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  1. #1
    Community Member Keybreaker's Avatar
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    Default FYI: Guild Specific LFMs aka Alphabet Soup on Orien

    Back when I was the Raid Coordinator in Epic Fail, one of, if not the largest guild on Orien at the time (well before airships were introduces), I would put up LFMs like "EF Shroud" or "EF VoD". It just made it much easier to get the group together for raids, especially for raids like DQ where you have to split into two teams for the preraid. At the time EF was one of the few guilds that raided on Orien, but by no means was it a "raiding guild" as the guild was large and heterogeneous and raiding was certainly not the top priority for most of the members.

    However, several raiding guilds that do prioritize raiding have emerged over the years. Interestingly, most of the leaders and original members of these raiding guilds were once members of EF. OR, Myths, HB, PK, and others I'm surely forgetting.

    In any case, if you see an LFM that simply has a guild acronym, especially if there is no quest/raid specified, it's likely a closed guild/channel quest or raid.

    I thought this was commonly understood, but for whatever reason, I'm getting 20-30 tells a night asking "What is OR?" "What are you running?"

    This will probably fall on deaf ears and will likely not even reach the population that questions. I don't know why there's this sudden explosion of inquiring minds, but I have two hypotheses:
    (1) There hasn't been as many of these guild acronym LFMs recently as many raiding guilds have slowed or gone on a raiding hiatus in order to prepare for the XPAC (TR'ing seemed like a better use of time than grinding gear that would be obsolete).
    (2) Mass stoning? Sudden burst of 16-20s that are new to raiding and epics?

    Also, a bit of a tangent but:
    (1) If you are invited to a group to "pike a completion" but told you won't be able to loot chests b/c of a lockout (which most raids have)... This is a courtesy, a favor to you. You'll collect the end reward and be one completion close to a 20nth list. If you respond rudely, expect to be /squelch'd.
    (2) If you really want to insinuate yourself into a closed LFM, don't pepper the leader and non-anonymous members of the guild you find on the /who list with 20+ tells about how much you need the completion/token/rewards. That's just bad salesmanship. If you want in, you should be able to convince the gatekeeper (and no one else) of what you can contribute - not what you need.
    (3) If you see a closed, guild LFM in which everyone in the group is already in the quest, that's a solid indication that they have already started the quest. The fact that the LFM is still up is not an invitation for you. It's there so any guildie/channelmate who sees it can pop in for a free (chestless) completion, or it's still up for convenience so the group can quickly jump from raid to raid as a few members will invariably have to relog to alts.
    Last edited by Keybreaker; 06-22-2012 at 01:13 AM.
    Keybreaker, Leader of Over Raided (Orien)

  2. #2
    Community Member ~Quilny's Avatar
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    Default yeah tells are bad Mkay

    when i was a noob i used to click on your posts labeled OR well guess I am still noob but yeah i can def understand new players not knowing it is closed raid. maybe if you did ( OR reserved ) most people know what reserved means.

    My guild isn't raiding as much as I want them to but thats what you get for being in a casual guild . When we do get raids going as guild only I just use guild chat.
    massivheals / massivsponge - Orien server
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  3. #3
    Community Member dirtphillips's Avatar
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    Default Piking Completions

    Where is the sign up sheet for that? I'd do that over the non-existent raiding at my time of the evening during the week.
    Crakspiders - Craakspdr - Crakdspidr - Thatdoood - Otherdoood - Otherrguy

  4. #4
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    Angry

    Quote Originally Posted by Quilny View Post
    when i was a noob i used to click on your posts labeled OR well guess I am still noob but yeah i can def understand new players not knowing it is closed raid. maybe if you did ( OR reserved ) most people know what reserved means.

    My guild isn't raiding as much as I want them to but thats what you get for being in a casual guild . When we do get raids going as guild only I just use guild chat.
    That's also what you get for recruiting members who time and time again made it obviously clear THEY WERE CASUAL players who played to have fun.

  5. #5
    Community Member Cauthey's Avatar
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    Default

    "OR" or "HIFO" means very little, if not nothing to many of the Orien masses.

    If you wish to curtail the application behavior, I would recommend being a little more verbose in your description (as Quilny stated, though I recommend even more information).

    "Reserved - Over Raided"

    "Epic Fail - Reserved - open to PUGs in 10 minutes"

    ...etc.

    More communication is NEVER a bad thing.
    PLEASE FIX LAG. PLEASE FIX BUGS.

