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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Genasi View Post
    So, I tested them out on a paladin and barbarian, and because the Draconic Incarnation abilities (and the Magister Arcane Tempest as well) are granted through feats and are not tied to any particular class or casting system, they actually DO use character levels for their damage dice calcs. Not specific caster levels such as Sorcerer/Wizard only. Therefore, although they'll lack the equipment- and enhancement-granted spellpower bonuses of a dedicated caster, even melee characters can get some use out of these abilities. Needless to say, this is something the tooltips should be clearer about.

    Somewhat disappointingly (from a certain perspective), this does mean that caster level increases don't actually affect the Draconic active abilities. But they're certainly still improvable by spellpower from gear, enhancements, etc.
    In no way you can make this in genasi? Having CL affect the dices on the damage enhanc from the destiny would give us more room for improvements.

    I'm asking because: Why do we have all those caster level increases then? They feel pretty much useless to me

    They won't help the destiny's abilities, the spells we have are all capped at 20 (any news on this btw? can you cap them at 30 for the expansion?) without any significant MCL increase and they are only usefull for buffs like haste and rage but this is something really not-necessary-but-still-bit-nice.

  2. #62
    Developer Genasi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tid12 View Post
    In no way you can make this in genasi? Having CL affect the dices on the damage enhanc from the destiny would give us more room for improvements.
    I'll be looking into it. Ideally I'd like to see it using character level instead of class level for damage dice (which is fortunately already the case), and also adding caster level bonuses as applicable from gear or enhancements, or indeed the Destiny itself. There is some slight weirdness right now with how all this is calculated that we're investigating to see what we can do.

  3. #63

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    Shouldn't you be on a boat?

  4. #64
    Community Member Seventoe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Genasi View Post
    I'll be looking into it. Ideally I'd like to see it using character level instead of class level for damage dice (which is fortunately already the case), and also adding caster level bonuses as applicable from gear or enhancements, or indeed the Destiny itself. There is some slight weirdness right now with how all this is calculated that we're investigating to see what we can do.
    Wonderful! Thank you!
    Sadcat // Funn // Algorithm // others
    The Order of Cygnus - Sarlona

  5. #65
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    could you use both?

    as in a whichever is higher ? .... cause that would be good

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Genasi View Post
    I'll be looking into it. Ideally I'd like to see it using character level instead of class level for damage dice (which is fortunately already the case), and also adding caster level bonuses as applicable from gear or enhancements, or indeed the Destiny itself. There is some slight weirdness right now with how all this is calculated that we're investigating to see what we can do.
    Alright. Hope you can make it in, having those CL work on something like ED abilities would be really fun. And would give us a reason to equip items with CL increases.

    And about the capped spells we have on live now? Can you cap them at a higher caster level? Like 30?

  7. #67
    Community Member Vazok1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Genasi View Post
    I'll be looking into it. Ideally I'd like to see it using character level instead of class level for damage dice (which is fortunately already the case), and also adding caster level bonuses as applicable from gear or enhancements, or indeed the Destiny itself. There is some slight weirdness right now with how all this is calculated that we're investigating to see what we can do.
    Its probably not possible right now but wouldn't it be better to just have it chose whichever is higher for the CL? caster or character
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  8. #68
    Community Member Shade's Avatar
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    Arrow Report

    Report for post 6/15 patch:

    General:
    The Good:
    - New icons for many abilities in this tree, and overall imo they look better.
    - Descriptions upgraded to include discussed DC.
    - Previously discussed upgraded implemented:
    --- Dragon Breath now 5d6 per cl
    --- Daunting Roar duration upgraded: Lists 15 seconds, tho actual tests showed only 12.
    --- Energy Vortex duration upgraded: Now lasts 45 seconds.

    The Bad:
    - No new icons for what really mattered:
    --- Buff icons. EG: Energy Sheathe, still uses same copy and paste icon as related energy resist, making it tough to distinguise from very commonly used buffs
    --- Debuff icons: Daunting Roar uses same generic fear icon as every other fear, despite functioning quite a bit differently.
    - Only a few bug fixes. Nearly all previously reported bugs still exist. I'll go into detail on a few:

    Energy Burst:
    - STILL does same damage on rank 1 as rank2/3. This was reported in beta 1.. Any eta on getting this one fixed Genasi?
    - Save DC not being calculated correctly still. Seems to be about 8 points lower then it should be. Possibly ignoring certain bonuses to charisma, epic levels, or other things.

