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  1. #21
    Community Member wax_on_wax_off's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sephiroth1084 View Post
    Is this WAI? I'm all for rangers getting a little love, but those first 6 levels are looking kind of ridiculous with the bonus feats...Bow Strength (stupid that this is a feat, and that it has such hefty prerequisites to boot!), Rapid Shot, Precise Shot, Manyshot, TWF, ITWF, Die Hard...That's 6.5 (Die Hard sucks right now, but apparently is slated for improvement by the devs) feats in 6 levels vs. a fighter's 4 in 6, albeit 2 of those are off-theme if you're an archer.

    If this stays in, that will be good to know.
    Hmm...that's compelling. It would mean that I could get good self-healing on either a regular elf (move points into bow attack/damage), or pick up the rogue dilly instead of the cleric for +3d6 SA damage. Haste Boost I is hard to give up, though...Twisting from Legendary Dreadnought?

    Guessing rune arms don't work with bows (not to mention the pitiful DCs and low CL).
    That opens up the option of swapping to a repeater in between 10K and MS, though I don't know if I could be bothered to do that.

    +1[W] damage/shot is worth more than the extra starting Strength from going to 14. If you want to compare damage just after level 20, it would probably be more worthwhile to go something like:
    Str 10
    Dex 18 (+2 tome and level up, or +3 tome to hit Combat Archery)
    Con 14
    Int 8
    Wis 16
    Cha 8

    You lose 2 damage per shot to gain 4.5 average/8 max per shot and a little extra. That's a good trade. The fact that there aren't really any compelling feats to be taking on this sort of character in the epic levels further adds to pushing for CA..
    Haste boost is ~+7.5% attack speed which in conjunction with versatility: damage is really nice. However, with artificer damage boost you can activate it along with 10k stars and keep the versatility: damage for manyshot. 10% on base+sneak vs 7.5% on attack speed is reasonably close overall.

    Strength is important for melee and carrying capacity, no fun to be hit with an enfeeblement and to drop out of stance on a monk. 13 starting is acceptable but 14 is much better (and so cheap). Overall though it is the cost to wisdom that I'm more concerned about, if you're putting level ups into dex then that means a lower wisdom which means less arrow procs on 10k stars for less DPS and less effects. 4.5 damage or 3% DPS? It's close, I'd lean in favour of the extra arrow procs for CC purposes.

    The prices shot was something I read in the release notes iirc, possibly has been changed, feel free to check it out.

    Crossbow is useful while leveling and makes level 1-6 with a carnifex look like a joke. Once you get 10k stars there's no reason to ever pick up a xbow again (check out the uzi threads for discourse on that topic).

    Twists sound great, I haven't gotten into the ED's yet so don't know the details but if you can get haste boost elsewhere then sounds like an even more compelling reason to go artificer.

    If you defer ranger levels there's no reason not to choose manyshot and then swap it out before taking 6 ranger. I'd possibly go 2 ranger, 1 artificer, 6 monk and choose manyshot at 9 to have that 2/3 to 3/4 archery feel from level 9 and then swap out manyshot before 6 ranger (which is still cheap at level 12). Moron Helm and maybe yugo pots is going to make 10k stars at level 9 nice I hope.
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  2. #22
    Community Member sephiroth1084's Avatar
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    Does Artificer qualify for Arcane Archer (spend an action point on a spell point enhancement a la Wizard, Sorcerer and Bard)?
    Useful links: A Guide to Using a Gamepad w/ DDO / All Caster Shroud, Hard Shroud, VoD, ToD Einhander, Elochka, Ferrumrym, Ferrumdermis, Ferrumshot, Ferrumblood, Ferrumender, Ferrumshadow, Ferrumschtik All proud officers of The Loreseekers. Except Bruucelee, he's a Sentinel!

  3. #23
    Community Member Munkenmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sephiroth1084 View Post
    Does Artificer qualify for Arcane Archer (spend an action point on a spell point enhancement a la Wizard, Sorcerer and Bard)?
    yep, been experimenting with it on lammania, works really nicely.

  4. #24
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    It works for a SECOND.

