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  1. #1
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    Default Spellsinger/Charisma bard, Opinions?

    We need a unified thread, with everyone commenting about how will TR out hopefully can get enough attention to get a Dev to comment on what role they expect spellsingers to play. I've read comments from some people that Devs think bards shouldn't be able to play healer, the displacement "fix" and inability to get easy access to the healer fate, sure is a huge step towards that so what exactly now will a spellsinger bring that some other kind of bard couldn't? With charms been useless in epics the only cc is disco and single target hold is it really worth nerfing your dps to almost 0 just for those two spells and a bit more sp. All bards can fascinate so if ccs really needed that's an option, so what use is a capped spellsinger other than a buffbot?

    If they won't add something new spell-wise to make charisma worth using, how about removing charm ward on easier epics? Would give an AOE CC option at least. Thoughts anyone?

  2. #2
    Community Member Emili's Avatar
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    They be out-doing the Druid... well when the druid dc's before ya enter.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Emili View Post

    They be out-doing the Druid... well when the druid dc's before ya enter.

    Lol I think theres epic scaling now on normal, so most classes should be able to manage epic normal, and notice that you have aload of epic gear like the epie and like, I'm thinking more fresh 20 bard, 600 HP on a first life bard is that possible? Did you use charm, is it useable on epic normals?

  4. #4
    Halfling Hero phalaeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by idle1 View Post
    600 HP on a first life bard is that possible?
    With Epic levels and ED, my non TR'ed 32 pt Halfling Bard will sit at 600HP. Or at least she will on Lama.
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  5. #5
    Community Member Sgt_Hart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by idle1 View Post
    We need a unified thread, with everyone commenting about how will TR out hopefully can get enough attention to get a Dev to comment on what role they expect spellsingers to play. I've read comments from some people that Devs think bards shouldn't be able to play healer, the displacement "fix" and inability to get easy access to the healer fate, sure is a huge step towards that so what exactly now will a spellsinger bring that some other kind of bard couldn't? With charms been useless in epics the only cc is disco and single target hold is it really worth nerfing your dps to almost 0 just for those two spells and a bit more sp. All bards can fascinate so if ccs really needed that's an option, so what use is a capped spellsinger other than a buffbot?
    Generally: I think you need to wait til the enhancement pass to see Spellsingers shine(Along with all those other hated classes, like FVS, clr, Ect, that all only have 2 pre tiers).

    My helf AA/SS has held up remarkably well on the beta, and I stress, he's a half-cocked alt with "Uhh, I found it in a dumpster?" Gear overall.

    Mind you, in the closed beta, AA buffs were SNAFU as well. So that was no benefit besides making arrows.

    Quote Originally Posted by Emili View Post

    They be out-doing the Druid... well when the druid dc's before ya enter.
    the sheer amount of things on your screen scares me..
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  6. #6
    Community Member threefeetunder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by idle1 View Post
    Lol I think theres epic scaling now on normal, so most classes should be able to manage epic normal, and notice that you have aload of epic gear like the epie and like, I'm thinking more fresh 20 bard, 600 HP on a first life bard is that possible? Did you use charm, is it useable on epic normals?
    I'm sitting at 713 hp on my lvl 25 first life pure bard on lama right now With inspire excellence con, sup false life on random loot, epic levels, new items and so on it's really not that hard. I could probably push to 800 if I was really dedicated to

  7. #7
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by idle1 View Post
    We need a unified thread, with everyone commenting about how will TR out hopefully can get enough attention to get a Dev to comment on what role they expect spellsingers to play. I've read comments from some people that Devs think bards shouldn't be able to play healer, the displacement "fix" and inability to get easy access to the healer fate, sure is a huge step towards that so what exactly now will a spellsinger bring that some other kind of bard couldn't? With charms been useless in epics the only cc is disco and single target hold is it really worth nerfing your dps to almost 0 just for those two spells and a bit more sp. All bards can fascinate so if ccs really needed that's an option, so what use is a capped spellsinger other than a buffbot?

    If they won't add something new spell-wise to make charisma worth using, how about removing charm ward on easier epics? Would give an AOE CC option at least. Thoughts anyone?
    The common (mis)conception is that spellsinger = maxed cha with little to no melee viability other than using those weapons which allow cha for to-hit bonus. Ive built a couple combat spellsingers, putting points into str, and I basically DPS or CC depending on what is needed. Having a metalline flametouched iron weapon of improved destruction is a good option for raids.

