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  1. #21
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    the healing these days is especially fun with all the level 16 newbs running around in complete trash for gear and no clue what they are doing.

  2. #22
    Community Member herzkos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alcedes View Post
    the healing these days is especially fun with all the level 16 newbs running around in complete trash for gear and no clue what they are doing.
    nah, it's been pretty standard for the 5 years i've been playing.
    "healer" joins pug- pug goes pearshaped. Harder quests that are run without a "healer" are often smoother
    than the easy quest run with a "healer" due to player stupidity.

    obviously not all pugs are this way, but enough of them are that people stop running their divines in pugs.
    The Office of the Exchequer. 1750 on all live servers via Pure pugging. Thank you very much to all who helped carry a gimp . (wayfinder was a soloist build)


  3. #23
    Community Member DeafeningWhisper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alcedes View Post
    the healing these days is especially fun with all the level 16 newbs running around in complete trash for gear and no clue what they are doing.
    Healed a shroud yesterday, when people started talking about which GS armor to get I knew I was in for some fun, it was hard but really interesting and rather fun.

    Oddly enough the only one who didn't listened and acted on his own was a Tr, newbs listened and adapted. Tr got a few melees killed with his "stay in ,we can do this!" call, it was a 3 rounder by the way.
    "Pike or do not. There is no lag."

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeafeningWhisper View Post
    Healed a shroud yesterday, when people started talking about which GS armor to get I knew I was in for some fun, it was hard but really interesting and rather fun.

    Oddly enough the only one who didn't listened and acted on his own was a Tr, newbs listened and adapted. Tr got a few melees killed with his "stay in ,we can do this!" call, it was a 3 rounder by the way.
    i play with a lot of experienced players and most of them cant "stay in" thru the blades. i am able to with my tank, even on elite, but i cannot imagine a bunch of under geared fresh 16's who are still learning their toons trying that. i almost wish i could have seen it. lol

  5. #25
    Community Member Sarisa's Avatar
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    I played Cleric since I started this game, because I actually like playing a support role. I also like classes that while good support, also have a good ability to fight and take care of themselves. That was the power of PnP Clerics, and for most of the game, the power of Clerics in DDO.

    The problems are mostly society related. A lot of people, like already said, have a "hero" mentality, or an extreme sense of entitlement. I do enjoy supporting. I don't enjoy being told and expected to have to do nothing but devote my entire time to keeping this "hero" alive, when he (and it's almost ALWAYS a he...) does nothing to mitigate damage or play smartly.

    That is the main annoyance of PUG healing, since for every few good or average group that lets you play your ENTIRE class (damage, CC, buffing, and healing), there is one that will try your patience and "goodwill to fellow man" to the limit.

    I also distinctly remember the difficulty in being able to afford to play my Cleric when I started. Granted, that was back in update 4 and 5, when there was far less money potential. A run of something like locked-shrine Tear would end up costing me significantly more than I earned from the chests in the average or bad group.

    Regarding Cleric vs. FvS, it's mostly a topic for another thread, but the current advantages of Clerics to FvS's are very small. (Currently) Clerics have an AoE heal that works under anti-magic, FvS's only have a single target heal that works under anti-magic, and only with the Sovereign Host line.

    Clerics have 1 more potential WIS, but that only matters in some cases, and even with the WIS advantage, FvS's have an effective +2 DC for anything in their Aura of Menace, so FvS's still would have the DC advantage. This WIS advantage can lead to +1 Will save, which is something that doesn't usually matter either due to buffs or due to the extreme DC's of high level will save effects (eParty traps, Otto's Sphere from epic casters, forgetting Prot-Evil when facing eChrono Abishai).

    Clerics can splash without losing as much, due to the strong but situational capstone being less desirable than a FvS's capstone and DR.

  6. #26
    Halfling Hero phalaeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hifdfklgdfdkg View Post
    and when your doin a raid just ask the "who channel" go through the fvs and cleric range and ask if you would like to come.... your sure to get at least one yes out of those many you ask
    Do you have any idea how annoying this is to people who primarily play divines?

    I can read the ****ing LFMs too, you know. It's not like the LFM panel shows up for everyone BUT divines....