    Note: Caster level is functioning better then you expected still Genasi. It accepts:
    - Savant
    - Aracne Augmentation IX
    - ED +CL bonus (Dragon spell knowledge)
    CL should be:
    20 Heroic level
    5 Epic level
    +5 ED bonus =30
    +6 Savant = 36
    +2 Arcane Aug = 38
    +3 Dragon knowledege = 41
    +3 Epic Abishai Set: = 44
    Actaul CL: 36
    Not applying:
    5 epic levels (Not a big deal, essentially this would mean we would be getting a free +10 instead of +5 here, and the damage is fine without the 5)
    +3 Epic Abishai Set (Spell not correctly flaged as evocation)

    Dragonhide (Also Impregnable mind from Magister):
    - Still failing saves on a roll of 1. Infact 1s still don't display any +roll, and just auto fail. Tested vs: Various spellwards in "into the rift" and poison traps on elite redfang.
    Screenshot.

    Go out with a bang:
    -Now requires under 50% health.
    -Save DC not being calculated right. Same as eburst i think, misssing ~8 points.
    -Damage still severely broken. (Does way less damage that niacs cold ray does - a 2 sp sla... see screenshot - tho note I think the niacs got a +50% helpless bonus)
    -Damage still rarely hits anything and has a big delay. Not using Eburst animation as discussed.

    Comment:
    This ability is so incredibly weak it really feels like a too harsh penalty to be forced to take it to rank 3 if we want rank 3 eburst (which we all do obviously, its very nice). Would be nice if the prereq could be removed entirely. It doesnt seem related, they dont work well together or mesh in any way anyways. Eburst is essentially better in all situations as is, so youd just replace this button with it.

    Could later rethink it to work differently and be desirable, but given the proximity to release, a quick non prereq change could be for the best until that can be done.

    And if we do want full eburst/vortex and our epic moment - It forces us down one path, where all sorc builds will be the same 100% cookie cutter, due to AP cost/progression. Don't think thats ideal.

    Energy Sheath:
    -No longer forces you into one element. Thankyou
    -Has new ability icon. Nice , but the buff icon itself is more important to be unique.

    Spell augmentation:
    -No changes. Increased chance would be nice.

    Dragon Breath:
    - Descript update to reflect new damage. Uses CL now, but not correctly:
    Casting at CL33, while Eburst casts at CL36.. So its likely missing the draconic spell knowledge boost (perhaps not internally flagged as a ice spell)
    -Save DC not being calculated right. Same as eburst i think, misssing ~8 points.
    - Same very very poor range. Screenshot - graphic directly hits red fang, no damage.
    Screenshot 2 : Somehow I managed to get the bonus sonic damage to proc (though oddly half the amount i normally do), yet not do any ice damage. Obviously in such a low lvl quest this ability should 1 shot enemies, yet it only tickled him.
    - Damage is incorrect. It's doing the exact same damage as rank 1 of eburst (3d6 per cl, not 5d6) (minus the 3 caster lvls)

    Draconic Breath Augmentation:
    - Newly upgraded. Now a 15% chance, instead of "on a failed save" Thats perhaps a bit better, tho with only 5 uses per rest and the long 1min cd, 15% means your not likely to see it much =/ Suggest upping to 50%.

    - I'll be honest and thought about not reporting this one as I like it: This proc'd on "go out with a bang". IMO its not too overpowered to allow this to proc on all ED abilities. Though maybe not spells. Did not see it proc on spells anyways, so that is perhaps how its working atm.

    Comments on it:
    Don't feel like the choices are balanced against each other, tho due to the extreme rarely of getting them i couldnt test them all:
    --- Sleep - (tested this one, by accident) Very nice, as it means your enemy is helpless, and after that big brst fromthe breath, chances are with +50% , your next nuke will end them.
    --- Slow - Meh, listed a short duration.. Not worth it. Unless it works on bosses and has a VASTLY upgraded duration (say 2min), no one would select this.
    --- Paralyze: Depends if its paralyze like payralyzer (not helpless) or paralyze like hold monster (helpless), if its the latter, then it could be a good choice.
    ---Feat: Meh, do not want.

    Energy Vortex:
    -45s duration is very nice. If it wasn't heavily bugged, id want this now.
    -HEAVILY broken.
    -Damage extremely poor, seems to be ignoring nearly all of my spell power. Screenshot. (~400 on a failed save, should be in the ~800 range with my spellpower, was doing 200 or less on everything that wasnt a squirel due to broken DC)
    -Save DC definetely not being calculated at all right. Everything always saved in the kings forest. I stood next to a drow ranger for the fuull 45 seconds, he took no damage. I get this is a poor target, but my basic ottilukes lands on those 75% of the time. (DC48 at the time, this abilitys DC should be in the low 50s with my charisma. ) And the same results on caster mobs iwth low reflex, salways saves. Id wager the DC is functioning at the base DC20.

