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Thread: Flame Blade?

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    Community Member Grailhawk's Avatar
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    Default Flame Blade?

    How is this spell supposed to interact with creatures who are Immune, Resistant, or Absorb fire damage? What I saw in game was odd and did not seam to be homogeneous enough to be intended. What I saw was:

    Immune - Took main damage but was Immune the flaming or flaming burst effects
    Absorb - Took main damage but absorbed the flaming and flaming burst effects damage
    Resistant - Took 0 (yellow damage) from the main damage and 0 (orange damage) from the flaming and burst effects.

    This may have already been answered but I was unable to find it the closest I came was this post by Vesuvium. Which dose imply something is wrong with this spell but I'm not sure whats wrong.

  2. #2
    The Hatchery SisAmethyst's Avatar
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    Well, you can indeed kill a Fire Elemental or Fire Mephit with it (yellow damage from fire). An Iron Golem will be actually healed by it. It is homogen in that regard that there are no absolute resistance but Fire Elementals tend to have a very high resistance. Take even the turret from the Artificer which as well damage those mobs.



    On the other hand, why would you want to do such thing. As you can see the Flame Blade does about ~20 point of damage. The Call Lightning Spell on the other hand does way more damage than that.
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  3. #3
    Community Member Grailhawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SisAmethyst View Post
    On the other hand, why would you want to do such thing. As you can see the Flame Blade does about ~20 point of damage. The Call Lightning Spell on the other hand does way more damage than that.
    Its not about wanting to use the spell to kill a fire elemental call lightning is obviously the superior choice for that its that I want to understand how the spell is supposed to work and how bugged it is at current.

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    I found it annoying that it doesn't work very well on certain creatures, like in the cannith challenges.

    It isn't that it has to be awesome all the time, it is that it costs mana to cast and removing it from your paperdoll makes it disappear. I'd prefer the base damage be *untyped* and then have fire procs making it useful in most all situations I believe. The bonuses coming from Wisdom is the greatest boon. Alternatively, it could cast for 0 mana instantly with 0.5 sec cooldown trigger - making the effort and cost of recasting it minimal. An Icy Scythe spell would be cool as well.

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    The Hatchery SisAmethyst's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grailhawk View Post
    Its not about wanting to use the spell to kill a fire elemental call lightning is obviously the superior choice for that its that I want to understand how the spell is supposed to work and how bugged it is at current.
    Well, I wouldn't name it bugged. I got two numbers floating, one indicating the immune part of the pure fire bonus damage 1d6 (which got indeed blocked), and the yellow base damage. The 14 flame damage is actually the base damage, but as the base weapon is out of fire it deal that base damage as fire with a resistance applied. I believe a Fire Servant can as well use one of his fire spells to do damage to a Fire Elemental, but as the result is lower then hitting it with a stone, no one does it.
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    The Hatchery SisAmethyst's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reesi View Post
    I found it annoying that it doesn't work very well on certain creatures, like in the cannith challenges.

    It isn't that it has to be awesome all the time, it is that it costs mana to cast and removing it from your paperdoll makes it disappear. I'd prefer the base damage be *untyped* and then have fire procs making it useful in most all situations I believe. The bonuses coming from Wisdom is the greatest boon. Alternatively, it could cast for 0 mana instantly with 0.5 sec cooldown trigger - making the effort and cost of recasting it minimal. An Icy Scythe spell would be cool as well.
    Well *untyped* like force damage would be actually too powerful as it would slice to nearly everything. It is a situational weapon, but flame blades in general been that since forever. If you want to cast it without SP, get it as a past life

    Btw. I think I have read somewhere a Dev post that said, it was intentional to have the power of this weapon limited, as it shouldn't replace a full stack of real weapons.
    Last edited by SisAmethyst; 06-18-2012 at 02:40 PM.
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  7. #7
    Community Member Grailhawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SisAmethyst View Post
    Well, I wouldn't name it bugged. I got two numbers floating, one indicating the immune part of the pure fire bonus damage 1d6 (which got indeed blocked), and the yellow base damage. The 14 flame damage is actually the base damage, but as the base weapon is out of fire it deal that base damage as fire with a resistance applied. I believe a Fire Servant can as well use one of his fire spells to do damage to a Fire Elemental, but as the result is lower then hitting it with a stone, no one does it.
    The thing is that the base damage isn't always treated as fire, least that's what I've seen, when fighting Grey Oozes in the pit who are immune to fire they were taking full base damage from the weapons similarly Avatar of Juiblex who absorbs fire damage was taking full base damage as well. The riders flaming/flaming burst were working as they would on any other weapon.

    Later when I ran into a Trog that had fire resistance (possibly protection) the base damage from the weapons was being reduced.

    It seams to me that resistance which is the lesser form of protection from an element than absorption or immunity was giving the monsters better protection then it should, or and this is why I think its bugged absorption and immunity are not working right vs this spell.

    All that said I could be wrong and its working 100% as intended. I just feel that if the base damage is going to ignore immunity and absorption it should also ignore resistance/protection or if its going to be effected by resistance/protection it should also be effected by immunity and absorption.

  8. #8

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    There are two bugs with Flameblades damage right now that are muddying the waters, so to speak.

    First, because they have enhancement bonuses, they are damage "fire" AND damage "magic". This means that they're getting affected by DR, even though they shouldn't be.

    Second, things that have reduced (or increased!) damage vulnerability to fire, such as a Fire elemental, is taking the normal base weapon damage as if it has normal vulnerability.

    The intention is that flameblades weapon damage should be fire damage. It should be only fire damage, it should NOT be affected by DR, it SHOULD be affected by fire energy resistance, and it SHOULD NOT have any effect on creatures that are immune to fire.

