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  1. #141
    Community Member Skavenaps's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeLoric View Post
    You have to be in light armor.
    cool, have you tested it or was stated on a dev post?

    thanks

  2. #142

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skavenaps View Post
    cool, have you tested it or was stated on a dev post?

    thanks
    Tested my kensai when he got tier 5 on this one did not get evasion wearing epic cav plate (medium) but did in epic marilith (now light)
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  3. #143
    Community Member Skavenaps's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeLoric View Post
    Tested my kensai when he got tier 5 on this one did not get evasion wearing epic cav plate (medium) but did in epic marilith (now light)
    thanks sir, a +1 for you.

  4. #144
    Community Member threefeetunder's Avatar
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    So i've been testing things out in this destiny, just a few observations

    -Shadow charges stack up to 9 (i suspect 3 tier 1, 6 tier 2 and 9 tier 3) instead of 7 at tier 3
    -Even if you have 9 charges, untouchable only stacks up to 7 dodge
    -shadow charges stayed on when changing instances, entering and leaving quests, and death (reset in taverns and shrines)
    -executioners strike instakill (or the extra damage on save anyways, my dex is terrible) pretty much triggered every time i used it, regardless of how many charges i had
    -madstone blocks shadow spear
    -shadow spear is only throwing 1 lance instead of 3 (and not blinding anything, but that's probably due to low DC)
    -being able to jump and move quickly while sneaking rocks
    -shadow training 4 (shadow walk clickie) is instantly removed from you the instant you cast it on yourself
    -shadow training 5 (ddoor clickie) is (to my surprise) actually a slightly different spell then ddoor. It needs a target to be cast (can't be cast in empty space, you need to have something selected, doesn't have to be an enemy mob, just as long as it shows up in your focus orb), and the door itself has a different look (looks like a portal). the rest is the same (transports you to entrance, stays around for 30 seconds).
    -shadow training 4 and 5 don't have a use limit (you can use them as often as you want)
    -ddoor spell version and ddoor clickie version stacked on top of each other looks awesome
    Last edited by threefeetunder; 06-20-2012 at 04:27 AM.

  5. #145
    Community Member sephiroth1084's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by karl_k0ch View Post
    Thanks for explaining this. So you come to the same conclusion as I: Currently, a rapier does less damage than a Khophesh. While more additional damage modifiers help the rapier more, it's still interesting to see how much they help. Consider Lighting Strike, Manslayer, and the Assassin III's Vorpal effect, which account for 9.15 + 5 + 5 = 19.15 damage per swing. With two Khopeshes, this becomes 35.04 damage with main, offhand and doublestrike. With two rapiers, this becomes 35.62 damage altogether, thus giving the rapier 0.58 extra damage, making this weapon choice still lag 2.3 points behind the khopesh.

    I'd really like to see a calculation as above where you can show that 4% double strike would grant more damage for the rapier, even under ideal situations. And then the question would be: Is that a bad thing that an ED/Class combination can outperform under ideal situations the usual TWF weapon choice, the khopesh. destiny4405 says that rapiers should always lag behind khopeshes, I think an alternative to the usual would be interesting.
    Khopesh costs a feat. If a weapon that doesn't, like the rapier, does more damage than the khopesh, why bother spending a feat on EWP? Non-exotic weapons should not be as good as weapons that require a feat spent, but bringing the two closer is reasonable. There's no reason for this to be changed to make rapiers better, or even equal. If you care that much about a 1% difference in DPS, then pick up a khopesh, but if not, you can spend that feat elsewhere and still be doing comparable DPS. That's as it should be.
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  6. #146
    The Hatchery karl_k0ch's Avatar
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    Interesting points, and I rest my case. You have convinced me that the current implementation of the double strike bonus is a great thing, which allows rapiers to come reasonably close to khopeshes.
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  7. #147
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    The epic moment of this destiny needs an overhaul. Compared to what the other destinies can do, this is actually feels underpowered, really much.

    I'd suggest a change to:

    Each time an enemy affected by your Dark Shrouding mark dies, you gain 1 charge. When you have accumulated 20 of these charges, you can expend them to enchant your melee and ranged attacks with shadowy energy. You deal an extra 15d6 evil damage with every strike, you generate 50% less aggro, the effective range of your melee attacks increases dramatically, and your ranged attacks have a 30% chance to explode, dealing 10d6 unholy damage to all enemies in a large radius around your target
    Last edited by Tid12; 08-11-2012 at 04:24 AM.