    Epic Moment:
    - Does not feel very epic. See screenshot (Soloing new epic elite, fairly challenging in spinner of shadows after patch):
    - Heals for about 15-20 every 1-2 seconds.. Not enogh to have any impact on actaully keeping me alive in any tough content. (i had ~160% healing amp at the time of ss)
    - DR100/epic i nice.. Though as you can see, real epic bosses can still crush you trhough it. (Related: A CR54 Demonic Demon infused with the powers of the lords of dust should bypass DR/Epic imo)
    - Still does not provide +200 resistances, only +100.
    -No intim effect that i saw.

    - Took me 2 casts (4+ mins) of fury to power it. IMO i can spam spells extremely fast compared to most, so its probably ok.

    - I still died when i used it. I actaully pretty much always die when i use this, since I use it when ii think im gona die, and well it doesnt provide enough "invulnerability" to be truely invulnerable.

    Needs an upgrade to worthy of the 2 AP and tier 6 status it has imo. Far weaker then the melee epic moments, and maybe on par with the rather poor magister one.

    Suggest:
    -Duration up to 30 seconds. (actaully ss shows both a 25s and a 15 s duration remaining, not sure whats up with that, from what I could tell it only lasted 20s)
    -Healing up to 100 per 2 seconds (base, modified by amp)
    -DR up to 150 DR/- or 200/Epic, and make more crazy strong epic bosses bypass DR epic please, Silly monks shouldnt be the best tanks in the game.
    -Add universal damage shield 25% (to help versus non melee, non energy damage)
    - Provide +50 spell power while active, so its more fun to use it offensively, instead of a "oh **** moment, that generally results in you still dying anyways cuz your a squishy sorc")
    - Instead of the probably hard-to-code auto intim, just provide +100 intim skill while active. Would be risky to use this in certain raids with an auto intim anyways.

    Screenshot direct links:
    http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/9...breathfail.jpg
    http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/1...damagebrok.jpg
    http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/5...tnotsoepic.jpg
    http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/8146/fortfailure.jpg
    http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/6...bangbugged.jpg
    http://img585.imageshack.us/img585/1...vulnerable.jpg
    http://img546.imageshack.us/img546/6...cbutnocold.jpg
    Last edited by Shade; 06-17-2012 at 08:26 AM.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
    Report for post 6/15 patch:
    Thanks for posting this. I can't play too much and can't test myself. Having some feedback from someone experienced is really good.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post

    The Bad:
    Go out with a bang:
    -Now requires under 50% health.
    -Save DC not being calculated right. Same as eburst i think, misssing ~8 points.
    -Damage still severely broken. (Does way less damage that niacs cold ray does - a 2 sp sla... see screenshot - tho note I think the niacs got a +50% helpless bonus)
    -Damage still rarely hits anything and has a big delay. Not using Eburst animation as discussed.
    Always hated the <50% to activate something.


    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
    Comment:
    This ability is so incredibly weak it really feels like a too harsh penalty to be forced to take it to rank 3 if we want rank 3 eburst (which we all do obviously, its very nice). Would be nice if the prereq could be removed entirely.
    This. Or at least make it 1 rank prerequisite.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
    Epic Moment:

    Suggest:
    -Duration up to 30 seconds. (actaully ss shows both a 25s and a 15 s duration remaining, not sure whats up with that, from what I could tell it only lasted 20s)
    -Healing up to 100 per 2 seconds (base, modified by amp)
    -DR up to 150 DR/- or 200/Epic, and make more crazy strong epic bosses bypass DR epic please, Silly monks shouldnt be the best tanks in the game.
    -Add universal damage shield 25% (to help versus non melee, non energy damage)
    - Provide +50 spell power while active, so its more fun to use it offensively, instead of a "oh **** moment, that generally results in you still dying anyways cuz your a squishy sorc")
    - Instead of the probably hard-to-code auto intim, just provide +100 intim skill while active. Would be risky to use this in certain raids with an auto intim anyways.
    100 per 2 seconds pre-heal amp seems a bit too much. However, having seen that to use this you need 4+ min time, it might not be to OP. /signed with 150/Epic.


    EDIT: Genasi, amazing work on Energy stealth: Electric. It's super cool!
    Last edited by Tid12; 06-18-2012 at 08:52 AM.

  10. #70
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    The tier 4 enhancement white dragon spell knowledge (the cold version) does not appear to be working properly. I had a 30 minute cold resist with 1 point in this enhancement, and putting 2 more points into it did not affect my cold resist duration at all. However, when I then leveled up the destiny itself, my cold resist duration went up to 31 minutes. Not sure if it is relevant, but my sorc is an ice savant.

