group achievement rather than an individual one.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    ...and you're telling me you LIKE the spikes, right?
    Of course we like the spikes. Don't tell me the raids I'm in are the only ones to race to 100+ deaths on an alt first.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silex_Molior View Post
    Offering 900 Turbine Points worth of airship amenities does not cover the costs of 2 consecutive patches which wiped out our airships.

    Platinum is not real money, its fake. There should be no issue with sending each Guild Leader (and you have a database for determining this) an amount of platinum based on their current ship size. 100k, 200k, 300k, platinum, via in-game mail. You have the tech for this.
    seconded. my husband and i usually pay for all guild amenities, as we're a very small guild. i got em all the last 2 times (before the update, and after). i'm broke now... with an empty ship again. and very difficult to regain that lost plat with borked quest rewards giving me level 1 loot.

    either refund the plat spent for buffs that got immediately wiped... or make the buffs free for a week. either would be acceptable options to me.

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  18. #38

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    The OP is correct. There are some things I like and do not like. There are some things I really like (the new gear, the new quests, epic destinies) and some things I really dont like (Bard spell list is still garbage, BUGS, Compendium fail ).

    Turbine has given us a HUGE amount of new content, and did forgotten realms so well, i dont even WANT to go back to Eberron. Like Ive said for years they should have STARTED with FR and made Eberron the expansion.

    Anyhow, Turbine needs to crack the whip on bugs. If they actually do it in a reasonable amount of time (LOMBARDI TIME!) then it will be a huge WIN for Turbine.

    If they dont get this junk irons out... expect the forums to be full of WHAAAAAA for months to come.
    Last edited by LeslieWest_GuitarGod; 06-28-2012 at 10:36 AM.


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  19. #39
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    The complaining started in the original beta. Many of those people are still here complaining today, and they have consistently complained through each and every update. When their next action after complaining in such a quantity based fashion is to tab back in and play more DDO, they become less and less convincing.

    Ive seen the same excuses now for years regarding justifying overexagerated quantity based complaining, and the 6 years of evidence that we have indicates it doesnt work that way. They arent going to start fixing things faster due to moar nerd rage. Weve been there, done that, bought the t-shirt, and still wear said shirt while lounging around the house - and it still hasnt happened.

    As far as laughing all the way to the bank, yeap, they are. Its because the people who complain in an epic fashion are STILL HERE helping them make that bank. This indicates that its not nearly as bad as the overexagerators say it is after each update. The Do0oOm® they proclaimed time and again has never happened. The game that they said would cause mass exodus from DDO never caused said mass exodus. Those who claimed they would never give another red cent to Turbine are buying all the packs as well as the destinies.

    Actions speak louder than words. When the complainers actions completely contradict their words, the people who look more absurd here are not the ones who are thanking Turbine for an update they are having fun playing through. Its those who complain this is the worst game evAr and post nonsense about how employees should be fired, then afterward tab back in to play more DDO.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  20. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by katz View Post
    ... or make the buffs free for a week.
    I fully agree with this part.


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