    You say you're sure to get one out of the many you ask... you're also probably going to get squelched by a few as well.
    EDIT: And don't tell me to go anon... it's obnoxious to try and remember every time you log onto your healers, even just to grab something from the bank. Early on, I made a Cleric bank char... don't ask me why I did, but she got deleted really quickly and replaced by a gross melee ranger mix with Favoured Enemy: Ooze.
    Last edited by phalaeo; 06-12-2012 at 12:05 PM.
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  7. #27
    Community Member Ungood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by budalic View Post
    As far as being op goes, I'd rather have every class self-healing and do away with healer role.
    This!

    Really, Turbine, it's time to do away with the need for "Healers" the players that play divines have made it clear they don't want to be "healz bots" so, lets make this happen.

    If there were less people looking for "healz" there would be more people playing divines. You want to fill a group with divines, tell 'em you don't need them to heal, they flock to BYOH LFM's all the time.

    So the real answer to get people to play Divines to remove this "Healer" nonsense from the game, and that can only happen if all the classes are given easy to acquire self healing.

    Self-sufficiency should not be something people put on their goal for "Life 3" it should be something bult into all the classes.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ungood View Post
    This!

    Really, Turbine, it's time to do away with the need for "Healers" the players that play divines have made it clear they don't want to be "healz bots" so, lets make this happen.

    If there were less people looking for "healz" there would be more people playing divines. You want to fill a group with divines, tell 'em you don't need them to heal, they flock to BYOH LFM's all the time.

    So the real answer to get people to play Divines to remove this "Healer" nonsense from the game, and that can only happen if all the classes are given easy to acquire self healing.

    Self-sufficiency should not be something people put on their goal for "Life 3" it should be something bult into all the classes.

    There is already quite a number of ways to be self-sufficient, but the problem is, its not easy for players to understand or access them.

    For example, a ranger or pally can cast cure spells. But this is pretty useless without properly speccing the char.

    To make it work, the ranger/pally needs to invest a bit of AP into devotion enhancements, get some healing amp gear and a devotion item. If he has all of these, a cure serious wounds can heal for 100+ hp for 12 sp. With a metamagic feat like empower healing or maximize, a CSW will heal over 300+ hp for very high healing amp builds.


    So why don't we see more pally/rangers being more self-sufficient in healing themselves?

    1) Healing amp items is not easily accessible to the average player. Most are high level raid or epic items, obviously out of the reach of the average player. Second, because healing amp is not visible on the char sheet, the average or casual player simply don't understand it or perhaps isn't even aware of it. HA needs to be more visible, preferably on the char sheet.

    2) Devotion items that help with self-healing is almost always found on weapons on random loot. This makes it useless for melees to try to slot it without gimping their dps. My pally has to craft devotion on a trinket, again, something that won't be obvious to a casual player. There needs to be more devotion items on non-weapon slots for the self-sufficient melee build.

    3) Healing effects stacks multiplicatively. Without 1 and 2, it is not worth trying to buy levels of devotion enhancements. So most rangers/pallies simply don't bother.

    4) Pallies and rangers are feat starved, the former especially so. Burning a feat to improve self-sufficiency takes a back-seat when your dps is already behind the fighter/barb. So its easier to just focus entirely on dps.

    MotU looks like it will make a couple of improvements here. Hopefully, this will slightly un-gimp rangers and pallies by allowing them to be more self-sufficient.
    Last edited by aerosole; 06-12-2012 at 11:05 PM.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xezrak View Post
    That being said I really don't mind if FvS/Cleric are more OP than other classes, make blade barrier/implosion a little more powerful, give them more sp, I don't mind how just make players want to play divines. I really don't think the overwhelming majority of players want to play a divine to be heal bot. If you do play a healer to be a pure healbot and have full epiced out gear please link your toon because I highly doubt that many such players will exist.

    Long story short - encourage more divines, even if it means they will be slightly OP.

    I think if we want to make the game harder, make it harder in a way that doesn't make it disproportionately harder on the healers.
    Except this creates an even worse problem: people create divines and would rather solo not heal because any other class is less useful and not worth scaling. It is already a problem now. This just makes it worse. Very bad idea.

    Additionally, my fvs is fairly well geared and designed to be more of a nuker but often in raids I will play conservatively and be a healbot. I think the reason you don't see healbots with uber gear is that there is little reason you can't be a melee divine or offensive caster divine AND heal well. What do you have better as healbot? 2 mental toughness feats and more cha on a fvs? Not worth it.