  5. #25
    Community Member wax_on_wax_off's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sephiroth1084 View Post
    Does Artificer qualify for Arcane Archer (spend an action point on a spell point enhancement a la Wizard, Sorcerer and Bard)?
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  6. #26
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    you need 30 ki per min.
    there are 10 rounds per min.
    so you need a pasive ki regen of 3.

    someone else might be answer the stacking of ki regens better then i do. im not that familiar with it(never bothered with it since 250± attacks / min in fire stance is all the ki ive ever needed melee-wise)

  7. #27
    Community Member wax_on_wax_off's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erikbozelie View Post
    you need 30 ki per min.
    there are 10 rounds per min.
    so you need a pasive ki regen of 3.

    someone else might be answer the stacking of ki regens better then i do. im not that familiar with it(never bothered with it since 250± attacks / min in fire stance is all the ki ive ever needed melee-wise)
    You don't need positive or neutral Ki gen though, you get 2 meditates and Ki at every shrine so even just with water stance III you can pew pew for 5-6 minutes non stop before meditating depending on Ki score, if you meditate at this point you'll end up with more as you'll get more than neutral Ki (but it'll decay).

    With +3 Ki gen (water stance+twist) you'll have triple or quadruple Your concentration in Ki (I can't quite recall the exact formula) when you walk into a quest and you'll even have enough to use other abilities for quite a while I'm pretty sure.

    Go do the maths.
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  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaid314 View Post
    yes. not as much as rapid shot. iirc, rapid reload and rapid shot are basically mirrors to each other; rapid shot adds 10% to bows and 5% to repeaters (give or take) while rapid reload adds 10% to repeaters and 5% to bows (give or take).
    Is this correct? Wiki says rapid reload doesn't affect bows, is DDOwiki wrong then and it does affect bows however small it might be?

  9. #29
    Community Member wax_on_wax_off's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by saco View Post
    Is this correct? Wiki says rapid reload doesn't affect bows, is DDOwiki wrong then and it does affect bows however small it might be?
    I was under the impression that Rapid Reload doesn't affect bows but I could be wrong, stranger things have happened.
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  10. #30
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
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    My own is a ranger 11 / monk 7 split. I tend to have the juice to range about as much as I want, though plenty of times I find it's better for me to pull out the +10 stunners if there's a lack of reliable CC in the party.

    I sometimes wish he was one of my more core characters instead of one getting sloppy seconds.
    Ghallanda - now with fewer alts and more ghostbane

  11. #31
    Community Member Jaid314's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by saco View Post
    Is this correct? Wiki says rapid reload doesn't affect bows, is DDOwiki wrong then and it does affect bows however small it might be?
    it's possible i am wrong. but i was pretty sure that's what testing showed. my understanding was that rapid reload speeds up the reloading portion of any animation (which is less of the time when using a bow), while rapid shot speeds up the shooting part of the animation.

  12. #32
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    Even if it's correct, it's probably not a wise choice to use it for that as it's unlikely it's intended if the description doesn't mention it.

    (Yes I know about the speed of description updates )

  13. #33
    Community Member sephiroth1084's Avatar
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    Edited OP with a little tracking on my progress so far, along with new questions for the other folks playing these sorts of characters with the new content unrolled before us.
    Useful links: A Guide to Using a Gamepad w/ DDO / All Caster Shroud, Hard Shroud, VoD, ToD Einhander, Elochka, Ferrumrym, Ferrumdermis, Ferrumshot, Ferrumblood, Ferrumender, Ferrumshadow, Ferrumschtik All proud officers of The Loreseekers. Except Bruucelee, he's a Sentinel!

  14. #34
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sephiroth1084 View Post
    Edited OP with a little tracking on my progress so far, along with new questions for the other folks playing these sorts of characters with the new content unrolled before us.
    I'm not really playing my monk archer until they fix the "switch between handwraps and a bow and sometimes you lose all your gear benefits (like heavy fort) until you re-equip everything"
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  15. #35
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    I'm not really playing my monk archer until they fix the "switch between handwraps and a bow and sometimes you lose all your gear benefits (like heavy fort) until you re-equip everything"
    I'm on a bit of a hiatus too (excluding my static group) but mostly because I can't bring myself to play my characters before the enhancement pass goes through as it's going to change how everything works even moreso than the expansion. The bugs have never really bothered me that much (I'm either just used to it or build/play around it) and I rarely see the so-called Lag Epidemic.

    Although I would love a yah or nay from the devs whether Ki gen not working with Ranged is a bug or WAI (deinately a bug IMO)
    Last edited by Failedlegend; 07-07-2012 at 07:43 AM.
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  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by sephiroth1084 View Post
    UPDATE
    So I've done the TR, and used the Stone of XP to jump up to level 16. Going with the (ultimately) 12 monk/6 ranger/2 artificer version for solid UMD and trap skills.

    I will say that the toon felt exceptionally gimp until I XP stoned. I took Manyshot at level 9 so that when I get to level 16 I'll have both Manyshot and 10K Stars to play with, and will need to feat-swap before taking ranger 6 at level 19.

