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  1. #1
    Community Member scoobmx's Avatar
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    Default Abbot raid manual

    This is a text written for players already somewhat familiar with the raid, players who have run it a few times, players who have read the various other forum guides, and players who want to run the raid long-term, lead it, or master it. The link below should automatically take you to the newest version of the text. The current relevant game version is U13.3. The current text version is incomplete. There are no plans at this time to complete it. Note: any mention of what is 'common' or 'usual' is specific to the Argonnessen server.

    Read at Google Drive
    Download Offline Copy

    Huge thanks to the people from Imperial Assassins and Breaking Bad who helped me run various experiments.

    Notes for U14:

    1. There is a new problem in Asteroids where sometimes many more asteroids can spawn simultaneously than normal. This may be a server-side latency problem.
    2. There is a new problem in Asteroids where you cannot see asteroids spawn anymore. The explosion and subsequent halo at a spawn location is gone, even at maximum draw distance.
    3. The Quench spell can dispel the Inferno attack.
    Last edited by scoobmx; 11-29-2012 at 03:13 PM.
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  2. #2
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    Google keeps redirecting me to their new cloud storage site. This is why I prefer Mediafire for distribution, what with Google's constant unnecessary features that just become a pain.

  3. #3
    Community Member scoobmx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Merlin-ator View Post
    Google keeps redirecting me to their new cloud storage site. This is why I prefer Mediafire for distribution, what with Google's constant unnecessary features that just become a pain.
    If you are signed into Google and have not used Google Docs recently, then it will show that to you to let you know that Google Docs has become Google Drive. Once you sign in through that page, it won't show it to you again.
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  4. #4
    Community Member AtomicMew's Avatar
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    I'm sure each server has their own style, but your section for goggles seems a bit off in my experience. Goggles is currently the easiest puzzle to do since the changes and a good team can usually finish before roids or even ice. Voice chat is not required by a long shot. You should be able to just type out the pattern once and your partner should be able to just follow it.

    The notation you use also seems overly complex - I still don't understand it really even after reading the paragraph several times. A typical route on khyber would probably look something like this: 1-3-2-2-1,forward-2 blue. 1-2,wing end. A dash "-" is a pause and a comma "," is no pause (just a break in notation) or a short pause depending on context. After explaining that, everything about the puzzle is immediately clear, so I have no idea why other servers think it's necessary to get fancy with arrows and open brackets and close brackets and extraneous letters.

    The part I was most interested in is the part that wasn't done. There are still parts of hte end fight that I'm not quite certain on.

    Lastly, you should also mention a section on dual boxing goggles. I can write up a short paragraph for that if you like.

  5. #5
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    Looking forward to the rest of the guide. Some notes:

    Ice:
    * You might want to clarify what you mean by "as a clicky", i.e. that you must put the ice wand on your hotbar and activate it from the hotbar. Believe it or not, quite a few people don't know this.
    * For swimming with silver flame pots, not only do you need good healing amp, but you also need to have a high enough amount of HP to absorb 2 hits from the water. Therein lies the rub: the water can do as few as 100 HP of damage and as high as 450 HP of damage. Also, the water will damage you every 2 seconds while drinking a pot has a cooldown of 3 seconds, meaning that half the time, you will take 2 hits from water in between drinking a pot. So higher HP is better, with lower HP not necessarily meaning that you'll definitely fail, but that your chances of failure increases (if you happen to get two hits that do a lot of damage). In theory you need something like 900 HP to guarantee that you won't fail, but in practice you have a pretty good success rate with 700-800 HP, with lower success rates the less HP you have.

    Asteroids:
    * Some people prefer to do asteroids in first-person view, while others prefer to be zoomed all the way out. Doing asteroids in first-person view reduces the chances of auto-aim affecting things, while doing asteroids zoomed all the way out gives you better peripheral vision. If you're facing outwards, then you'll likely be using first person view, because when zoomed out a person behind you can trigger auto-aim as well.
    * If facing inward, special care must be taken when firing at asteroids behind the person on the opposite side. I suspect (though no formal evidence) that sometimes, your boulder hits the other person according to the server but goes through and hits the asteroid according to the client, resulting in a desync issue resulting in an invisible asteroids. So you shouldn't fire any that are too close to the person on the opposite side, even with auto-aim off. Instead, I will generally move to the left or right a bit, or jump. Also, when facing inward, you should likely zoom all the way out to see any asteroids behind the person on the other side with your peripheral vision more easily.
    * The people in asteroids need to stand far enough away that you don't block each other (as much), but close enough in that you're not knocked off by an asteroid that does impact. To do so, there is a square in the center of the platform. Standing just outside of the corners is usually a good position to be.