    Quote Originally Posted by budalic View Post
    As far as being op goes, I'd rather have every class self-healing and do away with healer role, but I understand that's not common opinion.
    The game consists of classes and roles. It's bad enough the d20 system is gone. Giving every character every ability just creates a bland game. I like my characters to have advantages and disadvantages that are different so the playstyle isn't repetitive. And as you said, I am pretty sure most people would rather not have all self healers. It is a social game not a single player game.

    Quote Originally Posted by herzkos View Post
    the reason (and this may have already been stated) that pug "healers" are hard to find
    is that there are very few players out there that want to be the "sidekick" to all of the
    egomaniac heroes.
    ...
    Very true. When you heal a guild run, you know they will heal your full DPS no defense melee later. Not the case in a random pug. And when you do heal a pug, they often make no effort to make your life easier. And I am not talking about self healing and having evasion/AC. I am talking about simple things like not running a barb through a trap and into 10 more mobs while your group is already fighting.
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  10. #30
    Community Member FranOhmsford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aelonwy View Post
    My main is my cleric, Aelonwy, on Thelanis. She isn't a healbot, she's a caster cleric however i do mainly heal with her and cast offensively for situational purposes. I do not seek for my cleric to be OP (never played a FVS) but I would appreciate the devs changing the healing of groups and raids to be less resource intensive. Perhaps this could be done in the enhancment pass by making healing enhancements cheaper or better, or by making healing spells slightly less expensive sp pt wise, or reducing the animation length of heals somewhat.

    Essentially, if they want to encourage healing they should stop making things so expensive for us. Its great when someone is kind enough to reimburse their healer but you can bet it doesn't happen that often in PUGS. Typically, we get the other end of the stick... that is rude ppl complaining that we aren't behaving like their personal hireling. Don't get me wrong, I understand that the devs have zero control over ppl's behavior, but if they made healing as effortless and inexpensive as possible (while still maintaining game balance) it would be less of a hassle and aggravation to heal groups that are not made up of the most considerate ppl. (By considerate, I mean not running off from group, not running ahead to pad kill count, yelling and/or swearing at me because I stayed with group instead of following them around.) There are only so many ppl I can put on my list as not fun to group with.

    I would also appreciate getting some enhancements to my offensive spells that currently don't exist such as fire and untyped dmg but I'm not holding my breath since it feels like they don't want clerics to do anything but heal. I'd like my domains too but thats probably never going to happen because cleric is a F2P class.
    /Signed

    Quick suggestion for Domains.

    Take two Forgotten Realms Gods - I'm not up to date with which ones are still available. {Preferably give Dwarves their own finally}.

    Make the Domain take up a Feat Slot

    Charge 150TP for each

    See just how many people pay for that Feat to be available to them.

    If it works - Do the same for Sov Host/Silver Flame etc. {obviously remove the outdated Feats we currently have} and other Realms Deities.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yalann View Post
    The game consists of classes and roles. It's bad enough the d20 system is gone. Giving every character every ability just creates a bland game. I like my characters to have advantages and disadvantages that are different so the playstyle isn't repetitive. And as you said, I am pretty sure most people would rather not have all self healers. It is a social game not a single player game.
    Idk, really. Guild wars 2 is doing away with healers.

    I feel that in it's current incarnation, DDO would be better without dedicated healers in quests (raids are different, though) - same as you don't need dedicated tank in pretty much every epic quest currently on live. Why?

    a) Because self-healing is already avilaible to casters, that are most effective toons. Giving self-healing to fighters and barbs (though, there are already silver flame pots there) and stuff won't unbalance the game, because you could just get another sorc in that slot and nuke the **** out of stuff.

    b) It makes one type of classes too dependable upon others. While really good players probably can get away with blasting and healing at same time, healing multiple party members is thought consuming. I've seen melees get dissapointed in last fight of eServants (pre-nerf) when my FvS friend needed to kite cats through blade barrier and couldn't keep them all alive. However, we decided not to wait for another divine at start of quest, because they aren't that easy to get. If they at least had modicum of self-healing, they would get to contribute.