    Wondering what gear everyone is looking at for levels 20-25.
    Also, wondering what Destiny you're going with, and what twists you have planned. Care to share?


    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Thinking about TRing my archer into a 12 monk/6 ranger/2 fighter and have a few questions.

    1. How far does your Ki go without meleeing? I know that the standard practice is to melee in between Stars and Manyshots, but if you were to shoot instead, how far does your Ki last you from stepping into the quest?
    2. Do you hang out in Water III stance for the +1 passive Ki regeneration? Or are you in Earth most of the time for +1 to your crit multipliers?
    3. Do you think +2 passive ki gen from an epic twist of Grandmaster of Flowers would be enough to skip having to melee between Stars and MS (that's 20 Ki/min in Earth stance, or 30/min in Water III)?
    I'll start with answers to your questions as I am currently playing 12/6/2 Monk/Ranger/Arti myself:

    1) I still haven't gotten to GMoF yet for the extra passive ki regen (only +1 of it is twistable now, the other is in the capstone) so I find myself meleeing a lot still even in water stance. Part of this is because I find it worthwhile to keep shadow fade up at all times. The survivability it provides on top of water stance dodge and solid ac is incredible.

    2) I do hang out in water stance mostly still simply because of the broken dodge on it. When they fix the dodge in patch 1 and i don't get an automatic 25% dodge I'll drop back to earth stance. The damage increase is nice from both but there is just too much survivability in terms of avoidance and saves from water. I do ocassionaly use earth still especially with manyshot on bosses but leave up water for 10k stars as it hits me the 42 wis plateau for 4 arrows.

    3) Having +1 water ki regen and +1 ki regen from GMoF twist should reach you solid sustainable ki. Add onto the ki when hit in earth stance and you should have enough to sustain combat without ever meleeing. This is especially beneficial as you get shiradi higher and if/when you get the bow from the new raid as both are amazing boosts to ranged dps. However, I do still think it is worth meleeing and stockpiling ki on trash mobs and then expending it on bosses if you can plan around it.

    As for gear and epic destiny:

    I went with the villager 3 piece and when I get the favor to upgrade the drop from the 3rd eveningstar chain I'll wear that instead of villager chest. The set bonus for water stance is lackluster however earth and air do provide nice benefits. Otherwise i'm working on farming a seal of house dun'robar for the dex/dodge/exceptional combat mastery but have had no luck so far. It pairs well with T3 ring of the stalker (still only t2 but working on it!). New raid bow is hands down best ranged weapon you can get.

    I plan on sticking with Shiradi as primary Epic Destiny for most cases but ocasionally switching it up to GMoF when i feel like being a stunbot/offtank. Between 25% incorp, 25% dodge and raid buffed 80+ AC i have enough avoidance to actually be meaningful now in the mitigation department. Planned twists are 1.5W damage from GMoF, passive ki regen from GMoF and +6 combat tactics DC from LD. I find myself stunning often enough for this last one to definately be worth it. If you can manage fine enough DC without that then I would look at twisting UMD from Fatesinger if you need help in that department or the shout from Fury of the Wild for a nice group buff (5str/5con for 15mins/rest).

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by sephiroth1084 View Post
    UPDATE
    So I've done the TR, and used the Stone of XP to jump up to level 16. Going with the (ultimately) 12 monk/6 ranger/2 artificer version for solid UMD and trap skills.
    What skill distribution did you use?

    I'm just about to TR into this build with base INT12 +4 tome.

    I figure with:

    1 A, 2 M, 3-8 R, 9-14 M, 15 A, 16-20 M - I can get 23 Concentration, 8 Balance, 23 UMD, 23 Search, 21 Disable Device, 5 Open Locks, 1 Tumble

    or

    1 A, 2-3 R, 4-9 M, 10-13 R, 14 M, 15 A, 16-20 M - I can get 23 Concentration, 3 Balance, 23 UMD, 23 Search, 23 Disable Device, 5 Open Locks, 1 Tumble
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  18. #38
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
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    Mine is one of my "budget" characters. I'm not overly invested in gear for him, others get the shiny epic items first. I'm also a Ranger 12 / Monk 7 / Fighter 1, FWIW. As an oddity and to help some with ToD, I LR'd and went light on him. He's got the amp to be meaningful (though clearly not monk 20) and wearing devotion, etc. helps.


    Epic Destiny: I'm headed for Shiradi; I plan to twist in the action boosts and tactical DCs from Legendary, primarily and ki-regen from Grandmaster.


    Gearing, as I said, is on a budget. I made him to level with a friend, and will use him to farm epics / shroud. He was plenty competitive in the old epic raids; I've not done any on him since the normal/hard/elite split but I can't imagine he'd under-perform. Still, budget ... and mostly BTA gear, though I've swapped some out for relevant Eveningstar gear.