  8. #148
    Community Member soloist12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tid12 View Post
    The epic moment of this destiny needs an overhaul. Compared to what the other destinies can do, this is actually feels underpowered, really much.

    I'd suggest a change to:

    Each time an enemy affected by your Dark Shrouding mark dies, you gain 1 charge. When you have accumulated 20 of these charges, you can expend them to enchant your melee and ranged attacks with shadowy energy. You deal an extra 6d6 unholy damage AND an extra 6d6 holy damage with every strike, you generate 50% less aggro, the effective range of your melee attacks increases dramatically, and your ranged attacks have a 30% chance to explode, dealing 10d6 unholy damage to all enemies in a large radius around your target
    That and any time you use a portal to another area in a quest, it resets all your dark imbuement charges. An example would be the door at the bottom of the trap hall in Lords of Dust: clicking it takes you to another area in the quest, and doing so, you lose all your dark imbuement charges whether you had 1 or 19. A terrible quest for this is "The Portal Opens".

    "You deal an extra 2d6 unholy damage with every strike, the effective range of your melee attacks increases dramatically."

    - As a melee, extremely weak epic moment. 2d6 at end game? Lol. 10y melee attacks - don't notice it, and to be honest, don't need it.
    - This takes at minimum 20 kills with a 15 second cd ability (assassinating helps this a bit, but not for ranged).
    - Quests that teleport you to another area in the dungeon nuke all your imbuement charges
    - 2d6?????

  9. #149
    Community Member Moonsickle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by soloist12 View Post
    That and any time you use a portal to another area in a quest, it resets all your dark imbuement charges. An example would be the door at the bottom of the trap hall in Lords of Dust: clicking it takes you to another area in the quest, and doing so, you lose all your dark imbuement charges whether you had 1 or 19. A terrible quest for this is "The Portal Opens".

    "You deal an extra 2d6 unholy damage with every strike, the effective range of your melee attacks increases dramatically."

    - As a melee, extremely weak epic moment. 2d6 at end game? Lol. 10y melee attacks - don't notice it, and to be honest, don't need it.
    - This takes at minimum 20 kills with a 15 second cd ability (assassinating helps this a bit, but not for ranged).
    - Quests that teleport you to another area in the dungeon nuke all your imbuement charges
    - 2d6?????


    Think you missed the UNHOLY damage as in EVIL damage, which every Drow from The Underdark is Evil...

    so even if you 2d6 damage's effective range was the whole entire Underdark...

    think you'd be seeing a whole lot of "immune" spamming your screen from which the lag from it be so bad that it would crash your client and by the time you logged back in you'd see a stone with your name on it waiting for you



    I get the Shadow - Evil thing going on...


    but seems strange that in the quests from around level 16+, more than 75% of what you fight is evil-aligned to even have anything that does evil damage doesn't really scream out "WOW... that's so cool Unholy damage... YEAH BABY!!!"

    what quest has anything where an evil npc's DR can be broken by evil damage?





    NOTE: my only Shadowdancer experience is on the Live server... wasn't able to copy over to Lam from live






    Too bad Shadowdancer is still broken after Patch 2 on Live server...


    Lost Sneak Attack dice, still no Shadow Charges unless you need to put points into something actually expends a Shadow charge to get a counter???

    Passives with bonuses from Shadow Charges don't work as in Untouchable & Executioner's Strike



    which means who tested this Destiny... only people who saw Consume kills things... well maybe it kills things if they don't make their save... and went that path only???


    I'm at 21 points in Shadowdancer and see no reason to take any Tier 6 items and don't plan to [although if I knew how long shadow form was active I might reconsider this although with 1 minutes cooldown probaly just another 20 second clicky wasting charges better suit for Untouchable & Executioner's Strike]...
    only wish there was one more (W) clicky... so I had something to do while waiting to click the 2 Strikes again.

    Then again if Executioner's Strike had charges might not need to wait to click again.


    Another thing only see Shrouding Strike stating "at this tier you can hold 7 charges" where to do you get increase that to get to the 20 charges in Oncoming Darkness?


    Never saw any charges so didn't realize you could lose them portal-ling... which is awesome!