    What about people that like playing healers?
    Hmm, IMO, there should be dedicated healer class for them. There was class called simply 'Healer' in 3.5e; in miniatures handbook, I think. So, we could apply same to DDO - make a class that is focused on healing, buffing and preventing damage - sort of like CC in reverse. So that you'd like to have it with you, because that healer guy is awesome, and it's gonna provide you with sweet defensive abilities, gonna heal you when you can't - and isn't better off casting blade barriers, instakills, and ignoring healing.

    I'm all for roles in raids, though - tanks, healers, damage, crowd control, ranged damage, buffing - everything should have place there.

  12. #32
    Community Member butcheredspirit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by taurean430 View Post
    I'd say they need two things viewing the new xpac stuff:

    Earthquake
    Storm of Vengence

    Oh, and Sunbeam (wishful thinking). But dead serious on the first others.

    Some people actually build raid healing capable casting divines. It only makes sense to give them the spells their counterparts in PnP have out of the box as they say.
    Regenerate and Ice Flowers could be added to that list

    Sunbeam may be wisful thinking....actually it all feels like wishful thinking now.

    Quote Originally Posted by FranOhmsford View Post
    /Signed

    Quick suggestion for Domains.

    Take two Forgotten Realms Gods - I'm not up to date with which ones are still available. {Preferably give Dwarves their own finally}.

    Make the Domain take up a Feat Slot

    Charge 150TP for each

    See just how many people pay for that Feat to be available to them.

    If it works - Do the same for Sov Host/Silver Flame etc. {obviously remove the outdated Feats we currently have} and other Realms Deities.

    I would love to be able to take a Forgotten Realms god. Those gods seem more interesting to me, as they are more present and active.

    I would object if we were made to pay for domains with a feat, they really should be free.
    Infact they should grant small feats!

    Shameful as it is, I would pay for that.
    I wish the cleric class was released as P2P, then we might get toughness enhancments, domains, divine metamagics.

  13. #33
    The Hatchery MRMechMan's Avatar
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    Divines as is: Plenty of them, and many can solo better than most classes. Often don't join groups due to bad experiences. Healing a party of people who are undergeared, don't know quest and are straight up STUPID and won't listen...well lets just say it ranges from annoying to unplayable. Being commanded around like a hire and having to wait for idiots to wander around in the desert looking for chains of flame, etc...well it is easier just to solo, put up restrictive lfms (omg elitest!) or put BYOH. It isn't worth the headache.


    Divines if nerfed: If divines cannot solo for whatever reason...well that is the entire appeal of them for a lot of people. I really enjoy raid healing, but if getting to 20 means I am at the mercy of pug melees...my clr/fvs would never have gotten rolled. Ever. I am OK healbotting sometimes but all the time is horrifying. So there will definitely be less of them, perhaps more join groups because they cannot solo, but that is a poor solution I think. Nerfing a classes abilities to make them party with other classes just seems...wrong. Would rather buff the other classes.

    I think the solution really is to give melee better healing options. Make them better dps so that they are actually worth bringing along, they actually speed things up. Reduce dungeon scaling. If you have 2-3 sorcs/divines with blade barrier, etc...you NEVER need a melee. Maybe for a str lever or something equally flavoresque. In fact, you not only hardly ever need them, you don't want them around for 1-19 as they are a -10% XP pot, can't self heal, add nothing. Zerging on a melee is HORRIFYINGLY awful. After playing a sorc to 20 and any melee...it is just night and day in terms of raw speed.

    If I see an lfm for clr/fvs only, elite sins of attrition and 5 melee in the group...that is my idea of hell.

    On the other hand, joining a party of first timer undergeared new players and dragging them through a normal TOD or something I find to be quite enjoyable. But for TRing it is a waste of time.

    Anyway, I think clr/fvs should be kept fun. Not many people will roll a fvs/clr just for a support roll/just to heal pugs. If they aren't fun to play, there is no motivation in ever playing them, and divines are truely the glue that holds the pug scene together at the moment.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarisa View Post
    Clerics have 1 more potential WIS, but that only matters in some cases, and even with the WIS advantage, FvS's have an effective +2 DC for anything in their Aura of Menace, so FvS's still would have the DC advantage. This WIS advantage can lead to +1 Will save, which is something that doesn't usually matter either due to buffs or due to the extreme DC's of high level will save effects (eParty traps, Otto's Sphere from epic casters, forgetting Prot-Evil when facing eChrono Abishai).