  11. #71
    Community Member Auran82's Avatar
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    Regarding 'Go out with a bang' maybe make it only require 1ap for all above pre-requisites, make tier 2 and 3 add extra effects to make them worthwhile options in their own right, like maybe a Bang/diplo/invis at tier 1, increase bang at tier 2, and add a heal over time at tier 3 (similar to the epic moment) because you are using this at < 50% health after all.

    I'm not a huge fan of all the long cooldown abilities, most of the time I found that I wanted to save them until they would be really good, which then proceeded to never happen, so I just kept nuking as per normal.

    Letting us choose what we wanted for the energy sheathe is nice too, as it gives us the option of picking up a fire one and freeing up a spell slot previously used for cold/fire shield.

    I personally found the tier 1 abilities were pretty nice for twisting, but less so for a caster themselves.

  12. #72
    Community Member Auran82's Avatar
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    Oh, one last thing, are the autogrants going to be changing at some point to have the first one be "+50 sp and +1 arcane caster level per level of the ED" and have other abilities for the other tiers?

  13. #73
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    Thanks. That fits with my recollections as well. So the spells we know definitely don't scale with caster level/max.
    caster level are:

    Niac's Biting Cold
    Eladar's Electric Surge
    Cone of Cold
    Electric Loop
    Shocking Grasp

    Anything else?
    Cyclonic Blast seems like it does not scale properly, either. And this spell has been bugged for a while, for example, it counts as a level 2 spell when used against a Mantle of Invulnerability.

  14. #74
    Community Member Jaid314's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by soulaeon View Post
    Cyclonic Blast seems like it does not scale properly, either. And this spell has been bugged for a while, for example, it counts as a level 2 spell when used against a Mantle of Invulnerability.
    so long as we're talking about that, sunburst is also bugged, and counts as blindness (a level 2 spell).

    but yeah, assuming the various sonic spells are air, sonic blast may not be scaling properly either, not 100% sure... has anyone actually even cared enough to test it?

  15. #75
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    So it is character level to damage instead of caster level? Happy days for me at least. Would be also happy if it used which ever is higher...if it would use only caster level then this ED would only be limited to sorcs and wizards.

    I'm seriously considering taking this for my FvS instead of the Exalted Angel one.

  16. #76
    Community Member Shade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valakai View Post
    So it is character level to damage instead of caster level? Happy days for me at least. Would be also happy if it used which ever is higher...if it would use only caster level then this ED would only be limited to sorcs and wizards.

    I'm seriously considering taking this for my FvS instead of the Exalted Angel one.
    Considering how broken this ED is, it's currently not useful to any class.

    Magister is far superior, for the simple reason it's far less bugged.

    Once/if bugfixed, they should be fairly balanced.

  17. #77
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    I've raised this point in the Magister thread, and I think it should also be said here because I did not really see any mention of it.
    Could we possibly have Arcane Prodigy or Arcane Initiate count towards the feat prerequisite for any of Precise Casting and Piercing Spellcraft? Or remove the prerequisite all together but increase the AP cost for each rank, or tie these two abilities so one must be taken to access another.
    A feat prerequisite is actually a far steeper cost for sorcerers than wizards, because most of us take past lives in order to make room for other feats like Metas.
    Otherwise, this tree is more balanced than Magister and I would not want to change much else. Each tier has something helpful, and it seems suited to fit different tastes.

  18. #78
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    Genasi, about the uncapped/raised MCL/CL on spells? Any news? We have spells capped at 15/20 that gains very little if nothing at all benefits from Epic destiny/Level 25/more CLs.


    Also, why is the colour of Genasi not yellow anymore?

  19. #79
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    (Bump)
    Quote Originally Posted by Tid12
    Genasi, about the uncapped/raised MCL/CL on spells? Any news? We have spells capped at 15/20 that gains very little if nothing at all benefits from Epic destiny/Level 25/more CLs.
    Can anyone else comment on this point? Draconic has a potential +9 additional spell levels, and it would be nice to know if they actually work as advertised, and if so, are there any spells not effected? Further, do they stack with the TOD or Abashi set, or spell augmentation?

  20. #80
    Community Member Zerkul's Avatar
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    Default Epic Sorcerer Damage Output is not Epic

    Some gameplay opinions on the Draconic destiny compared to magister and about the Sorcerer spell damage output. Please have a look.

    Best Regards,
    Zerkul.

    http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...41&postcount=1
    Guild Leader of "GODS - Guardians Of the Dragon Sanctuary" on Cannith --- My Characters: Zavarthak (20 Barbarian Frenzied/Ravager DPS - MAIN), Ryumajin (Warlock,), Leohands (Evocation FVS firstlife), Galvano (Paladin TWF). - If you like or find useful my posts, consider adding reputation.

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