    .
    You know I had been using the Superior Sarcasm font exclusively but it seems in a unannounced hotfix they slipped in the Sovereign Sarcasm font... keep up the good work guys!

  10. #150
    Community Member brzytki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moonsickle View Post
    Think you missed the UNHOLY damage as in EVIL damage, which every Drow from The Underdark is Evil...

    so even if you 2d6 damage's effective range was the whole entire Underdark...

    think you'd be seeing a whole lot of "immune" spamming your screen from which the lag from it be so bad that it would crash your client and by the time you logged back in you'd see a stone with your name on it waiting for you



    I get the Shadow - Evil thing going on...


    but seems strange that in the quests from around level 16+, more than 75% of what you fight is evil-aligned to even have anything that does evil damage doesn't really scream out "WOW... that's so cool Unholy damage... YEAH BABY!!!"

    what quest has anything where an evil npc's DR can be broken by evil damage?





    NOTE: my only Shadowdancer experience is on the Live server... wasn't able to copy over to Lam from live






    Too bad Shadowdancer is still broken after Patch 2 on Live server...


    Lost Sneak Attack dice, still no Shadow Charges unless you need to put points into something actually expends a Shadow charge to get a counter???

    Passives with bonuses from Shadow Charges don't work as in Untouchable & Executioner's Strike



    which means who tested this Destiny... only people who saw Consume kills things... well maybe it kills things if they don't make their save... and went that path only???


    I'm at 21 points in Shadowdancer and see no reason to take any Tier 6 items and don't plan to [although if I knew how long shadow form was active I might reconsider this although with 1 minutes cooldown probaly just another 20 second clicky wasting charges better suit for Untouchable & Executioner's Strike]...
    only wish there was one more (W) clicky... so I had something to do while waiting to click the 2 Strikes again.

    Then again if Executioner's Strike had charges might not need to wait to click again.


    Another thing only see Shrouding Strike stating "at this tier you can hold 7 charges" where to do you get increase that to get to the 20 charges in Oncoming Darkness?


    Never saw any charges so didn't realize you could lose them portal-ling... which is awesome!



    .
    The evil damage from SD actually damages everything, it was the first thing people cried about in Beta regarding this ability so please stop saying we didn't test things. It was tested, even Genasi tested it specifically after the outcry.

    That of course doesn't change the fact that SD was in a lot better shape (actually working) in Beta 2/3 than now on live.

    Shadowform is permanent iirc.

    You shouldn't hate people for wanting Consume to work - imagine it had a spell pen check before...

    Charges for Epic Moment are on a separate counter and do not disappear when you use Shadow Charges for other abilities.
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  11. #151
    Community Member sephiroth1084's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moonsickle View Post
    Think you missed the UNHOLY damage as in EVIL damage, which every Drow from The Underdark is Evil...

    so even if you 2d6 damage's effective range was the whole entire Underdark...

    think you'd be seeing a whole lot of "immune" spamming your screen from which the lag from it be so bad that it would crash your client and by the time you logged back in you'd see a stone with your name on it waiting for you



    I get the Shadow - Evil thing going on...


    but seems strange that in the quests from around level 16+, more than 75% of what you fight is evil-aligned to even have anything that does evil damage doesn't really scream out "WOW... that's so cool Unholy damage... YEAH BABY!!!"

    what quest has anything where an evil npc's DR can be broken by evil damage?
    You should read more. The damage works on basically everything--evil creatures are not immune to it.


    I'm at 21 points in Shadowdancer and see no reason to take any Tier 6 items and don't plan to [although if I knew how long shadow form was active I might reconsider this although with 1 minutes cooldown probaly just another 20 second clicky wasting charges better suit for Untouchable & Executioner's Strike]...
    Shadow Form is a stance, like Wraith form is for Pale Masters. You spend one charge to enter the form, and you're in it until you turn it off or shrine. It even lasts through zoning into a quest (probably not WAI), so you can build up your shadow charges, go into Form, then go into the quest.


    Another thing only see Shrouding Strike stating "at this tier you can hold 7 charges" where to do you get increase that to get to the 20 charges in Oncoming Darkness?






    .
    Uses a separate counter, and the charges aren't expended for other abilities.
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  12. #152
    Community Member Moonsickle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rian View Post
    You MUST have an ability that USES shadow charges ACTIVELY, such as cloak of shadows. That's where they are stored, Cloak of Shadows, or Shadow Form will store the charges allowing you to benefit from passive abilities.