    Clerics can splash without losing as much, due to the strong but situational capstone being less desirable than a FvS's capstone and DR.
    1) Situational, yes, but I promise you my cleric tries to take advantage of the FvS aura whenever possible. In fact, since she's at middling DC levels, I find the presence of an FvS boosts her performance significantly. Counting the Aura of Menace as an FvS only boost might undersell clerics.

    2) At least for me, splashing on a cleric vs FvS is more an issue of the number of ninth level spells you get. You can still get the implosion-mass heal-energy drain series on an 18th level cleric. Splash an FvS at all and you're down to 2. Of course, maybe my addiction to energy drain is more because of my middling DCs than how critical the spell itself might be.

    3) Being able to splash a cleric, potentially gaining extra feats on a feat-starved class while retaining those three ninth level slots, opens you up to DC boosters. e.g. monk water stance, taking wizard active PL, spell focus evocation, etc.

    That said, it's super depressing when you see another divine with ~180% your SP, a bunch more hp, and wings to boot. Sob.
    Last edited by sandypaws; 06-13-2012 at 07:32 AM.

  15. #35
    Community Member Emili's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FranOhmsford View Post
    /Signed

    Quick suggestion for Domains.

    Take two Forgotten Realms Gods - I'm not up to date with which ones are still available. {Preferably give Dwarves their own finally}.

    Make the Domain take up a Feat Slot

    Charge 150TP for each

    See just how many people pay for that Feat to be available to them.

    If it works - Do the same for Sov Host/Silver Flame etc. {obviously remove the outdated Feats we currently have} and other Realms Deities.
    Pretty much I always viewed DDO's static cure spell force as the healing Domain... Then there are questions arise such as alignment ties and racial ties, One must remember Faerun rules tightly couple and if relaxed, wonder how slotting of those - hard pressed cure spell slots will be covered by domains?

    Human pantheons
    Major Faerunian deities
    Azuth • Bane • Chauntea • Cyric • Eilistraee • Gond • Helm • Ilmater • Kelemvor • Kossuth • Lathander • Lolth • Malar • Mask • Mielikki • Mystra • Oghma • Selûne • Shar • Shaundakul • Silvanus • Sune • Talos • Tempus • Torm • Tymora • Tyr • Umberlee • Uthgar • Waukeen

    Other Faerunian deities
    Akadi • Auril • Beshaba • Deneir • Eldath • Finder • Garagos • Gargauth • Grumbar • Gwaeron Windstrom • Hoar • Istishia • Jergal • Lliira • Loviatar • Lurue • Milil • Nobanion • Red Knight • Savras • Sharess • Shiallia • Siamorphe • Talona • Tiamat • Ubtao • Ulutiu • Valkur • Velsharoon

    Kara-Turan pantheon
    Ai Ch'ing • Chan Cheng • Ch'en Hsiang • Chih Shih • Fa Kuan • Hsing Yong • Kwan Ying • Mad Monkey • Nung Chiang • Shu Chia • The Celestial Emperor

    Maztican pantheon
    Azul • Eha • Kiltzi • Maztica • Nula • Plutoq • Qotal • Tezca • Watil • Zaltec

    Mulhorandi pantheon
    Anhur • Geb • Hathor • Horus-Re • Isis • Nephthys • Osiris • Sebek • Set • Thoth

    Zakharan pantheon
    Bala • Hajama • Hakiyah • Haku • Jauhar • Jisan • Kor • Najm • Ragarra • Selan • Vataqatal • Zann

    Demihuman and humanoid pantheons
    Drow pantheon
    Lolth • Ghaunadaur • Kiaransalee • Selvetarm • Vhaeraun

    Dwarven pantheon
    Abbathor • Berronar Truesilver • Clangeddin Silverbeard • Deep Duerra • Dugmaren Brightmantle • Dumathoin • Gorm Gulthyn • Haela Brightaxe • Laduguer • Marthammor Duin • Moradin • Sharindlar • Thard Harr • Vergadain