    Head: Alchemist's Crown (WIS, devotion) ... not upgraded
    Neck: Alchemist's Pendant (CON, +1 ki / action boosts) ... not upgraded
    Body: Epic Frozen Tunic (T1 - so BTA and can move it to someone else later if I need) ... also have some Spider Silk that's relevant but forget what it is exactly.
    Arms: Wind Howler Bracers ... or swap to the villager piece if in melee a ton.
    Hands: Fabricators
    Belt: Epic Spare Hand (T1)
    Boots: Propulsion
    Ring 1: OPEN - was T2 Epic Stalker, but I've moved it around ... may throw a Dun'Robar seal here - +5 or stunning 10
    Ring 2: Cove w/ Heavy Fort
    Trinket: Madness Symbiont thing (+1 CON, GFL)
    Goggles: Drow Smoke
    Cloak: Drow Piwafi

    I'm considering moving my Cove Brawling Gauntlets to him and making him an epic Cloak of Night, but that's work - and I'm constraining myself to not overly invest in his gearing.


    I guess the message I have is that even this stuff - all mostly BTA or easy to get Eveningstar gear ... is really very servicable. 10k stars, manyshot and a wicked stunning fist is pretty potent.
    Last edited by voodoogroves; 11-05-2012 at 06:48 PM.
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  19. #39
    Community Member sephiroth1084's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by emptysands View Post
    What skill distribution did you use?

    I'm just about to TR into this build with base INT12 +4 tome.

    I figure with:

    1 A, 2 M, 3-8 R, 9-14 M, 15 A, 16-20 M - I can get 23 Concentration, 8 Balance, 23 UMD, 23 Search, 21 Disable Device, 5 Open Locks, 1 Tumble

    or

    1 A, 2-3 R, 4-9 M, 10-13 R, 14 M, 15 A, 16-20 M - I can get 23 Concentration, 3 Balance, 23 UMD, 23 Search, 23 Disable Device, 5 Open Locks, 1 Tumble
    I leveled Spot, because I like seeing traps on higher difficulties--personal preference.

    I think I ended up with 23 Concentration, 23 UMD, 23 Search, 21 Disable, 4 Open Locks, 1 Tumble, and somewhere around 18-20 Spot (figure the high Wis makes up for some ranks...could probably have dropped that lower, even). Uh...I think I started with a 14 Int, which probably explains my having some more points to play with.

    I went 1 Artificer, 2-7 ranger, 8-16 monk, 17-19 ranger, 20 artificer. If I were leveling the character instead of XP Stoning...I'd probably use a different order. Arti at 1 and 20 still, but would probably take some monk earlier and play it as a standard TWF monk that can also use a bow occasionally, or even use an LR at 20 so I can level as a Tempest.
    Useful links: A Guide to Using a Gamepad w/ DDO / All Caster Shroud, Hard Shroud, VoD, ToD Einhander, Elochka, Ferrumrym, Ferrumdermis, Ferrumshot, Ferrumblood, Ferrumender, Ferrumshadow, Ferrumschtik All proud officers of The Loreseekers. Except Bruucelee, he's a Sentinel!

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by sephiroth1084 View Post
    I leveled Spot, because I like seeing traps on higher difficulties--personal preference.

    I think I ended up with 23 Concentration, 23 UMD, 23 Search, 21 Disable, 4 Open Locks, 1 Tumble, and somewhere around 18-20 Spot (figure the high Wis makes up for some ranks...could probably have dropped that lower, even). Uh...I think I started with a 14 Int, which probably explains my having some more points to play with.

    I went 1 Artificer, 2-7 ranger, 8-16 monk, 17-19 ranger, 20 artificer. If I were leveling the character instead of XP Stoning...I'd probably use a different order. Arti at 1 and 20 still, but would probably take some monk earlier and play it as a standard TWF monk that can also use a bow occasionally, or even use an LR at 20 so I can level as a Tempest.
    What was your build? 36pt:12/16/14/14/16/8.

    I thought about pushing spot as well, plus balance. Potentially could drop DD to something like 15 and make up the points in Spot. Since Spot is a Ranger class skill would make up a reasonable level. Need to figure out what DD I need in order to hit most EE traps.

    I'm also tossing up 1 A, 2-3 M, 4-9 Ranger; for manyshot sooner. Not sure how well 10k stars works with lower Ki levels, maybe manyshot is better first up.

    I also figure a holy repeater+wraps is going pretty good until a Silver Longbow at level 6.
    Varz
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