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  1. #21
    Community Member Shade's Avatar
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    This bug is now live.

    No amount of argueing will make it not a bug. Its a bug.

    Not in release notes? bug.

    Fix please.

  2. #22
    Community Member Shade's Avatar
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    U16.1: Still not fixed.

  3. #23
    Community Member arcattaii's Avatar
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    Can't see any bug point here.. according to PHB, confirm critical roll is a special attack roll, it will also auto fail on 1.

  4. #24
    Community Member Munkenmo's Avatar
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    Sarissa makes a pretty good point.

    With citations too.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by fTdOmen View Post
    Sarissa makes a pretty good point.

    With citations too.
    True enough.

    But DDO does not conform to every, or nearly every, D&D3.5 mechanic, and it's still a change to how it's worked in DDO as long as I can remember, and as such it really ought to be in the release notes. As long as it hasn't been put in any release notes, I don't blame Shade for considering it a bug.
    <seemingly offensive Army of Darkness quote>

  6. #26
    Community Member Shade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arcattaii View Post
    Can't see any bug point here.. according to PHB, confirm critical roll is a special attack roll, it will also auto fail on 1.
    In the PHB we also use a d20, and not a D100 to do attack rolls. Is that a bug then? Or the fact we don't ever "miss", we do grazing hits" could go on forever, the fact is that DDO uses a VERY different system that secretly rolls a d100, then obscurs the data to look like a d20 to us, so its nothing alike aside from show nowadays.

    Not to mention a billion other changes.

    If the change was not in the release notes, it's a bug. It's that simple.

    Referencing PnP especially in regards to a system which was COMPLETELY changed to not even begin to match the one in pnp in the patch this bug appeared, makes absolutely zero sense.

    Cite all you want, your logic is utterly flawed. DDO != DnD.
    Last edited by Shade; 12-08-2012 at 02:41 PM.

  7. #27
    Community Member 9Crows's Avatar
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    i would say its a bug or an undocumented change...since i know i used to crit on a 1 on a crit confirm roll ..and now i dont ...so if something was working one way and now its not...it is either an unintended change(bug) or an intended 1...

  8. #28
    Community Member nivarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
    Snip
    Get off your high horse, because your logic is also flawed.

    A bug is an unintended behavior of a program. If the devs purposedly changed the behavior then it is not a bug but a change, every unanounced change is not a bug.
    I'm pretty sure the game engine goes thru many announced changes, most of them have no impact for us, some do.

    On the other hand, such changes should announced since it does have a direct impact on us.

    Oh also the part on D100 roll and such is well... useless. It's not about obscuring something, it's just that a RNG produces a certain kind of output, for example a value between 0 and max(int), you then use a simple mathematic operation to convert the generated number to a value in the range you want.
    But maybe you think some PnP games try to obfuscate things when they ask you to throw 2d10 to generate 1d100, since it's not directly the correct die.

    TL;DR:
    Maybe a bug, but the fact that it hasn't been announced doesn't mean it is a bug.

  9. #29
    Community Member arcattaii's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
    In the PHB we also use a d20, and not a D100 to do attack rolls. Is that a bug then? Or the fact we don't ever "miss", we do grazing hits" could go on forever, the fact is that DDO uses a VERY different system that secretly rolls a d100, then obscurs the data to look like a d20 to us, so its nothing alike aside from show nowadays.

    Not to mention a billion other changes.

    If the change was not in the release notes, it's a bug. It's that simple.

    Referencing PnP especially in regards to a system which was COMPLETELY changed to not even begin to match the one in pnp in the patch this bug appeared, makes absolutely zero sense.

    Cite all you want, your logic is utterly flawed. DDO != DnD.
    DDO rule is based on PHB, devs will list what they changed/added in the release note, such as "grazing hits" in Release Notes DDO Unlimited Official, but they don't need to list all the unchanged things.

    I know they have changed the entire attack/defense system, but it's internally. Devs said they will visually simulate a d20 roll for players, that means though the internal calculation is changed, "roll 1 = auto fail" is not. This is logical and understandable.
    Last edited by arcattaii; 12-08-2012 at 10:43 PM.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by arcattaii View Post
    DDO rule is based on PHB, devs will list what they changed/added in the release note, such as "grazing hits" in Release Notes DDO Unlimited Official, but they don't need to list all the unchanged things.

    I know they have changed the entire attack/defense system, but it's internally. Devs said they will visually simulate a d20 roll for players, that means though the internal calculation is changed, "roll 1 = auto fail" is not. This is logical and understandable.
    But it did NOT work this way for many years. If this was not intended, it should have been in the Known Issues. And in any case, changing a longstanding mechanic should at least warrant a note in the Release Notes.

    Just like when they fixed the evasion in heavy armor issue.
    <seemingly offensive Army of Darkness quote>

  11. #31

  12. #32
    Community Member Shade's Avatar
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    Still bugged in U17.

  13. #33
    Hero Gkar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarisa View Post
    The SRD wording actually says you make an actual attack roll against the targets AC to see if you hit to confirm the crit. It uses the standard attack roll rules, including the 1-is-always-a-miss.

    This is a nerf, yes, but it's also closer to the few remains of PnP we have.

    http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/act...m#criticalHits


    http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/com...htm#attackRoll
    By your logic if the roll a 20 on the crit confirmation it is a critical crit confirmation and you need to roll a confirmation on the critical crit confirmation so you can get a crit-crit?

    Dumb eh?

    When reading the SRD you are supposed to apply common sense and consider that the specific situation overrules the general rule. Neither the 1 or the 20 apply on a crit confirmation.

    But I guess I can't expect that the Devs understand D&D rules these days so why should the players, right?

  14. #34
    Community Member HungarianRhapsody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
    This bug is now live.

    No amount of argueing will make it not a bug. Its a bug.

    Not in release notes? bug.

    Fix please.
    It's a change. It used to be a bug. Now it works correctly according to D&D's rules.

    No amount of argueing will make it a bug. It's just a change that you don't like.

    Given that it still works this way, looks like it's not going to be reverted, either.

  15. #35
    Community Member fco-karatekid's Avatar
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    This necro'ed thread is 'bull'.

    Clearly, that bug is a 'ruminant' leftover from the MoTU launch.

    I recommend we 'moooooove' on.

    Udder nonsense.


  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gkar View Post
    When reading the SRD you are supposed to apply common sense and consider that the specific situation overrules the general rule. Neither the 1 or the 20 apply on a crit confirmation.
    You want to go making absolute statements like that, you should probably back it up with a citation, otherwise you're butt talking like the rest of us. IMO, as written, a critical confirmation absolutely follows the normal attack roll rules because it is an attack roll. In fact, it's the exact same attack roll.

    That said, as far as I know, that has never been the case in DDO.

    And your first point, as a snarky response, fails a bit since there was, at least at one point, in 3E, a variant that worked on the idea of a natural 20 on the confirmation roll.

    so why should the players, right?
    As I say, unless you can back it up, that includes you.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by fco-karatekid View Post
    This necro'ed thread is 'bull'.

    Clearly, that bug is a 'ruminant' leftover from the MoTU launch.

    I recommend we 'moooooove' on.

    Udder nonsense.

    Well, MOTU combat change itself seems borked, so I'm not surprised this is, too. Last night I hit a monster with a grazing hit on a 2, and next attack (same mob, and same attack bonus) missed. We are not supposed to miss on a 2, I was given to understand.
    <seemingly offensive Army of Darkness quote>

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