    Elven pantheon
    Aerdrie Faenya • Angharradh • Corellon Larethian • Deep Sashelas • Erevan Ilesere • Fenmarel Mestarine • Hanali Celanil • Labelas Enoreth • Rillifane Rallathil • Sehanine Moonbow • Shevarash • Solonor Thelandira

    Gnome pantheon
    Baervan Wildwanderer • Baravar Cloakshadow • Callarduran Smoothhands • Flandal Steelskin • Gaerdal Ironhand • Garl Glittergold • Segojan Earthcaller • Urdlen

    Halfling pantheon
    Arvoreen • Brandobaris • Cyrrollalee • Sheela Peryroyl • Urogalan • Yondalla

    Orc pantheon
    Bahgtru • Gruumsh • Ilneval • Luthic • Shargaas • Yurtrus

    Yes, I was a geeky young one...
    A Baker's dozen in the Prophets of the New Republic and Fallen Heroes.
    Abaigeal(TrBd25), Ailiae(TrDrd2), Ambyre(Rgr25), Amilia(Pl20), Einin(TrRgr25), Emili(TrFgt25), Heathier(TrClc22), Kynah(TrMnk25), Meallach(Brb25), Misbehaven(TrArt22), Myara(Rog22), Rosewood(TrBd25) and Sgail(TrWiz20) little somethings with flavour 'n favour

  16. #36
    Community Member Aelonwy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FranOhmsford View Post
    /Signed

    Quick suggestion for Domains.

    Take two Forgotten Realms Gods - I'm not up to date with which ones are still available. {Preferably give Dwarves their own finally}.

    Make the Domain take up a Feat Slot

    Charge 150TP for each

    See just how many people pay for that Feat to be available to them.

    If it works - Do the same for Sov Host/Silver Flame etc. {obviously remove the outdated Feats we currently have} and other Realms Deities.
    2 Domains are free to clerics at creation according to PnP, if I had to use an existing feat slot for them there is no way in heck I'd pay for it even if it was sooo grossly overpowering ppl demand it as a must have... obviously because anything that OP would be doomed to nerf after ppl paid for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Emili View Post


    Pretty much I always viewed DDO's static cure spell force as the healing Domain...
    [/I]

    NO.
    The static cure spells represent PnP Good/Neutral clerics Spontaneous Casting that is the channeling of stored spell energy into healing spells that the cleric did not prepare ahead of time. If we had evil alignments neutral clerics could choose at first level to have static inflict spells instead.
    "Its not D&D anymore, more D$D." -- Brannigan
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  17. #37
    The Hatchery MRMechMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emili View Post


    Pretty much I always viewed DDO's static cure spell force as the healing Domain... Then there are questions arise such as alignment ties and racial ties, One must remember Faerun rules tightly couple and if relaxed, wonder how slotting of those - hard pressed cure spell slots will be covered by domains?

    Human pantheons
    Major Faerunian deities
    Azuth • Bane • Chauntea • Cyric • Eilistraee • Gond • Helm • Ilmater • Kelemvor • Kossuth • Lathander • Lolth • Malar • Mask • Mielikki • Mystra • Oghma • Selûne • Shar • Shaundakul • Silvanus • Sune • Talos • Tempus • Torm • Tymora • Tyr • Umberlee • Uthgar • Waukeen

    Other Faerunian deities
    Akadi • Auril • Beshaba • Deneir • Eldath • Finder • Garagos • Gargauth • Grumbar • Gwaeron Windstrom • Hoar • Istishia • Jergal • Lliira • Loviatar • Lurue • Milil • Nobanion • Red Knight • Savras • Sharess • Shiallia • Siamorphe • Talona • Tiamat • Ubtao • Ulutiu • Valkur • Velsharoon

    Kara-Turan pantheon
    Ai Ch'ing • Chan Cheng • Ch'en Hsiang • Chih Shih • Fa Kuan • Hsing Yong • Kwan Ying • Mad Monkey • Nung Chiang • Shu Chia • The Celestial Emperor

    Maztican pantheon
    Azul • Eha • Kiltzi • Maztica • Nula • Plutoq • Qotal • Tezca • Watil • Zaltec

    Mulhorandi pantheon
    Anhur • Geb • Hathor • Horus-Re • Isis • Nephthys • Osiris • Sebek • Set • Thoth