    Tiles:
    * Latency can be taken care of (more or less) by just testing it out prior to the puzzle. For example, you can just have the guide say "jump" and then have the person doing the tiles jump when he hears it. That gives an indication of how much lead time to give, and takes into account the person's reaction time etc.
    * I prefer facing forward (toward the end) because it leads to faster solutions. Also, it allows for jumping across blank tiles; a wing/abundant step is usually given to take 3 tiles, so you can jump over 2 blank tiles that way.
    * A tumble is usually taken as a half-tile, so to switch rows you can generally take 2 tumbles. This depends on your tumble score though.

    For the main fight, the Abbot does a special (curse of the inferno, disjunction, encase, or breeze/phasing wraiths) every 20-21 seconds. The biggest mistake I see for this is that oftentimes, whoever is in charge of making the ice islands will have the wand equipped all the time, only to say that it's disjunctioned when the Abbot does inferno. Thus, whoever does the ice islands should not have it equipped until the Abbot does inferno. There are a few other things when I start discussing the Abbot in detail (but mine is more technically oriented in terms of discussing the game mechanics of the raid) but that's the biggest issue that I see in the main fight.

  6. #6
    Community Member scoobmx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicMew View Post
    I'm sure each server has their own style, but your section for goggles seems a bit off in my experience. Goggles is currently the easiest puzzle to do since the changes and a good team can usually finish before roids or even ice. Voice chat is not required by a long shot. You should be able to just type out the pattern once and your partner should be able to just follow it.

    The notation you use also seems overly complex - I still don't understand it really even after reading the paragraph several times. A typical route on khyber would probably look something like this: 1-3-2-2-1,forward-2 blue. 1-2,wing end. A dash "-" is a pause and a comma "," is no pause (just a break in notation) or a short pause depending on context. After explaining that, everything about the puzzle is immediately clear, so I have no idea why other servers think it's necessary to get fancy with arrows and open brackets and close brackets and extraneous letters.

    The part I was most interested in is the part that wasn't done. There are still parts of hte end fight that I'm not quite certain on.

    Lastly, you should also mention a section on dual boxing goggles. I can write up a short paragraph for that if you like.
    It's mentioned in the text that voice isn't necessary (hinted at several times).

    The notation I gave is just a more compact version of yours. All the dashes are replaced with spaces, commas replaced with dashes, the word forward/backward replaced with R#, and blue replaced with brackets. In other words it has the same information but uses less characters, so in a sense isn't your's more 'extraneous'?

    Dual-boxing tiles is extremely rare - I've seen 2 people sitting in the same room do it once on Argo, but never 1 person using 2 accounts. I chose to not mention it.
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  7. #7
    Community Member scoobmx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vanshilar View Post
    Looking forward to the rest of the guide. Some notes:

    Ice:
    * You might want to clarify what you mean by "as a clicky", i.e. that you must put the ice wand on your hotbar and activate it from the hotbar. Believe it or not, quite a few people don't know this.
    * For swimming with silver flame pots, not only do you need good healing amp, but you also need to have a high enough amount of HP to absorb 2 hits from the water. Therein lies the rub: the water can do as few as 100 HP of damage and as high as 450 HP of damage. Also, the water will damage you every 2 seconds while drinking a pot has a cooldown of 3 seconds, meaning that half the time, you will take 2 hits from water in between drinking a pot. So higher HP is better, with lower HP not necessarily meaning that you'll definitely fail, but that your chances of failure increases (if you happen to get two hits that do a lot of damage). In theory you need something like 900 HP to guarantee that you won't fail, but in practice you have a pretty good success rate with 700-800 HP, with lower success rates the less HP you have.

