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  1. #101
    Community Member Havok.cry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NexEverto View Post
    See, I'm not so sure I agree with your statement that Shiradi is not the Ranger ED. I totally agree, the EDs are meant to allow people to try different play styles, however I don't think the Dev's were intended different combat play styles, but class play styles. Every other ED strongly resembles the class it comes from, creating an obvious link between the play style of the class and the ED. This one however seems to have a very strained link, which focuses on the most unplayable part of the Ranger however highly significant parts of the Artificer.

    My bets are, if Artificers had an ED that resembled them more, this ED would look totally different. I hope when/if the Artificer ED comes out, this ED gets a working over to make it fit the Ranger play style more.

    At the end of the day EDs are also marketing tool for Turbine; people will spend points leveling EDs, buying things for EDs, as well as creating new characters after trying different EDs and finding they enjoy that type of class play style, and then they'll start the point spending cycle all over again.
    Honestly I am glad they took the route of doing a ranged combat destiny rather than a bow/twf destiny. I dislike the style switching that rangers need to do to maintain DPS, and I look forward to the day when an archer can, like an artificer, not have to use melee weapons. I also wish they would do a TWF destiny, a 3rd divine destiny, a druid based destiny, and a mechanic/arti destiny, without them the destiniy tree seems half finished.

    I do wish that this destiny benefited bows more than repeaters, but I think any suggestions towards that end would fall on deaf ears, so haven't bothered till now to make any. The suggestion I would make would be to make the proc chance on the abilities based on rate of fire, with higher rates of fire giving lower proc chances, and specials like many shot not counted in such calculation (just base weapon fire rate).

    If I were going to do the epic moment for this destiny I would have it be one of two ways. The first choice I would do would be every enemy in range gets struck by an arrow as if you had fired it from you currently equipped bow every second, and have this effect be affected by your ranged combat feats. All proc chances would apply. The second choice would be to base it on your fey favor stacks with the queen sending you a squad of 5 epic pixies (flying archers) per stack of fey favor, lasting for 1 minute per stack of fey favor. Either of those would feel epic to me. The current epic moment doesn't feel right, it sounds cool, but at the very least it is miss-named imo. If its not hitting them with arrows it should be called something other than rain of arrows.
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  2. #102

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    Glad to see that rain of arrows is improved but this entire ED is lacking still quite considerably compared to the other options out there.

    I pointed out weaknesses repeatedly in closed beta that are still there such as really weak dc's that cannot be improved in any way for pin/whistler/nerve toxin, or the overall weakness of the random chance procs. Instead things were moved to later tiers and completely ruined the natural point progression of the destiny and took away any twistability it really has.

    The destiny is overall too random and does nothing to shorten the gap between ranged bow/xbow users when compared to melee and casters dps wise in fact the gap will be significantly wider.

    As it stands this ED is nothing more than flavor and maybe one or two decent twists. Sad that you have to traverse this to get between dreadnaught and fury. I guess that works as a good marketing technique.
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  3. #103
    Community Member sephiroth1084's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    Rain of Arrows now has a 10% chance each second to deal 10d100 damage. Each of the ten dice of damage is a random damage type.


    This is potentially still subject to some changing/buffing in the future.


    Also removed a great deal of excess combat log spam associated with various Prism line effects.
    I'd rather see this become a smaller amount of damage per tick at 100% chance of hitting, using piercing damage (these are supposed to be raining arrows, right?) with some additional, CC effect attached. And remember that this is an epic moment! It's supposed to be a big deal! We have casters firing off spells that deal well upwards of 2,000 damage as an instant effect without having to build up to it.
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  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    Dimension Door attempts to spawn much less than 7% of the time.
    Out of curiosity if your diplo was high enough to constantly get critical success with audience with the queen for the 100% double rainbow effect what would be the odds of getting dd on an attack? (with many shot going to)

    also does any one have a list of prism stance effects?

  5. #105
    Community Member threefeetunder's Avatar
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    How about this for an Epic Moment:
    Every second, 10 hits of 10 damage each, each being a random element and having a chance to proc stuff individually, to all targets around you for 30 seconds (range being something like all or nothing range, but if possible doesn't hit targets through walls). Some actually decent damage and a way to make use of the stuff the rest of the destiny offers.

