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  1. #21
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    Default HP v PRR which helps more

    I suspect for those toons with no PRR, then I'd say HPs

  2. #22
    The Hatchery sirgog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by donblas View Post
    I suspect for those toons with no PRR, then I'd say HPs
    These guidelines are still useful for, say, a rogue with 600hp and 0 PRR that's comparing the merits of a second Toughness (27hp) to Two-Weapon Defense (5 PRR), although rogues will likely take neither.

    In this case it's pretty clear that the Toughness feat is the way to go if you were to commit to taking one of those two. But if TWD was changed to 8 or 10 PRR, it would be appealing.
    I don't have a zerging problem.

    I'm zerging. That's YOUR problem.

  3. #23
    Community Member Vellrad's Avatar
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    Where can we find sources of PRR?
    The only thing I saw was armor proficiencies, which is max base attack bonus +6 (so max 29).
    And yet, you're talkinga about 70s and more.
    Is there any place where there are formulas etc for game rules changes?

  4. #24

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    Look here: http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Relea...fficial#Combat
    and do a search-find for Physical Resistance.

    Feats:
    Two Weapon Defense +5
    Shield Mastery and Improved Shield Mastery, up to +15
    Ultimate Mountain Stance +15

    Enhancements:
    Defender of Siberys III: up to +40
    Stalwart Defender III: up to +40

    Items:
    Mentioned but not specified. +??

    31 Heavy armor
    40 either prestige class
    15 Shield mastery, Improved Shield Mastery and a tower shield
    -----
    86 current maximum

    PRR(81) = 36% resistance against blunt, slash, and piecing damages.

  5. #25
    Community Member Vellrad's Avatar
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    Well, this link is not mentioning any numbers changes in expansion and also is not explaining anything, except briefest possible introduction to changes

    And, AFAIK, max base attack bonus achievable in game is 23, as only 1st, 3rd and 5th commoner levels give BAB increase, so max PRR from armor is +29

  6. #26
    Community Member Wraith_Sarevok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vellrad View Post
    And, AFAIK, max base attack bonus achievable in game is 23, as only 1st, 3rd and 5th commoner levels give BAB increase, so max PRR from armor is +29
    Wrong.

    You can hit BAB 25 with temporary buffs like Divine Power and Madstone Rage, as those actually grant you full 1-to-1 progression regardless of your build.
    Khyber: Iqus Tres (Half-Orc Barbarian 20 / Epic 5 / Legendary Dreadnought 5), Ixupi (Drow Sorcerer 20), Outlake (Warforged 7 Monk-in-progress), Petroglyph (Warforged Artificer 16)

  7. #27
    Community Member fullpozzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BossOfEarth View Post
    Look here: http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Relea...fficial#Combat
    and do a search-find for Physical Resistance.

    Feats:
    Two Weapon Defense +5
    Shield Mastery and Improved Shield Mastery, up to +15
    Ultimate Mountain Stance +15

    Enhancements:
    Defender of Siberys III: up to +40
    Stalwart Defender III: up to +40

    Items:
    Mentioned but not specified. +??

    31 Heavy armor
    40 either prestige class
    15 Shield mastery, Improved Shield Mastery and a tower shield
    -----
    86 current maximum

    PRR(81) = 36% resistance against blunt, slash, and piecing damages.
    u forgot destines allow for higher prr and currently defenders are only get 20 not 40

    10 base heed no pain(unyeilding sentinal)
    20 dos stance
    29 eRedscale plate
    20 improved combat expertise
    20 tower shield
    -----
    99

  8. #28
    2015 DDO Players Council B0ltdrag0n's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith_Sarevok View Post
    You don't need any math to figure this out... it's common sense.

    Every point of damage you don't take is a point of damage that you don't have to heal. So it's like virtual HP.

    Obviously, in a game where raid bosses deal upwards of 160+ damage and your average endgame monster deals 80+ damage, a %-based damage resistance is going to be worth MUCH more than measly static HP boosts. I mean why do you think people keep constantly telling me that 9/- DR is worthless?
    People telling you that are wrong. 9/- is hardly worthless To get the same benifit from PRR there is a combination of factors involved buy essentially that 9/- is applied first to the damage meaning saying you had a 'average' PRR of 50that gave you ~25% incoming damage.

