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  1. #1
    The Hatchery MRMechMan's Avatar
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    Default How to heal a tank

    Healers on Cannith are generally pretty good I've found. I can usually assume that they know the basics of their class, even if they don't know the specific quest. I am happy to help people learn, too-whether it is specific quests or something more general regarding curse removal/healscrolls/enhancements/feats/etcetc. Well, found the worst healer I've ever seen today in TOD.

    Really all you need to keep most tanks up are:

    1. Heal spell
    2. Heal scrolls
    3. Aura if clr/capstone if fvs

    He used exactly none of those:

    -Didn't even carry mass heal spell (implosion, energy drain and...drum roll...summon monster IX.
    -when asked to heal the horoth tank spammed mass cures till was out of spell points (took under a minute, probably plays a mean sorc). Did not use the heal spell on the tank even once.
    -did not carry heal scrolls. Was flabbergasted when I asked him if he had heal scrolls.
    -despite spamming spells, could not keep the tank up.

    Sad part was, afterwards he offered to link "20 war trophies". How this guy made it through that made TODs healing like that I have no idea.

  2. #2
    Community Member loki_3369's Avatar
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    Perhaps (s)he was busy spamming capstones and the heal spell on his/her Hezrou. The Hezrou is their tank!

    Yay Stone's of Experience ftw.
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  3. #3
    Community Member wax_on_wax_off's Avatar
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    I healed Xhina of Khyber in elite VoD on my 12 bard/8 artificer build, it was really exciting, turns out I'm such a good healer that her HP bar barely moved. It was all me I tell you.

    That was such a fun vod, 23 minutes, 3 healers, 3 bards, 3-4 monks, 1 fighter, 1 rogue. Can you imagine that we got through without a barbarian (or wiz/sorc)?

    Why am I posting this here? I have no clue. Oh, I know, generally you don't need a divine icon to heal a tank, artificer/rogue/bard/wizard/sorcerer all have the potential to scroll heal a well built tank, just a pitty that there aren't more of them to go around ...
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  4. #4
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    i don't want to be cruel Mech, but the last things people needs on Cannith are "how to heal other people" advices from the Tribe...

  5. #5
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    Be that as it may but,

    In this instance he is correct, and specifically when you consider the raid that he is talking about, some toons can quite reliably heal themselves, while tanking but sometimes for those times when they aren't built for that purpose or be it class restrictions on what they can actually do.. and they require a healer to help them maintain themselves...

    Though I missed the raid personally, sorry bout that mech, by the time i had changed toons you had filled, STANDARD PRACTICE for healers should be for them to carry mass heal to start with as soon as you can, have some heal scrolls available as well.. even at a bare minimum, should have the heal spell and CCW..

    EVEN my arty carries heal scrolls, just in case!!!!!!

    To not have these bare minimums is to fail as a healer... flame me if you want to, but it's till the truth, especially once you have gotten to the raid TOD..

    hate me if you like but I have a capped fvs, and I've TR'ed my pure cleric
    Mittias Drow Male Wizard 20th---- Cannith
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  6. #6
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    Trophies are BTA so even if he has 20 that doesn't mean he has 20 completions on his healer.

    Situations like this really make me wonder though...

    I have talked to a few healers on Cannith who refuse to use heal scrolls. I understand their point of view (although i do not subscribe to that kind of thinking) but IMO if you're going to do ToD, and VoD it is expected of you that your heals will last the duration. If the tank is less than stellar this means scrolls.
    Cannith - Noehealz, Protectorjon, Noebuffs, Mortion

  7. #7
    Community Member Dolphious's Avatar
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    Heal scrolls are one of those things that people usually have to be told about, most don't discover how useful they are independently. Just one of those learning curve things, next time he'll know to bring scrolls.

    So a 20 min raid might fail (or more realistically the other divine(s) have to work a bit harder to cover), no biggie.
    Gildus, Yhvain, Sabathiel, Einion

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  8. #8
    Community Member Ragnar7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yalina View Post
    i don't want to be cruel Mech, but the last things people needs on Cannith are "how to heal other people" advices from the Tribe...
    Hahahaha. Zerg are great for leveling, but endgame I don't bother unless I'm on a totally self-sufficient character. There have enough times in EDA, where Gwy has taken agro of bosses and then died 45 secs later after drinking all of his silver flames. I'm pretty sure one time there were 2fvs and 1 cleric also
    Last edited by Ragnar7; 06-24-2012 at 01:53 PM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dolphious View Post
    Heal scrolls are one of those things that people usually have to be told about, most don't discover how useful they are independently. Just one of those learning curve things, next time he'll know to bring scrolls.