    Bards should be able to play a healer and that option should still exist, but its not like spellsingers are just /autofail if they dont go that route. Mana regen over time is huge. Spell DCs amped up and mana costs reduced is big.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by idle1 View Post
    Lol I think theres epic scaling now on normal, so most classes should be able to manage epic normal, and notice that you have aload of epic gear like the epie and like, I'm thinking more fresh 20 bard, 600 HP on a first life bard is that possible? Did you use charm, is it useable on epic normals?
    My level 20 1st life bard with no toughness has 565 hps - so yeah, 600 is very possible.
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  9. #9
    Community Member Jaid314's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt_Hart View Post
    the sheer amount of things on your screen scares me..
    that isn't that much. i'd say a typical first life bard with only decent gear, not having farmed a ton of special clickies or anything, can easily have 12 bars. and that's with only 2-3 melee sets.

    make it a bard that carries a few more gear swaps, and has a few more clickies... maybe split up a few scrolls so you have a separate clicky for each version of the spell on them (i think that's possible)... i could see 19 bars pretty easy.

  10. #10
    Community Member Shade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by idle1 View Post
    Lol I think theres epic scaling now on normal, so most classes should be able to manage epic normal, and notice that you have aload of epic gear like the epie and like, I'm thinking more fresh 20 bard, 600 HP on a first life bard is that possible? Did you use charm, is it useable on epic normals?
    heh.

    Any low hp class can now reach 1k+.

    High hp classes can reach 1400-1600+

    My bbn for example was at 1400 raidbuffed, and he's a pure dps build, not hp build.

  11. #11
    Community Member NovaNZ's Avatar
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    Hail.

    I'm not one to usually raise the amp Shade but would u be so good to provide a (off-the-cuff) breakdown of 1k+ HP pure bard lvl 25.

    Tx
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by NovaNZ View Post
    Hail.

    I'm not one to usually raise the amp Shade but would u be so good to provide a (off-the-cuff) breakdown of 1k+ HP pure bard lvl 25.

    Tx
    Seconded.
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  13. #13
    Community Member Emili's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by idle1 View Post
    Lol I think theres epic scaling now on normal, so most classes should be able to manage epic normal, and notice that you have aload of epic gear like the epie and like, I'm thinking more fresh 20 bard, 600 HP on a first life bard is that possible? Did you use charm, is it useable on epic normals?
    Well of course I was posting it as a joke... but to be honest I had duo'd - with a hireling that quest on hard and elite on beta also. (the main reason you want a hireling be for a long casted DW) EE quests are very resource intensive on a bard attempting alone, but can be done.

    Is funny... I can use charms (as in the spell) yes, on normal is ok ... dances land of course along with stunnings and such, I've not used an actual charm spell in some time, but I must say in short groups I've surprised people by using a song... I'm not speaking just fascinate here but been told many a time by people they've never seen a bard "use it before" ... Mass suggestion (the song) has an unbelieveable results.

    Last edited by Emili; 06-29-2012 at 08:46 PM.
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  14. #14
    Community Member Blank_Zero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt_Hart View Post
    the sheer amount of things on your screen scares me..
    You should see mine then
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  15. #15
    Community Member Nitesco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emili View Post
    Mass suggestion (the song) has an unbelieveable results.
    Does it use the Perform skill to determine the DC, or Charisma modifier?

  16. #16
    Community Member Ivan_Milic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitesco View Post
    Does it use the Perform skill to determine the DC, or Charisma modifier?
    Songs use perform skill.

  17. #17
    Community Member darkovac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan_Milic View Post
    Songs use perform skill.
    It is not a case for every song.

    Mass Suggestion Song:
    Saving Throw: Will negates, 10 + ½ bard level + Cha modifier

    Check:
    http://ddowiki.com/page/Mass_Suggestion_%28song%29
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  18. #18
    Community Member Nitesco's Avatar
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    Yep thought so, thanks. So basically useless on a Warchanter. I knew there was a reason I don't keep Mass Suggestion or Song of Freedom on my bar.

  19. #19
    Community Member Maugrim101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NovaNZ View Post
    Hail.

    I'm not one to usually raise the amp Shade but would u be so good to provide a (off-the-cuff) breakdown of 1k+ HP pure bard lvl 25.

    Tx
    That would involve math
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  20. #20
    Community Member ZeebaNeighba's Avatar
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    I had a spellsinger who could heal very well. I got about 250 on cure crits, 140 on mass CLW and about 180 on mass CMW, and 192 on heal scrolls. I had about 1500 SP, with all the regen it would be more like 2500-3000 in a long quest like VoD or the Shavarath flagging quests. So I'm sure they can do fine as a healer, although all this was before the update. Now bards have to throw on an item to heal, limiting their other roles a bit, and it doesn't help that the most effective and easiest to acquire devotion equipment are mainly weapons.

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