    Before someone complains about damage being too high, this moment needs to:
    a. be a bloody epic moment, comparable to other epic moments, even with this the main reason it's good enough to be an epic moment is the aoe portion. Numbers overall in this Destiny are very conservative.
    b. compensate for the relative weakness of the overall Destiny
    c. this does a total of 3k damage overall per target. all of nothing oneshots stuff. blitz is, well, gamechanging, fury would still probably end up adding way, way more then 3k damage on single targets, even the bard epic moment would easily add more damage on single targets (except maybe on bosses) and that's without a buildup. If it wasn't aoe, I would propose much higher numbers.

    That said, even if this epic moment was completely dreadful i'd still take the destiny if only for double rainbow, random effects is totally my kind of thing

  6. #106
    Community Member NexEverto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok.cry View Post
    Honestly I am glad they took the route of doing a ranged combat destiny rather than a bow/twf destiny. I dislike the style switching that rangers need to do to maintain DPS, and I look forward to the day when an archer can, like an artificer, not have to use melee weapons. I also wish they would do a TWF destiny, a 3rd divine destiny, a druid based destiny, and a mechanic/arti destiny, without them the destiniy tree seems half finished.

    I do wish that this destiny benefited bows more than repeaters, but I think any suggestions towards that end would fall on deaf ears, so haven't bothered till now to make any. The suggestion I would make would be to make the proc chance on the abilities based on rate of fire, with higher rates of fire giving lower proc chances, and specials like many shot not counted in such calculation (just base weapon fire rate).

    If I were going to do the epic moment for this destiny I would have it be one of two ways. The first choice I would do would be every enemy in range gets struck by an arrow as if you had fired it from you currently equipped bow every second, and have this effect be affected by your ranged combat feats. All proc chances would apply. The second choice would be to base it on your fey favor stacks with the queen sending you a squad of 5 epic pixies (flying archers) per stack of fey favor, lasting for 1 minute per stack of fey favor. Either of those would feel epic to me. The current epic moment doesn't feel right, it sounds cool, but at the very least it is miss-named imo. If its not hitting them with arrows it should be called something other than rain of arrows.
    I will admit, I do like the idea of a Ranged Focus ED, however it does very little to close the gap of Melee Vs Ranged Vs Spell Combat created in Heroic Levels, and honestly this ED just puts us AAs further behind. I personally dislike that this ED has any link to spells, I think it should have been more kept in line with what Rangers are, Ranged and TWF, with the option of buffing Ranged Combat, TWF Combat, or bits of both. I think further down the track a purely Ranged/Bow ED should be implemented, which provides bonuses to Bow Combat like we see other EDs provide to THF. An ED which focuses purely on Arcane Archers and Deepwood Snipers, and gives them bonuses. However as an immediate release, I think this ED is a poor idea which will likely end up damaging the Ranger/Bow Ranged name even more.

    When I first started playing a Ranger, I was like you. I used to hate being forced to swap between Melee and Ranged DPS to be competitive, however one day I realized that Rangers are the only Class which has the ability to truly and successfully specialize in two forms of combat, giving them greater versatility than other classes. Sure, other classes can do both too, but no to the same extend and it isn't as supported as well. I'll admit, without great gear, or multi-classing gymnastics, Ranger Ranged damage is poor, and with every class being able to access a SP Pool come expansion I suspect you'll see less of them, however this only highlights the nature of the real issue with ranged combat; an issue which lies in the Heroic Levels and this ED does nothing to fix.

    Hopefully, when the new Enhancement system comes things will change, but with comments I've seen already from Turbine staff with wanting to keep Ranged Combat behind all other forms of combat, I don't have high hopes, and I also know that one of the major causes of poor Ranged DPS (alacrity) will likely not be addressed.

    I like your suggestions for EDs, though 5 Epic Pixies would probably annoy me a little as they aren't how I envision my Ranger, but that's a personal thing I could get over. The idea of Pixies firing arrows down on your target is actually how I see Rain of Arrows. I think your on to a winner with your first idea, though I'd take it a little further and add something like 250% damage to all attacks using that ED.