    Asteroids:
    * Some people prefer to do asteroids in first-person view, while others prefer to be zoomed all the way out. Doing asteroids in first-person view reduces the chances of auto-aim affecting things, while doing asteroids zoomed all the way out gives you better peripheral vision. If you're facing outwards, then you'll likely be using first person view, because when zoomed out a person behind you can trigger auto-aim as well.
    * If facing inward, special care must be taken when firing at asteroids behind the person on the opposite side. I suspect (though no formal evidence) that sometimes, your boulder hits the other person according to the server but goes through and hits the asteroid according to the client, resulting in a desync issue resulting in an invisible asteroids. So you shouldn't fire any that are too close to the person on the opposite side, even with auto-aim off. Instead, I will generally move to the left or right a bit, or jump. Also, when facing inward, you should likely zoom all the way out to see any asteroids behind the person on the other side with your peripheral vision more easily.
    * The people in asteroids need to stand far enough away that you don't block each other (as much), but close enough in that you're not knocked off by an asteroid that does impact. To do so, there is a square in the center of the platform. Standing just outside of the corners is usually a good position to be.

    Tiles:
    * Latency can be taken care of (more or less) by just testing it out prior to the puzzle. For example, you can just have the guide say "jump" and then have the person doing the tiles jump when he hears it. That gives an indication of how much lead time to give, and takes into account the person's reaction time etc.
    * I prefer facing forward (toward the end) because it leads to faster solutions. Also, it allows for jumping across blank tiles; a wing/abundant step is usually given to take 3 tiles, so you can jump over 2 blank tiles that way.
    * A tumble is usually taken as a half-tile, so to switch rows you can generally take 2 tumbles. This depends on your tumble score though.

    For the main fight, the Abbot does a special (curse of the inferno, disjunction, encase, or breeze/phasing wraiths) every 20-21 seconds. The biggest mistake I see for this is that oftentimes, whoever is in charge of making the ice islands will have the wand equipped all the time, only to say that it's disjunctioned when the Abbot does inferno. Thus, whoever does the ice islands should not have it equipped until the Abbot does inferno. There are a few other things when I start discussing the Abbot in detail (but mine is more technically oriented in terms of discussing the game mechanics of the raid) but that's the biggest issue that I see in the main fight.
    Thanks, I can add some of these in for the next draft.

    We performed some tests for asteroids and although the results aren't conclusive beyond doubt, I believe we found that the desync mechanism described in the text accounts for the majority of problems. When I tried soloing it, the problems were just as plentiful as duoing or 4-manning (I almost always jump-throw as described in the jump-casting part).

    In my experience an abundant step travels only 2 tiles - the rest is probably the forward motion before and after the abundant step.

    The predominant strategy for dealing with inferno on Argo is to drink curse pots / break enchantment and heal through. I've seen wands used one time in the past year and a half, and that was the time I decided to try it to see how well it works.
    Last edited by scoobmx; 07-03-2012 at 06:34 PM.
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  8. #8
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    Thanks scoobmx - this is awesome! I've PMed you some comments/questions. I am reading this in detail - particularly the section on the tiles solution as this is my greatest weakness in this raid.

    While there are many excellent guides around, this does take it to the extra step that I have needed for the extra details. When you have time to finish the write up continuing at this level of detail it would be much appreciated.
    ~Thelanis ~ Khyber ~

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by scoobmx View Post
    Dual-boxing tiles is extremely rare - I've seen 2 people sitting in the same room do it once on Argo...
    Even when TestsTheMeek and I do that, there's still a half second (or more) of lag - though I suspect it's partially due to Tests' laptop starting to show its age
    General mischief maker and trap spring... I mean... disarmer. No really! I swear I had no idea that trap was there!

  10. #10
    Community Member AtomicMew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scoobmx View Post
    It's mentioned in the text that voice isn't necessary (hinted at several times).

    The notation I gave is just a more compact version of yours. All the dashes are replaced with spaces, commas replaced with dashes, the word forward/backward replaced with R#, and blue replaced with brackets. In other words it has the same information but uses less characters, so in a sense isn't your's more 'extraneous'?
    No, extraneous doesn't mean using less characters. It means just simple, rather than complex. And if you wanted to get into a character count battle, khyber often just uses "B" instead of "blue" and "^" and "v" for lane changes, which is still less characters than your notation anyway.