    /sarcasm off

    Thanks for responding

    /sarcasm on



    now back to your regularly scheduled program already in progress...



    so I have to waste 2 Destiny Points on a clicky I don't even want to store Shadow Charges...

    why in the hell doesn't Shrouding Strike store them??? It's what generates them so it should be able to store them?



    If I don't take the Consume path at Tier 3... I have to wait till Tier 6 and actually have to take Shadow Form so that if I took Shadow Lance at tier 1 [which I didn't take], Untouchable at Tier 5, and Executioner's Strike at Tier 5... just so that all would get their passive Shadow Charge bonuses [which is the actual reason for taking Untouchable & Executioner's Strike]


    how awesomely stupid!!!!


    What allows you to store more than 7 after 3 points in Shrouding Strike? nothing states how to ever get to holding 20 and is 20 the maximum held?


    Then the losing Charges issue... [censored]


    but then again I should have realized this all comes form the same people who brought you having to be centered to use much of Grandmaster of Flowers while they knew they would be forcing people to level in it due to Twist of Fate Points with the overwhelming minority being Centered Monks...

    again true awesomeness!


    I'm really looking forward to Shiradi Champion [being TWF]





    As for Unholy damage...

    Quote Originally Posted by Genasi View Post

    The way "Unholy" weapons work is that the weapon itself only applies the effect when the enemy qualifies to be hit by it, hence why they don't work on evil enemies. I've tested the Unholy damage in Shadowdancer and it works against anything I've used it on, including evil-aligned undead and such. If any of you see it fail to work on a mob while playing, let me know and I'll check it out.
    Unholy burst only works on Good-aligned as it doesn't do Unholy damage... instead doing Evil damage???



    So this Unholy is not that Unholy as it is really just "untyped" damage if it works on everything...right?

    .
    You know I had been using the Superior Sarcasm font exclusively but it seems in a unannounced hotfix they slipped in the Sovereign Sarcasm font... keep up the good work guys!

  13. #153
    Community Member Moonsickle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brzytki View Post
    The evil damage from SD actually damages everything, it was the first thing people cried about in Beta regarding this ability so please stop saying we didn't test things. It was tested, even Genasi tested it specifically after the outcry.

    That of course doesn't change the fact that SD was in a lot better shape (actually working) in Beta 2/3 than now on live.

    Shadowform is permanent iirc.

    You shouldn't hate people for wanting Consume to work - imagine it had a spell pen check before...

    Charges for Epic Moment are on a separate counter and do not disappear when you use Shadow Charges for other abilities.



    No it's not hating anyone for wanting Consume to work... don't know where I said that?


    It was that "was Consume the only path anyone took" as if you didn't take that path you would have no Shadow Charges till Tier 6 after taking Shadow Form [which is worded very vaguely in regards to it's duration] and if you didn't take that...

    no one realized that you'd never get any Shadow Charges?


    Don't think anyone looked at that possibility... that's all


    and if you're not getting Shadow Charges... how do you know how you're using or losing them?

    .
    Last edited by Moonsickle; 07-27-2012 at 06:04 PM.
    You know I had been using the Superior Sarcasm font exclusively but it seems in a unannounced hotfix they slipped in the Sovereign Sarcasm font... keep up the good work guys!

  14. #154
    Community Member Moonsickle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sephiroth1084 View Post
    You should read more. The damage works on basically everything--evil creatures are not immune to it.


    Shadow Form is a stance, like Wraith form is for Pale Masters. You spend one charge to enter the form, and you're in it until you turn it off or shrine. It even lasts through zoning into a quest (probably not WAI), so you can build up your shadow charges, go into Form, then go into the quest.
    Uses a separate counter, and the charges aren't expended for other abilities.

    I saw a quote in regards to the damage after I posted mine...

    and thanks for the info on Shadow Form... guess I'll need to get those last 2 points to try it out and finally get my Shadow Charges too.


    I don't trust the "reset tree" button... as box said 136pp but was grayed out with 125kpp on me... not putting another 11k on him and click and this time it take the 136K instead



    .
    You know I had been using the Superior Sarcasm font exclusively but it seems in a unannounced hotfix they slipped in the Sovereign Sarcasm font... keep up the good work guys!