    Quote Originally Posted by sephiroth1084 View Post
    I'd rather see this become a smaller amount of damage per tick at 100% chance of hitting, using piercing damage (these are supposed to be raining arrows, right?) with some additional, CC effect attached. And remember that this is an epic moment! It's supposed to be a big deal! We have casters firing off spells that deal well upwards of 2,000 damage as an instant effect without having to build up to it.
    I agree, not like any other Epic Moment has a percentage chance of being useless and doing less damage than a caster does sneezing. Damage should be Untyped/Bane/Piercing Damage in my eyes, random elements that have a chance of healing/doing nothing/reduced damage to enemies aren't fun or useful. Again, which other Epic Moment has the chance to do nothing? That's my major issue with the Rainbow line too. I'm not sure about your idea for the CC effect however, I don't really see how having arrows rain down on you would pin you to the ground, if anything it'd likely give you some puncture wounds, bleed effects, etc. which was something I tried to incorporate with my idea for this Epic Moment.

    Though... I guess having arrows sticking out of you would slow you down...

    Quote Originally Posted by LeLoric View Post
    Glad to see that rain of arrows is improved but this entire ED is lacking still quite considerably compared to the other options out there.

    I pointed out weaknesses repeatedly in closed beta that are still there such as really weak dc's that cannot be improved in any way for pin/whistler/nerve toxin, or the overall weakness of the random chance procs. Instead things were moved to later tiers and completely ruined the natural point progression of the destiny and took away any twistability it really has.

    The destiny is overall too random and does nothing to shorten the gap between ranged bow/xbow users when compared to melee and casters dps wise in fact the gap will be significantly wider.

    As it stands this ED is nothing more than flavor and maybe one or two decent twists. Sad that you have to traverse this to get between dreadnaught and fury. I guess that works as a good marketing technique.
    My thoughts exactly, had to quote you just because I completely agree.
    Last edited by NexEverto; 06-14-2012 at 04:03 AM.
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  7. #107
    Community Member barecm's Avatar
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    I would like to see rain of arrows change to more of a useable AoE. Have a target that we can move around, place it in the spot we want the rain of arrows, click on the spot and watch it happen. Having it centered around the archer is a bit silly since the whole point of being ranged is, well, attacking at range.
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  8. #108
    Community Member Aerendil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by barecm View Post
    I would like to see rain of arrows change to more of a useable AoE. Have a target that we can move around, place it in the spot we want the rain of arrows, click on the spot and watch it happen. Having it centered around the archer is a bit silly since the whole point of being ranged is, well, attacking at range.
    Agreed.
    This is what I initially assumed the ability would be. When I saw it was centered around the character, I was a bit surprised to be honest.

  9. #109
    Developer Vargouille's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fungi View Post
    Out of curiosity if your diplo was high enough to constantly get critical success with audience with the queen for the 100% double rainbow effect
    FYI! This buff isn't supposed to show up every time you critically succeed in addition to the other buffs. (It's a bug that it does.)

    There are some few effects in Double Rainbow that are roughly one-in-a-million chance.
    Last edited by Vargouille; 06-14-2012 at 12:28 PM.

  10. #110
    Developer Vargouille's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeLoric View Post
    I pointed out weaknesses repeatedly in closed beta that are still there such as really weak dc's that cannot be improved in any way for pin/whistler/nerve toxin
    We completely removed the saves for these abilities.
    Last edited by Vargouille; 06-14-2012 at 11:38 AM.

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    FYI! This buff isn't supposed to show up every time you critically succeed in addition to the other buffs.

    There are some few effects in Double Rainbow that are roughly one-in-a-million chance.
    I was really hoping i could use a diplo build and use audince offensivly T.T

    guess its going to be a defense only ability unless you are feeling lucky.

  12. #112
    Community Member barecm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    There are some few effects in Double Rainbow that are roughly one-in-a-million chance.

    If you can let us know which effects are the 1 in a million, If it is cool... I am going to shoot a million arrows just to see what happens. Seriously, I will.
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  13. #113
    Developer Vargouille's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by barecm View Post
    If you can let us know which effects are the 1 in a million, If it is cool... I am going to shoot a million arrows just to see what happens. Seriously, I will.
    Well, we like to keep some surprises. Though we fully expect people to attack the training dummy quite a lot, too.