    The point was, you can pretty much describe the khyber notation in one or two sentences. With the system you use, you have to decribe 5-6 different things before even starting. You still haven't explained what the pointy brackets mean (e.g., ">").

    Also, "j" is extraneous because you should always be jumping after a pause anyway.

    Dual-boxing tiles is extremely rare - I've seen 2 people sitting in the same room do it once on Argo, but never 1 person using 2 accounts. I chose to not mention it.
    I can think of 5 people off the top of my head, 6 including myself who can dual box goggles on khyber. Not including at least a small section on dual boxing seems extremely silly if you want a comprehensive abbot guide, since it is easily the safest and fastest method for completing goggles. I can write a small snippet for you if you like.

  11. #11
    Community Member scoobmx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicMew View Post
    No, extraneous doesn't mean using less characters. It means just simple, rather than complex. And if you wanted to get into a character count battle, khyber often just uses "B" instead of "blue" and "^" and "v" for lane changes, which is still less characters than your notation anyway.

    The point was, you can pretty much describe the khyber notation in one or two sentences. With the system you use, you have to decribe 5-6 different things before even starting. You still haven't explained what the pointy brackets mean (e.g., ">").

    Also, "j" is extraneous because you should always be jumping after a pause anyway.
    It's just one example of a notation given in the text. The more general ideas for designing a notation are all in there as well. Since I'm an Argo player and all of my collaborators are from Argo, the example given is of a type used on Argo.

    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicMew View Post
    I can think of 5 people off the top of my head, 6 including myself who can dual box goggles on khyber. Not including at least a small section on dual boxing seems extremely silly if you want a comprehensive abbot guide, since it is easily the safest and fastest method for completing goggles. I can write a small snippet for you if you like.
    The link is updated with some of the changes you and Vanshilar have mentioned. A brief mention about dual-boxing is in there (in 5-10).
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  12. #12
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    Thanks for this, it was much needed.

  13. #13
    Community Member scoobmx's Avatar
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    Notes for U14:

    1. With the changes to healing amplification enhancements it is much more difficult to solo Ice by swimming.

    2. There is a new problem in Asteroids where sometimes many more asteroids can spawn simultaneously than normal. This may be a server-side lag problem.

    3. There is a new problem in Asteroids where you cannot see asteroids spawn anymore. The explosion and subsequent halo at a spawn location is gone, even at maximum draw distance.

    4. The loading screen for the raid shows Gianthold Tor.
    Last edited by scoobmx; 07-03-2012 at 06:49 PM.
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  14. #14
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    Updated with information on the special attacks.
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  15. #15
    Community Member scoobmx's Avatar
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    Extra note for U14:

    Druid's Quench spell can dispel the Inferno attack.
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  16. #16
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    added link to download a copy, for those who do not use google drive.
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    That is a nice write up and probably the most detailed since
    old Sphinx guide.

    Pictures and videos would be good to add but you did
    say this was aimed at experienced people.


    A few comments and questions:

    Pikers in astroids need to /sleep to not block throwers.


    I don’t like sending in people with ice wands to
    scout the initial attack, just my preference.
    (Sarlona mainly just uses the ice platform method for Inferno)


    Leave FeatherFall items off to mitigate telekinesis attacks.
    (travel less distance)

    Also try to melee the Abbot facing in such a way as to
    have the maximum amount of platform behind you as
    possible in case of a telekinesis attack.



    When you say quench dispels the attack do you mean
    the attack is completely stopped or just a portion is
    mitigated in some way?

  18. #18
    Community Member scoobmx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tobril View Post
    When you say quench dispels the attack do you mean
    the attack is completely stopped or just a portion is
    mitigated in some way?
    In U14 if someone casts quench during Inferno, it effectively prevented further damage (though you must still break the curse if it's on you). In this way Inferno could be reduced to only 1 tick of damage in a quench+breakEnchant combo. Whether or not it still works this way today in U16 is not clear to me - I do not have a druid.
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