    Zakharan pantheon
    Bala • Hajama • Hakiyah • Haku • Jauhar • Jisan • Kor • Najm • Ragarra • Selan • Vataqatal • Zann

    Demihuman and humanoid pantheons
    Drow pantheon
    Lolth • Ghaunadaur • Kiaransalee • Selvetarm • Vhaeraun

    Dwarven pantheon
    Abbathor • Berronar Truesilver • Clangeddin Silverbeard • Deep Duerra • Dugmaren Brightmantle • Dumathoin • Gorm Gulthyn • Haela Brightaxe • Laduguer • Marthammor Duin • Moradin • Sharindlar • Thard Harr • Vergadain

    Elven pantheon
    Aerdrie Faenya • Angharradh • Corellon Larethian • Deep Sashelas • Erevan Ilesere • Fenmarel Mestarine • Hanali Celanil • Labelas Enoreth • Rillifane Rallathil • Sehanine Moonbow • Shevarash • Solonor Thelandira

    Gnome pantheon
    Baervan Wildwanderer • Baravar Cloakshadow • Callarduran Smoothhands • Flandal Steelskin • Gaerdal Ironhand • Garl Glittergold • Segojan Earthcaller • Urdlen

    Halfling pantheon
    Arvoreen • Brandobaris • Cyrrollalee • Sheela Peryroyl • Urogalan • Yondalla

    Orc pantheon
    Bahgtru • Gruumsh • Ilneval • Luthic • Shargaas • Yurtrus

    Yes, I was a geeky young one...
    THAT LIST RIGHT THERE GOT ME MORE PUMPED FOR THE EXPANSION THAN ANYTHING YET!

    thank you

  18. #38
    Community Member FranOhmsford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aelonwy View Post
    2 Domains are free to clerics at creation according to PnP, if I had to use an existing feat slot for them there is no way in heck I'd pay for it even if it was sooo grossly overpowering ppl demand it as a must have... obviously because anything that OP would be doomed to nerf after ppl paid for it.
    I was talking about the Silver Flame/Sov Host/Vulkoor etc. Feat Slot we have on our Divines at this moment.

    I was talking about adding in two proper Realms Deities - Possibly Moradin for the Dwarves and Tyr.

    Then buffing up the existing ones to equal the new feats.
    Say instead of simply getting +1 to Scimitars and Undying Call Elven Clerics/FavSouls of the Undying Court got +2 to all Necromancy DCs, +1/2 to hit and +2/4 dmg with Scimitars and Undying Call 3x/Rest
    Elven Paladins of the Undying Court could get +3 To Hit and +3/6/9/12 to Dmg {Lvls 1, 6, 12 and 18} with Scimitars/Falchions instead of the Necro DCs

    The existing ones would essentially remain F2P unless you chose to buy the P2P version.

    I personally don't see this as in any way OP BUT I do feel that we need more from each Religion choice.

    Maybe the Devs could also give us some more House J favour so we can hit 400 {Domains could be the favour reward for this - For those who prefer to stay F2P}.

  19. #39
    Community Member HatsuharuZ's Avatar
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    Clerics need less expensive spell amp, a wider range of spells and domains. For those who don't know, domains give clerics bonus spells, additional effects on their turn undead ability, improved turning ability, or some extra feats depending on which domains are picked. For example: The "Earth" domain could give a cleric the Toughness feat at first level, and later on he'd gain access to the Stoneskin spell at the level it would become available to an arcane caster. In a second example, the "Good" domain would allow a cleric to turn OUTSIDERS along with undead.

    Melees need to be able to get enough AC so that they don't get hit 95% of the time on all high level quests... which, I believe, is going to happen in Update 14. That'll solve part of the healing problem, I hope.

  20. #40
    Community Member Sarisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HatsuharuZ View Post
    Melees need to be able to get enough AC so that they don't get hit 95% of the time on all high level quests... which, I believe, is going to happen in Update 14. That'll solve part of the healing problem, I hope.
    However, it was done in such a way with such massive diminishing returns that those who invest heavily in AC got horribly nerfed, and will suffer significantly more damage. Spending a month+ grinding out the top current AC gear will get you only a few additional percent of mitigation, not like before where it could give you so much more.

    It also is an indirect nerf to the Torc and Conc Op, since you'll always have some more AC that you didn't have before.

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