  9. #9
    Community Member Grailhawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vesuvium View Post
    The intention is that flameblades weapon damage should be fire damage. It should be only fire damage, it should NOT be affected by DR, it SHOULD be affected by fire energy resistance, and it SHOULD NOT have any effect on creatures that are immune to fire.
    Thank you.

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    Community Member Will_Ferrer's Avatar
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    Default flame weapons, really?

    The past life grants 3 uses of the spell among other things.

    a few questions from in regards to monks and this spell:

    Are the weapons it creates considered "Ki Focused" meaning can monks use it and stay centered?

    Its it considered a scimitar, do I need Martial Weapon Proficiency? or Does the spell grant it?

    Is it armed or unarmed, in the sense of, does it allow monks to do unarmed attacks like stunning fist?
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  11. #11

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    It is a centered scimitar. Monks can use it without being uncentered, but it does require scimitar proficiency.

    Monks are not considered unarmed while using it.

  12. #12
    The Hatchery SisAmethyst's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vesuvium View Post
    There are two bugs with Flameblades damage right now...it should NOT be affected by DR, it SHOULD be affected by fire energy resistance, and it SHOULD NOT have any effect on creatures that are immune to fire.
    Ok, thx for chipping in and it sounds there is then already a bug report then so no need to create an other one I suppose?
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    Community Member Will_Ferrer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vesuvium View Post
    It is a centered scimitar. Monks can use it without being uncentered, but it does require scimitar proficiency.

    Monks are not considered unarmed while using it.
    I figured as much. Too bad about the proficiency would have made an awesome past life feat for monks and divine casters. Tho I still see an opening for Drow Favored Souls or Helf Divines that take the fighter Dilli.

    Oh I do have 2 more questions tho, can this spell be effected by spells that target weapons like Disjunct and Arti type buffs?!...Masters Touch.

    Are the scimitars considered slashing for the purposes of feats like Improved Critical: Slashing and weapon Focuses and Specialization Slashing
    Last edited by Will_Ferrer; 06-19-2012 at 07:03 PM.
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    Community Member Will_Ferrer's Avatar
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    double post
    Last edited by Will_Ferrer; 06-19-2012 at 06:58 PM.
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    Pirate Cursed Talias006's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Will_Ferrer View Post
    I figured as much. Too bad about the proficiency would have made an awesome past life feat for monks and divine casters. Tho I still see an opening for Drow Favored Souls or Helf Divines that take the fighter Dilli.

    Oh I do have 2 more questions tho, can this spell be effected by spells that target weapons like Disjunct and Arti type buffs?!...Masters Touch.

    Are the scimitars considered slashing for the purposes of feats like Improved Critical: Slashing and weapon Focuses and Specialization Slashing
    Drow? They don't get Scimitar auto granted...

    Unless you're referring to the bajillion Xdrizztx clones sure to be popping up now that we're headed to the FR.

    Not even Elves get it auto-granted, unless you're a Paladin/Cleric/Favored Soul of the Undying Court.
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  16. #16
    Community Member Will_Ferrer's Avatar
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    Your right, I meant Elves, I never play them so I forgot what their racial bonus weapons are. Elven FvS get an option to take Undying Court as their religion. That's the link I was referring to.
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    Ok, thx for chipping in and it sounds there is then already a bug report then so no need to create an other one I suppose?
    Correct, we've already got the bug in our system and verified! Just need to fix it now, hah.


    Oh I do have 2 more questions tho, can this spell be effected by spells that target weapons like Disjunct and Arti type buffs?!...Masters Touch.

    Are the scimitars considered slashing for the purposes of feats like Improved Critical: Slashing and weapon Focuses and Specialization Slashing
    Good questions!

    Yes, the flameblade should be able to be enchanted with weapon enchantments like Master's Touch, Elemental Weapons, Deadly Weapons, etc.

    And yes, they will still benefit from feats like Weapon Focus: Scimitar (a subfeat of Weapon Focus: Slashing).

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vesuvium View Post
    Correct, we've already got the bug in our system and verified! Just need to fix it now, hah.




    Good questions!

    Yes, the flameblade should be able to be enchanted with weapon enchantments like Master's Touch, Elemental Weapons, Deadly Weapons, etc.

    And yes, they will still benefit from feats like Weapon Focus: Scimitar (a subfeat of Weapon Focus: Slashing).
    So is that a yes or no on the imp crit slashing?
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  19. #19

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    A yes.

    Feats like "Improved Critical: Slashing" are actually a bit... misleading. Improved Critical Slashing doesn't actually do anything itself: what it does is grant you a bunch of subfeats for each of the slashing weapons. If you hit the + symbol for it, it will expand and show you a big list with Improved Critical: Longswords, Improved Critical: Shortswords, Improved Critical: Scimitar, etc., etc. Those subfeats are what actually give you the bonus, and THOSE are based on weapon type, not damage type.

    So if, for some reason, we had a scimitar that did bludgeoning damage (or fire damage, in the case of Flameblade), it would still benefit from Improved Critical: Scimitar. Which means that it would still benefit from Improved Critical: Slashing, even though it's not slashing at all!

    TLR: Yes, Flameblade will benefit from any feat that normally benefits the Scimitar weapon type, including all the "Improved Critical/Weapon Focus/Weapon Specialization: Slashing" type feats.

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    Community Member Rauven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vesuvium View Post
    If you hit the + symbol for it, it will expand and show you a big list with Improved Critical: Longswords, Improved Critical: Shortswords, Improved Critical: Scimitar, etc., etc.
    Shortswords will now deal slash damage not pierce after the update?

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