  6. #6
    The Hatchery danotmano1998's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Keybreaker View Post
    <SNIP>
    Interesting.. But wouldn't it be easier to just say:

    EF Guild only run "Quest Here"

    I'm guessing if you put more than two letters that mean little to people not in the know, you would get less questioning and confusion.
    <-Curelite Bottling Company->

    Quote Originally Posted by Chilldude
    Dude, did you see they way that guy just pressed button 1? It was amazing! A display of skill unseen since the 1984 World Games where in the men's room, between events, a man washed his hands with such unbridled majesty that people were claiming the faucet he used was OP.

  7. #7
    Community Member redspecter23's Avatar
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    Default

    Anytime I've ever seen a guild tag in an LFM it typically means the raid is hosted by them and all are welcome to apply. If it were a reserved raid, it states such quite clearly. If you're putting up an LFM with an acronym that the masses on the server don't know, why would you expect them to know not to apply? I personally don't apply to LFM's if I don't know what their description means, but 98% of the population will not have that sort of self control. Telling them explicitly that the LFM is "reserved" would go a long way.
    Kaarloe - Degenerate Matter - Argonnessen

  8. #8
    Community Member Keybreaker's Avatar
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    Default

    I was just lamenting the fact that there used to be multiple guild tag LFMs up, no quest specified. And back then there was far less confusion about it since it was more common.

    Just observing a trend, nothing more. I didn't complain about it, nor ask people to do or not do anything, nor was I looking for help. Just observing.

    If I feel lazy enough to type "OR" in LFM and nothing else, then some people will know it's a closed raid and some people won't. No big deal. Some of the latter might demand that I let them in, and some will ask innocuous questions. Sometimes I will reply and sometimes I'll be too busy to reply. Some people get really IRATE if you don't reply within milliseconds of their unsolicited tell. Oh well.
    Keybreaker, Leader of Over Raided (Orien)

  9. #9
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    Default

    I dont understand 1 thing. Why do people apply to such LFMs if they dont even know what quest/raid it is for? Do they think that the guild tag is a shortcut of some quest's name or they just have every pack in game and are off timer for every quest/raid?

  10. #10
    The Hatchery karl_k0ch's Avatar
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    Default

    To distinguish between "Guild only", and "Hosted by Guild, pugs and friends are welcome to apply", I usually use the word only in the lfm.

    Also, when you mouse over the lfm, there is a good chance to guess the raid which is about to be done - a group leader in the upper necropolis is seldom waiting to hunt dragons. (Unless he just completed abbot and is about to go to house K, of course.)
    Toons on Orien: Meinir // Flodur // Twiddler // Thorkar // Impetor // Juliacantor // Minor all Soko Irrlicht
    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    We may or may not intentionally insert in red herrings, purple mackerels, or horses of different colors. Void where prohibited. Not available in all planes of existence.

  11. #11
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    Default

    This is why I don't join lfms that are completely blank, or even inquire. If the person doesn't list a quest, why should I spend effort gleaning information out of them via tells when there are a bunch of other lfms I can pick from or create myself? Doesn't seem worth the effort.

    However there have been a couple times I've considered asking Key to let me pike a completion for ToD, since my character was rather close to a 20th and I kept missing my own guild raids. In the end I erred on the side of not imposing as that's the most polite thing to do.


  12. #12
    Community Member Cauthey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keybreaker View Post
    If I feel lazy enough to type "OR" in LFM and nothing else, then some people will know it's a closed raid and some people won't. No big deal.
    Sometimes not willing to type: "Over Raided only"?

    I hearby propose (full tongue in cheek, here ) that you change your signature to:

    Kbr â€* Ldr OR â€* Or â€* charsig bkn, ∞

    Some people won't know what it means, and won't be able to make sense of it. They might send you PMs asking for a decrypt. Maybe you'll answer. Maybe you'll be too busy. No big deal.

    But the people that know will know.

    PLEASE FIX LAG. PLEASE FIX BUGS.

  13. #13
    The Hatchery karl_k0ch's Avatar
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    Default

    Here's the catch: Roughly 5% of the server population are on the forums. This means that this thread will not reach the majority of the people for who this information is.
    Toons on Orien: Meinir // Flodur // Twiddler // Thorkar // Impetor // Juliacantor // Minor all Soko Irrlicht
    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    We may or may not intentionally insert in red herrings, purple mackerels, or horses of different colors. Void where prohibited. Not available in all planes of existence.

  14. #14
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by karl_k0ch View Post
    Here's the catch: Roughly 5% of the server population are on the forums. This means that this thread will not reach the majority of the people for who this information is.
    You have missed the overarching point of the forums.

    It is to vent about the 95% that don't read them.