    Individual effects may or may not be added and removed over time to keep this mildly mysterious.

    The super rare effects are more varied than the common effects, which are designed to generally be useful in combat, such as AoE damage effects, CC, or near-death-like effects (stoning, insanity, etc.) The rare effects are sometimes crazy useful, but also sometimes ... pork products. As a single example.
    Last edited by Vargouille; 06-14-2012 at 12:42 PM.

  14. #114
    Community Member barecm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    Well, we like to keep some surprises. Though we fully expect people to attack the training dummy quite a lot, too.

    Individual effects may or may not be added and removed over time to keep this mildly mysterious.

    The super rare effects are more varied than the common effects, which are designed to generally be useful in combat, such as AoE damage effects, CC, or near-death-like effects (stoning, insanity, etc.) The rare effects are sometimes crazy useful, but also sometimes ... pork products. As a single example.
    If you are talking about the 1st piece of B-Day cake that rained hams.... I am ALL IN on that... lol.
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  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    The rare effects are sometimes crazy useful, but also sometimes ... pork products. As a single example.
    I need to keep my screenshot key ready to catch it someday when a raid boss goes down in a hail of hams.

  16. #116

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    Well, we like to keep some surprises. Though we fully expect people to attack the training dummy quite a lot, too.

    Individual effects may or may not be added and removed over time to keep this mildly mysterious.

    The super rare effects are more varied than the common effects, which are designed to generally be useful in combat, such as AoE damage effects, CC, or near-death-like effects (stoning, insanity, etc.) The rare effects are sometimes crazy useful, but also sometimes ... pork products. As a single example.
    GAH!

    I so wish my arti could start out as a Shiradi.

  17. #117
    Hero rdasca's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok.cry View Post
    I'm not sure how you can interpret that to mean All ranged. I did specify the kiting ones, and idjits infers the ones who aren't smart. Take those together and you get a much narrower group than all, or even most. As to the number ten thousand, given that I'm not a turbine employee, you might consider that the number may have been pulled out of a deep dark hole to put in place of the word "alot" as a random number makes the sentence more interesting.
    I did so because I was getting frustrated at not being able to get my point across, sorry. I did and do know what you meant.
    You seem to have missed my point entirely though. If archers who are poor party members are encouraged, by a high level ability, to gain the ability to not be as poor of party members, then it is a good thing IMHO. The diplomacy requirement does that. People see audience and think hmm I should get diplomacy. Then they have it and they think hmm I might as well use it. So they put it on their hot bar and a bajillion melees rejoice as the "kiting idjit" population takes a drastic drop in numbers.
    See here is where I disagree with you strongly; if they are "idjits" and not willing to learn to kite properly then this will not help them.
    The anti archer hate that is rampant in the game dies down due to this population drop and the game in general becomes a better environment for the archer player, because of that diplomacy the devs encouraged him to pick up, he no longer plays in a manner detrimental to the vast majority of players, and is not left behind in lava pools by healers anymore.
    I think this ED will make that hate much worse, not better, the very nature of this destiny is randomness, while is fun and has a "wow" effect the first time or two, in a group, in a raid, no one else is going to want to risk a failure on that randomness, hence my harping on removing the negative aspects of the random effects will offset that, I hope by some at least.

    I could go on and on with this scenario, but I assume you personally don't care much. Your inventory slot is important to you and you shouldn't have to carry another item. You also shouldn't have to put any work into increasing a cross class skill no matter how useful it might be... I wonder if you feel the same about umd.
    Now who is talking for whom? I could care less about another item to carry, my point has always been why should it be necessary, no other tier 6 ability requires anything like this, but I would be ok with that if they took the stupid, asinine negative effects out of the equation.
    Since you wonder how I feel about umd, all my toons have the max umd they can get. Oh and while we are on the subject of skills, my AAs diplo sets around 18 with no item, so with a +10 stack and 5 epic levels he will be at 33 base, as you can see I am not all that worried about diplo for myself, this has always been about the fact I think this is a silly mechanic and needs to be changed .