    For the PRR to help as much as the dr 9 you would need to be taking 45 damage a hit from a monster as 45 -9 =36
    and 36 * .25 = 9 damage reduced per swing.

    For the PRR to help you as much if you didn't have that DR 9 at all you would need a value of almost 150 PRR to get that reduction of 18 total.

    Now for higher damage swings let us say 100 per hit.
    Dr 9 by itsself 91 per swing
    PRR 50 by itsself 75 damage
    DR 9 + PRR 50 = 68.25 damage
    PRR 150 = 50 damage per swing
    PRR 150 + DR 9 = 45.5

    In fact to make that 9 meaningless you would need to be taking a hit so far in excess of maximum hp totals that the calculation is silly to even type.



    So high PRR comes 1st. High HP comes 2nd. You want both to be a great tank.
    Actually order of of priority is still debatable. 50% incoming reduction is around 150 PRR, if I am calculating those logarithms correctly. And as said that applied only to first number melee damage thus order of usefulness is actually probably more accurately put as Saves + HP then PRR then, the easier to obtain values of AC + dodge + concealment + incorporeal at all about the same usefulness.
    Last edited by B0ltdrag0n; 07-07-2012 at 06:39 AM.
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  9. #29
    Community Member MeatSheild's Avatar
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    nm

  10. #30
    Community Member nivarch's Avatar
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    Saves > *

    That's even more important now that cometfall is everywhere.

    Then a mix of HP and PRR. I'd say, reach sufficient HP (550 or 600) to survive a big spell in EE before you really work on PRR, but it's not that simple since HP and PRR do not conflit for gear slots, but for epic AP or feats.

    And when considering PRR and SP economy, remember that even with 75PRR you'll still take big hits that will put you down to 20%HP, that where your healer will blow a quickened heal instead of a heal scroll, and it costs SP. Having a high enough health buffer to prevent emergencies is important.

  11. #31
    Community Member CrankVulcan's Avatar
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    Ok so I'm about to build a tank type toon. He will either have 1000hp and (35)PRR or he will have 900hp and (55)PRR. Which would be better?

    In fact I've actually considered dropping Shield Mastery altogether and lowering my Resistance by even more. On an Arcane caster it costs 3 feats to get (10)PRR. Seems like a huge waste to me. Very unfortunate because Shield Mastery used to be very useful.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith_Sarevok View Post
    You can hit BAB 25 with temporary buffs like Divine Power and Madstone Rage, as those actually grant you full 1-to-1 progression regardless of your build.
    NEW UPDATE
    This is how it is working in game at the current time. Some would argue that the max bab should be 23 at that level due to the system. So there are questions to put to the issue, curious if it is in fact working as intended or some bug that has yet to be fixed.

    ----------Ignore below, historical purposes only
    Incorrect, you can increase your bab to your character level, thus emulating a 1/1 bab class with Divine Power or Madstone, but these are limited by your character level and your total CLASS level, which is still just 20, not 25. Then you add the +3 for Epic levels. Total, 23 bab.
    ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by CrankVulcan View Post
    Ok so I'm about to build a tank type toon. He will either have 1000hp and (35)PRR or he will have 900hp and (55)PRR. Which would be better?
    From 35 to 55 PRR you gain ~10% dmg reduction. 900 hp is 10% less than 1000 hp. So they are about even in general terms. More specifically, 1k hp helps you in that it blocks universal dmg for 100 hp more than if you had 900 hp. Where as reducing weapon dmg by 10% for each hit, could over time block more total dmg than the 100 hp would, depending on what you fight.

    Basically, its a moot point, both are about even.


    The harder something hits you, and the higher your PRR, the better you come out. PRR has less impact on things that do little dmg per hit, regardless of how high your PRR is. Notice I say less... not little or no, just less of an impact.

    Also take note that PRR is more useful against enemies that hit you several times, the higher your AC or dodge the less impact PRR has on your total dmg taken. Having a high ac doesn't mean you shouldn't have PRR, im just saying PRR is more useful to those that have lower AC or dodge and may be hit often.