    So a 20 min raid might fail (or more realistically the other divine(s) have to work a bit harder to cover), no biggie.
    There are many healers who I have personally given a stack of heal scrolls with an explanation about why they are useful and where they can get them. Among those I know of 4 who used them up and didn't replinish (and won't replenish) and they argue with me on the overall benefit.
    Cannith - Noehealz, Protectorjon, Noebuffs, Mortion

  10. #10
    Community Member nbaker18's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ragnar7 View Post
    Hahahaha. Zerg are great for leveling, but endgame I don't bother unless I'm on a totally self-sufficient character. There have enough times in EDA, where Gwy has taken agro of bosses and then died 45 secs later after drinking all of his silver flames. I'm pretty sure one time there were 2fvs and 1 cleric also
    I hate how somehow every forum posted by any member of zerg ends up having negative statements about zerg as a whole, I know I have personally hosted many ToD raids and had Mechgruber heal main tank a multitude of times and every last time he heals the tank, the tank never dies and we succeed in the end. yes sometimes they will tank on fvs (nothing wrong with that) but every last one of them is capable of healing when need be (granted i cannot say much seeing as the closest thing to a healer i have played in end game raids is my arti which again i am extremely happy to heal a tank on my arti i can keep scrolls in my hand keeping tanks alive and blast my runearm to keep doing dmg as well)

    This was just a thread on how to properly heal a tank, WHO CARES WHO POSTED IT?
    ~CANNITH~
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  11. #11
    The Hatchery MRMechMan's Avatar
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    Guess I've cooled down since the incident. Was a bit peeved.

    Sitting here in a south korean airport mulling things over and enjoying free wifi

    Quote Originally Posted by nbaker18 View Post
    yes sometimes they will tank on fvs (nothing wrong with that) ?
    Thats actually what ended up happening (and sully, and a bunch of their friends). For maybe 5-10min as tried raising people and getting the raid stabalized. Sully almost died from guards. Probably should have tanked horoth from the start to be honest.

    Shoulda known the healer wouldnt be able to keep the tank up as he had ~400 hp and died in part1. And had to do most of the healing in part2 despite humping shadows

    I do realize that if you see a fvs from zerg you are less likely to get heals from them. We do have that reputation and I can see why. However, I will heal anyone and everyone in my party that...

    1.takes care of their curses (it isn't hard).
    2.doesn't act like complete moron on your melee-if you run in and out of masses I will *not* spot heal you. If you take melee damage from boss cleaves because you are standing on top of the tank when you are not the tank I will probably let you die.
    3. is useful. Even if it is monster DPS and nothing else, if you bring a solidly built/geared melee that brings the pain, I'll heal your pants off. If you link your litIIs in an arti-less elite shroud and ask if they break DR...I'll still heal you but not gonna go outta my way to, either.

    Those are about the only rules. I don't have a bio full of statements like "can't heal through walls" or "zerg at your own risk" because if I can't target you then I don't sweat being able to heal you and if you are zerging I am right there with you anyway. If you are in range and useful to the group and low on HP, hell yea I am healing you.

    Honestly, I didn't carry heal scrolls at first. Now I can't live without them-cheap cheap SP free healing is invaluable. I was (fairly) civil talking to this dude but he just didn't want to learn. Even invited him to a 1 on 1 chat afterwards to try and talk about what happened but just didn't even understand the concept of sp conservation or keeping a tank up. Really frustrating. I'd be OK with the situation if the dude actually learned something from the experience but it sure didn't seem like it.

  12. #12
    Community Member Dolphious's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRMechMan View Post

    Honestly, I didn't carry heal scrolls at first. Now I can't live without them-cheap cheap SP free healing is invaluable. I was (fairly) civil talking to this dude but he just didn't want to learn. Even invited him to a 1 on 1 chat afterwards to try and talk about what happened but just didn't even understand the concept of sp conservation or keeping a tank up. Really frustrating. I'd be OK with the situation if the dude actually learned something from the experience but it sure didn't seem like it.
    Ah, yeah, that is obnoxious and unacceptable. Not knowing is IMO fine and part of the game, so is being a moron from time to time. Refusing to adapt or listen means you're probably not going to be someone that is fun to group with for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is it's just no fun to fail the same way twice.
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  13. #13
    Community Member joaofalcao's Avatar
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    The 20 trophies got me curious too. I went to check it and found as said here its BTA.

    Either that, or, well, DDO is hitting the WoW market and I would not be surprised if people are selling their accounts.

    Regarding the zerg thing, well, I d take Yalina's joke on good humor, because as mech pointed out, theres a reason they got the rep they got.

    Ask me in game a story or two. I got a pet peeve of my own.

    New players have a total different approach to the game. Some of them are hostilized in PUGs because theyre new, and these often become very sensible of criticism and advice.

    Some are just stubborn by nature too.

    Some of them are just new. I remember refusing this human sorc20 to kite in eVoN6 because he couldnt self heal (met him before). Instead of getting mad at the refusal, he bought a lesser heart of wood and got the UMD to scroll heal himself. He did not join us, but was really pleased that I presented the possibility of self healling to him.

    All in all, my money is on communication. Even the more stubborn fellows can be talked out. Some will take more effort than others, ofc.