  15. #15
    Community Member Keybreaker's Avatar
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    Default





    ...
    Keybreaker, Leader of Over Raided (Orien)

  16. #16
    Community Member stainer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keybreaker View Post
    Back when I was the Raid Coordinator in Epic Fail, one of, if not the largest guild on Orien at the time (well before airships were introduces), I would put up LFMs like "EF Shroud" or "EF VoD". It just made it much easier to get the group together for raids, especially for raids like DQ where you have to split into two teams for the preraid. At the time EF was one of the few guilds that raided on Orien, but by no means was it a "raiding guild" as the guild was large and heterogeneous and raiding was certainly not the top priority for most of the members.

    However, several raiding guilds that do prioritize raiding have emerged over the years. Interestingly, most of the leaders and original members of these raiding guilds were once members of EF. OR, Myths, HB, PK, and others I'm surely forgetting.

    In any case, if you see an LFM that simply has a guild acronym, especially if there is no quest/raid specified, it's likely a closed guild/channel quest or raid.

    I thought this was commonly understood, but for whatever reason, I'm getting 20-30 tells a night asking "What is OR?" "What are you running?"

    This will probably fall on deaf ears and will likely not even reach the population that questions. I don't know why there's this sudden explosion of inquiring minds, but I have two hypotheses:
    (1) There hasn't been as many of these guild acronym LFMs recently as many raiding guilds have slowed or gone on a raiding hiatus in order to prepare for the XPAC (TR'ing seemed like a better use of time than grinding gear that would be obsolete).
    (2) Mass stoning? Sudden burst of 16-20s that are new to raiding and epics?

    Also, a bit of a tangent but:
    (1) If you are invited to a group to "pike a completion" but told you won't be able to loot chests b/c of a lockout (which most raids have)... This is a courtesy, a favor to you. You'll collect the end reward and be one completion close to a 20nth list. If you respond rudely, expect to be /squelch'd.
    (2) If you really want to insinuate yourself into a closed LFM, don't pepper the leader and non-anonymous members of the guild you find on the /who list with 20+ tells about how much you need the completion/token/rewards. That's just bad salesmanship. If you want in, you should be able to convince the gatekeeper (and no one else) of what you can contribute - not what you need.
    (3) If you see a closed, guild LFM in which everyone in the group is already in the quest, that's a solid indication that they have already started the quest. The fact that the LFM is still up is not an invitation for you. It's there so any guildie/channelmate who sees it can pop in for a free (chestless) completion, or it's still up for convenience so the group can quickly jump from raid to raid as a few members will invariably have to relog to alts.
    Maybe if you would add "closed" or "invite only" to the LFM you could save the time it took you to write out another post explaining why you do things a certain way.

  17. #17
    Community Member DrDetroit's Avatar
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    Default

    I hope you dont stop putting up the OR lfm, its always nice to see what you guys are running.

  18. #18
    Community Member Cauthey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keybreaker View Post




    ...
    Perfect!
    PLEASE FIX LAG. PLEASE FIX BUGS.

  19. #19
    Community Member Keybreaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stainer View Post
    Maybe if you would add "closed" or "invite only" to the LFM you could save the time it took you to write out another post explaining why you do things a certain way.
    Not sure about other servers, but I'm sure even if I did, I'd get:

    Tell: Hey brah, what does closed mean? Room for a barb? I need the completion.
    Tell: Invite me. I need tokens.
    Tell: i c ur short, is it closed OR reserved? i need kyosho + monk rings. i need them bad b/c i can't break DR atm.


    A bit of fun.

    I've been posting "OR" lfms (no quest specified, no other text) for over 24 months now (I joined a few weeks before airships were launched in June 2010). It has been very convenient. But again, I'm just observing a new trend of heightened inquisitiveness and entitlement over what had been the prevailing norm until the not so distant past. I'm not so naive to think anything on the forums will influence a significant number of players in-game.
    Keybreaker, Leader of Over Raided (Orien)

  20. #20
    Community Member stainer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keybreaker View Post
    Not sure about other servers, but I'm sure even if I did, I'd get:

    Tell: Hey brah, what does closed mean? Room for a barb? I need the completion.
    Tell: Invite me. I need tokens.
    Tell: i c ur short, is it closed OR reserved? i need kyosho + monk rings. i need them bad b/c i can't break DR atm.


    A bit of fun.

    I've been posting "OR" lfms (no quest specified, no other text) for over 24 months now (I joined a few weeks before airships were launched in June 2010). It has been very convenient. But again, I'm just observing a new trend of heightened inquisitiveness and entitlement over what had been the prevailing norm until the not so distant past. I'm not so naive to think anything on the forums will influence a significant number of players in-game.
    I wasn't expecting you to reply. I was expecting you to do as I said. Now I have to make a whole new thread about people who won't do what I tell them to.

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