    Lastly, PRR only reduces the weapon dmg hit, not the additional dmg from elemental weapons, alignment weapons, etc. And PRR will never reduce a high value hit to 0, only lessen it. Low value hits, like single digits with a high PRR may be reduced to 0 or close to it due to rounding.

    http://ddowiki.com/page/Physical_Resistance_Rating
    Last edited by Lyacryma; 08-02-2012 at 09:32 PM.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lyacryma View Post
    Max Base Attack is correct, for a 1/1 bab, you get 20 bab for 20 levels and +3 for the 5 epic levels, for a total of 23.

    However your max PRR calculation is wrong, 23 bab * 6 PRR per = 138 PRR total gained from heavy armor.

    http://ddowiki.com/page/Physical_Resistance_Rating
    It's BAB + 6, not BAB*6. So it's 29 for BAB 23.



    Quote Originally Posted by Lyacryma View Post
    Incorrect, you can increase your bab to your character level, thus emulating a 1/1 bab class with Divine Power or Madstone, but these are limited by your character level and your total CLASS level, which is still just 20, not 25. Then you add the +3 for Epic levels. Total, 23 bab.
    I'm not 100% sure, but I seem to recall getting BAB 23 on my level 20+3 favored soul using Divine Power. It also seemed to affect PRR like regular BAB.

    Someone better check in game, though, as I'm not 100% sure.
    It's definitely an N-word.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dandonk View Post
    It's BAB + 6, not BAB*6. So it's 29 for BAB 23.
    Whoops, thanks lol, ill fix that.

  15. #35
    Community Member Wraith_Sarevok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lyacryma View Post
    Incorrect, you can increase your bab to your character level, thus emulating a 1/1 bab class with Divine Power or Madstone, but these are limited by your character level and your total CLASS level, which is still just 20, not 25. Then you add the +3 for Epic levels. Total, 23 bab.
    No you're incorrect.

    I actually used the buff in-game. BAB jumps from +23 to +25 and I gain something like 2 PRR on character sheet.
    Khyber: Iqus Tres (Half-Orc Barbarian 20 / Epic 5 / Legendary Dreadnought 5), Ixupi (Drow Sorcerer 20), Outlake (Warforged 7 Monk-in-progress), Petroglyph (Warforged Artificer 16)

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith_Sarevok View Post
    No you're incorrect.

    I actually used the buff in-game. BAB jumps from +23 to +25 and I gain something like 2 PRR on character sheet.
    I just checked this before downtime. The above is true. Divine Power does increase BAB to equal total level, in my case 23 on my 20+3 fvs. And this also increases PRR in the expected fashion.

    Whether this is WAI or not, I have no clue. But it currently works this way.
    It's definitely an N-word.

  17. #37
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    i see, i will update that is above so i dont confuse anyone then.

    thanks


    I suspect now its become rather important for everyone, not just those classes that normally use those abilities, above 20 to be using something that emulates the increase in bab. At least for anyone having issues hitting things in epic content, its something to look at.
    Last edited by Lyacryma; 08-02-2012 at 09:35 PM.

  18. #38
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    Its all about having a mix of defences that are good but not maxed.

    I find the survivability of earth stance dark monks using GMOF with the new set to be exceptionally good now.

    - Close to 20% dodge
    - AC around 80 - 90 (50% at lvl prot)
    - Shadow fade 25% incorporal
    - I get around 45PRR in CE and earth stance: 25%+ dmg reduction (dreadnought twist)
    - 25% less dmg from all sorces about half the time from set
    - Evation + imp evation
    - Araund 700 hp
    - No fail on 1 fort save with GMOF destiny.
    - Immunity to knockdown and slippery surfaces
    - Great heal amp.

    Discarding blur and the set bonus you mitigate about 77,5% of all physical incoming dmg In addition to virtual immunity to anything with a save throw i cant see many builds beating that for survivability.

    You also get a ton of CC from GMOF ofc.

  19. #39
    Community Member Wraith_Sarevok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xezno View Post
    - I get around 45PRR in CE and earth stance: 25%+ dmg reduction (dreadnought twist)
    Whoa you can't twist that. It's an innate if I remember correctly.
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  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith_Sarevok View Post
    Whoa you can't twist that. It's an innate if I remember correctly.
    Improved combat expertice is a lvl 2 twist that grants 20PRR in CE stance.

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