  14. #14
    Community Member Ragnar7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nbaker18 View Post
    I hate how somehow every forum posted by any member of zerg ends up having negative statements about zerg as a whole, I know I have personally hosted many ToD raids and had Mechgruber heal main tank a multitude of times and every last time he heals the tank, the tank never dies and we succeed in the end. yes sometimes they will tank on fvs (nothing wrong with that) but every last one of them is capable of healing when need be (granted i cannot say much seeing as the closest thing to a healer i have played in end game raids is my arti which again i am extremely happy to heal a tank on my arti i can keep scrolls in my hand keeping tanks alive and blast my runearm to keep doing dmg as well)

    This was just a thread on how to properly heal a tank, WHO CARES WHO POSTED IT?
    It wasn't meant to be negative. In my experience a raid comprised of primarily Zerg favored souls, means you will not get heals, they will all just DoT and blade barrier everything. That's fine people can play the game in whatever manner is fun for them. It just means I won't be joining on a melee.

    Yes, Mech offered good advice and I don't know him very well but he has always healed in pug groups I have seen him in.

    Also, thanks for the attempt at giving me negative rep., but it didn't work.
    Last edited by Ragnar7; 06-24-2012 at 10:23 PM.

  15. #15
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    HEAL SCROLLS ARE FOR THE WEAK!


    If I can't keep you up with my stack of wand of cure light wounds, there is something wrong with your toon.


    That reminds me of another story, Two years ago, I was pugging in Delera, and this Pug in the group laughed at me because I was holding a wand. He told me, "Haha, why are you holding that wand, what are you going to do with that?", I answered, "It is not the length of the wand baby, it is the magic of the stick".

  16. #16
    Community Member nbaker18's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ragnar7 View Post
    It wasn't meant to be negative. In my experience a raid comprised of primarily Zerg favored souls, means you will not get heals, they will all just DoT and blade barrier everything. That's fine people can play the game in whatever manner is fun for them. It just means I won't be joining on a melee.

    Yes, Mech offered good advice and I don't know him very well but he has always healed in pug groups I have seen him in.

    Also, thanks for the attempt at giving me negative rep., but it didn't work.
    If your talking about me trying to give you neg rep, and I didn't even try I actually have nothing against you at all whether it be forums or in game, I just see this and sigkurs post about zerg and what it really is makes a lot of negative comments about the tribe, Just don't like seeing people trash talked in general
    ~CANNITH~
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  17. #17
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    How I heal a tank:

    1. stop by house K for a stack of heal scrolls. 2 stacks if it's a slightly tougher raid
    2. go to raid and have fun, sing my little songs and swing my weapons at things till it's time for the tank to do his thing
    3. target said tank
    4. throw heal scrolls (supplemented by cure crit + ardor pot if high burst damage is outpacing the scrolls) as necessary and be thankful i had foresight to have tierIII scroll mastery on my bard.
    5. ???
    6. profit!


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  18. #18
    Community Member xveganrox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRMechMan View Post
    -Didn't even carry mass heal spell (implosion, energy drain and...drum roll...summon monster IX.
    Are you sure the raid wasn't BYOH? (bring your own Hezrou)

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arakasia View Post
    Be that as it may but,

    In this instance he is correct, and specifically when you consider the raid that he is talking about, some toons can quite reliably heal themselves, while tanking but sometimes for those times when they aren't built for that purpose or be it class restrictions on what they can actually do.. and they require a healer to help them maintain themselves...

    Though I missed the raid personally, sorry bout that mech, by the time i had changed toons you had filled, STANDARD PRACTICE for healers should be for them to carry mass heal to start with as soon as you can, have some heal scrolls available as well.. even at a bare minimum, should have the heal spell and CCW..

    EVEN my arty carries heal scrolls, just in case!!!!!!

    To not have these bare minimums is to fail as a healer... flame me if you want to, but it's till the truth, especially once you have gotten to the raid TOD..

    hate me if you like but I have a capped fvs, and I've TR'ed my pure cleric

    I carry 2 stacks on all my characters that can cast em.. them bastards get expensive tho, lotta first lifers/timers prolly havent stocked up on pots and plat, hell, think it took me several years to break a mil plat.
    Necalli (spellsinger), Boofy (warchanter), Bowlcrusher (retired enchanter), Krunchface (barb), Tlilectic (Arti) - ITS HUGE SON (R.I.P.) - Cannith Server,

  20. #20
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    Eh, Noha, I was just mentioning that there is something ironical when someone from a guild known "no heals for ya" blames a divine for bad heals... at least that guy tried to heal, just was too bad as a healer, maybe he was a dot tank or battle cleric!! All in all, people plays this game as they would like to do, we all know that there are fvs's around without mass heal spells, there are people who behold the mote in the brother's eye... etc., so when you meet with a bad healer, just remember, there are some closer to you as well. I consider Mech is a good healer by the way, but being infamous for a certain thing doesnt happen accidentally (in other words: what goes around, comes around).
    Last edited by Yalina; 06-25-2012 at 08:42 AM.

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