    If each of them is applied separately, like a magic missle effect, that would be awesome, so it would allow each die to proc all the effects. /hopes and prays
    Quote Originally Posted by Havok.cry View Post
    Honestly I am glad they took the route of doing a ranged combat destiny rather than a bow/twf destiny. I dislike the style switching that rangers need to do to maintain DPS, and I look forward to the day when an archer can, like an artificer, not have to use melee weapons. I also wish they would do a TWF destiny, a 3rd divine destiny, a druid based destiny, and a mechanic/arti destiny, without them the destiniy tree seems half finished.
    My AA has more swords than bows
    I do wish that this destiny benefited bows more than repeaters, but I think any suggestions towards that end would fall on deaf ears, so haven't bothered till now to make any. The suggestion I would make would be to make the proc chance on the abilities based on rate of fire, with higher rates of fire giving lower proc chances, and specials like many shot not counted in such calculation (just base weapon fire rate).
    agreed
    If I were going to do the epic moment for this destiny I would have it be one of two ways. The first choice I would do would be every enemy in range gets struck by an arrow as if you had fired it from you currently equipped bow every second, and have this effect be affected by your ranged combat feats. All proc chances would apply. The second choice would be to base it on your fey favor stacks with the queen sending you a squad of 5 epic pixies (flying archers) per stack of fey favor, lasting for 1 minute per stack of fey favor. Either of those would feel epic to me. The current epic moment doesn't feel right, it sounds cool, but at the very least it is miss-named imo. If its not hitting them with arrows it should be called something other than rain of arrows.
    Your first idea has some merit, would have to play with it to see, not a big fan of the second idea.
    For me an epic moment would feel like multishot on steroids, I do not know if it would be to OP, but how many where here when they broke multishot and you could use it over and over with zero cool down, what if when you got so much favor, you could use multishot for two minutes flat out?
    Quote Originally Posted by LeLoric View Post
    Glad to see that rain of arrows is improved but this entire ED is lacking still quite considerably compared to the other options out there.
    agreed
    I pointed out weaknesses repeatedly in closed beta that are still there such as really weak dc's that cannot be improved in any way for pin/whistler/nerve toxin, or the overall weakness of the random chance procs. Instead things were moved to later tiers and completely ruined the natural point progression of the destiny and took away any twistability it really has.

    The destiny is overall too random and does nothing to shorten the gap between ranged bow/xbow users when compared to melee and casters dps wise in fact the gap will be significantly wider.
    it is the randomness that bothers me, I am not a fan of this epic potion of wonder.
    As it stands this ED is nothing more than flavor and maybe one or two decent twists. Sad that you have to traverse this to get between dreadnaught and fury. I guess that works as a good marketing technique.
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  18. #118
    Hero rdasca's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    Well, we like to keep some surprises. Though we fully expect people to attack the training dummy quite a lot, too.

    Individual effects may or may not be added and removed over time to keep this mildly mysterious.

    The super rare effects are more varied than the common effects, which are designed to generally be useful in combat, such as AoE damage effects, CC, or near-death-like effects (stoning, insanity, etc.) The rare effects are sometimes crazy useful, but also sometimes ... pork products. As a single example.
    I would have rather had a ranged ED that was useful from tier 1 to tier 6, not a bunch of random effects that no one will be able to count on when needed.

    Meh ... I just do not get the need to mess with a play style that is already considered by a lot of people to be bottom of the ladder.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarrant View Post
    I just don't think it's right to make fun of DDO's NPCs. Infractions for everyone!

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by rdasca View Post
    I would have rather had a ranged ED that was useful from tier 1 to tier 6, not a bunch of random effects that no one will be able to count on when needed.
    Stay Frosty and Stay Good are also available stances in the tree, for those that prefer consistency.

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    The rare effects are sometimes crazy useful, but also sometimes ... pork products. As a single example.
    You and Breca are in a tight race you know.. fate singer was head and shoulders in lead for my bard/AA's must have destiny but.. The bard that makes the heavens open up, and pour out ham...

    Now I may have to TR him into a ranger life after all.
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