  15. #155
    Community Member Moonsickle's Avatar
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    Wasn't able to copy my level 20 character for the Betas [and pre-ordered MotU] or even now to Lam for that matter... so I didn't get opportunity to test Shadowdancer, so I'm learning through playing it on the Live server.





    so I think I'm going to take vacation from the forums and just play the game... the bugs really just add to the challenge... and wasn't "challenge" the thing everyone was crying was missing from the game?
    maybe Turbine actually hit a home run here... and we're just seeing it all wrong?



    as I've come to realize I'm playing a very different game then everyone else... and my words have really little effect on things here... as I might be the only one experiencing them.



    I enjoy playing the game more then being on the forums anyways...




    Just remember if Consume starts going 5 for 5 on kills... the casters are going to raise their voices wailing about... well Wail... and next thing you know the Devs will have their torches & nerfforks out...

    then Consume be a 6 sec clicky that does 1d3 every 3 seconds of pink pony damage that can be resisted on a DC of any roll other than a 1



    .
    You know I had been using the Superior Sarcasm font exclusively but it seems in a unannounced hotfix they slipped in the Sovereign Sarcasm font... keep up the good work guys!

  16. #156
    Community Member barecm's Avatar
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    As a ranged fighting character, I was sort of intrigued by this line. I have leveled it up to get executioners strike and was completely let down. I had to do a little research before I found the info that it is completely broken. I also was looking for my shadow charge icon like Fey Favor icon and found that there is not icon; which is not a huge deal actually... however... More importantly, it doesn't work right either. Wow. Awesome job. I really don't understand how they release a garbage product and then let it ride in game for months before fixing. Awful job on this line. Coming from Shiradi Champion, I was expecting the same functional abilities. What a complete let down and poor job by Turbine on this line. I am punting on this one until it is fixed and level something else up that is not totally screwed up. Two big fat thumbs down Turbine for this line. The lack of functionality in this line is laughable. Truly a failure.
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  17. #157
    Community Member Aerendil's Avatar
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    Not sure if this has been mentioned, but would it be possible to allow Shadowdancer levels to count as Rogue levels? (in the same way the caster ED levels count as caster levels).

    Reason being, Assassins are more or less *forced* to pick up T1 Stealthy for +6 Assassinate DC, since their effective DC stops at level 20.
    To elaborate, Assassinate DC is : 10 + *Rogue level* + Int modifier (+ any other modifiers): in which case Rogue level stops at 20 since ED's don't seem to count.

    So at best, a Rogue is looking at 10 + 20 (Rogue) + 6 (Stealthy T3) + 2 (Midnight Greetings - presuming it stacks with Stealthy) + Int modifier = 38 + Int.
    (also keep in mind, that's the *best* case scenerio - for many who don't have eMidnight, it will be 36 + Int. Or for those who don't go Shadowdancer, it will be 30 + Int).


    Conversely, Executioner's Shot/Strike is DC 14 + *Character level* + Dex mod: in other words, 39 + Dex..... higher than Assassinate can possibly get; doesn't require stealth; and can be used from range.
    (provided Exe Strike gets fixed some time soon).

    Seems skewed :/

  18. #158
    Community Member sephiroth1084's Avatar
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    A dev mentioned not being able to do something like that during the closed beta, I believe. I had been pressing to try and get various destinies to add to heroic class levels for things like Assassinate, monk finisher DCs, paladin smite and Lay On Hands, etc...

    Assassins aren't the only ones that got screwed by the ED system. Stealthy was at least a nod to addressing this, is cheap and easily twistable, so rogues got off easy. Monks and paladins got zilch for most of their abilities.
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  19. #159
    Community Member barecm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aerendil View Post

    Conversely, Executioner's Shot/Strike is DC 14 + *Character level* + Dex mod: in other words, 39 + Dex..... higher than Assassinate can possibly get; doesn't require stealth; and can be used from range.
    (provided Exe Strike gets fixed some time soon).

    Seems skewed :/
    Since it doesn't work, it is:

    0(DC14+CLV+Dex Mod) =0

    So, I would argue that assasinate is still king... cause you can actually make it happen.
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  20. #160
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    Dark Imbuement still 2d6..meh. Where is Genasi please? This EPIC MOMENT needs serious love.

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