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  1. #41
    Developer Vargouille's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by threefeetunder View Post
    I'm curious, is there a roof where more diplo is useless and you just get the max bonus (whatever that might be), or can you always get better bonuses. aka, is there a difference between 50 diplo and 70 diplo?
    There is a point where the Queen cannot be more charmed.

    There is a fairly big spread between Success and Critical Success on this Diplomacy check. But there's no Super Duper Critical Success.

  2. #42
    Hero rdasca's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    Additionally, Favor of the Fey, gained through ranged combat and offensive spell casting, gives +1 Diplomacy per stack, up to +10 Diplomacy.
    So with normal gear my non-umd AA Ranger starting with 10 cha (8 base plus 2 tome) with zero cha gear because he needs none, has a max of a 30 dipo, 1d20 plus a +10 max stack; tell me again how this will ever be worth using?

    Maybe a dex based skill would be better here? Or even a wis skill would make more since.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarrant View Post
    I just don't think it's right to make fun of DDO's NPCs. Infractions for everyone!

  3. #43
    Community Member legendlore's Avatar
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    I realize that this is supposed to be the ranged build destiny and I really like the fey feel of it, which kind of makes it weird that I'm likely to use it for my technological artificer that is about as fey as a brick.

    While the elven scimitar/rapier user isn't. Any chance of adding an Queens blade ability? That allows for use of elven weapons (rapiers/scimitars) in conjunction with some of the abilities?

    Now this may have some balance issues due to attack rate of ranged vs melee and I'm guessing a twf destiny is likely already in the works, but it would be nice if the fey theme destiny included elven weapons.

    As is I just get the mental picture of my brick of an artificer talking to the queen while my elf is likely to never see her :P

  4. #44
    Developer Vargouille's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rdasca View Post
    So with normal gear my non-umd AA Ranger starting with 10 cha (8 base plus 2 tome) with zero cha gear because he needs none, has a max of a 30 dipo, 1d20 plus a +10 max stack; tell me again how this will ever be worth using?
    You'll still heal 1000 HP over time, regardless of your Diplomacy check. If that's the important part to you, then the diplomacy part doesn't necessarily matter much, though more is still better.

    Regardless, not every ability should appeal equally to every character. It's more than OK when some abilities are more valuable to some character builds than others.

  5. #45
    Community Member Eladiun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    Regardless, not every ability should appeal equally to every character. It's more than OK when some abilities are more valuable to some character builds than others.

    True, but shouldn't the Archery Destiny's, Epic Moment (i.e. Premier Ability) appeal to the primary Archery Class and build; the Ranger AA. So that's basically a strawman argument.

    If Master Blitz required that you use a bow, would that make a whole lot of sense.

    I'm sorry to keep telling you this but your baby is ugly. Yes, thematically it has a nice elf feel but practically it stinks on ice for actually in game Rangers.
    Last edited by Eladiun; 06-12-2012 at 02:42 PM.
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  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eladiun View Post
    True, but shouldn't the Archery Destinies, Epic Moment (i.e. Premier Ability) appeal to the primary Archery Class and build; the Ranger AA. So that's basically a strawman argument.

    If Master Blitz required that you use a bow, would that make a whole lot of sense.

    I'm sorry to keep telling you this but your baby is ugly. Yes, thematically it has a nice elf feel but practically it stinks on ice for actually in game Rangers.
    There's a lot of other nice abilities in the Shiradi tree though.

    Epic Moments are cool, but I don't think everyone will necessarily take them even if they like the destiny as a whole. Even still, an epic moment has to be reasonably balanced, so I don't think they're intended to always be a must-take for each destiny.

    Anyway, more than rangers can use bows, and Arcane Archers in particular can be lots of different classes.


    Edit: This is still one of my more loved destinies actually.
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  7. #47
    Hero rdasca's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    Regardless, not every ability should appeal equally to every character. It's more than OK when some abilities are more valuable to some character builds than others.
    I did not think I was asking for every "ability" to be good for every build, what I was referring to is, to a ranger putting points into cha is not helpful your toon at all, and putting points into diplo is not really helpful to most rangers as they either are ranging or twf in close and in both cases diplo will not do them much good. But an arti (an umd using class) will have as much cha as they can and still be a good toon, is going to have a higher base chance at any "good" stuff from the queen.

    So how is this "Fey"?
    As this is the forced destiny for rangers to start with, I ask again (as others already have) why base this ability on a non-class skill?
    The check should be made against something that rangers are required to have like dex.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarrant View Post
    I just don't think it's right to make fun of DDO's NPCs. Infractions for everyone!

  8. #48
    Community Member Havok.cry's Avatar
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    Monkchers have diplomacy as a class skill. Many AA builds do in fact.
    And no, rangers will not be force to start shiradi, the will be able to pick between it and fury of the wild. If they multi class they will have access to every sphere they have six appropriate class levels in, for that initial choice.
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  9. #49
    Community Member Eladiun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok.cry View Post
    Monkchers have diplomacy as a class skill. Many AA builds do in fact.
    And no, rangers will not be force to start shiradi, the will be able to pick between it and fury of the wild. If they multi class they will have access to every sphere they have six appropriate class levels in, for that initial choice.
    Fury is a great choice for rangers...not.
    “If at first you don't succeed, keep on sucking till you do succeed.”

  10. #50
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    Really , come on !! . how come it seems everything about rangers is chance and burst , Can't we just get a static ability , I wan't my epic moment to meen something to me . If not can't we get two differen't chance tables , one more geared for druid and the other ranger since that is what this destiny is more geared towards . It's just depressing to see this destiny topped off with a maybe ok ability . I guess since the class is based on chance and burst it fits the theme but why the useless stuff , getting healed over time is really corny . i usually have a healer in group or for the most part can heal myself

  11. #51
    Developer Vargouille's Avatar
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    Shiradi Champion's Epic Moment is Rain of Arrows. This is intended to be desirable by Rangers.

    Apologies if there's been some confusion on this point.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by murf201 View Post
    Really , come on !! . how come it seems everything about rangers is chance and burst , Can't we just get a static ability , I wan't my epic moment to meen something to me . If not can't we get two differen't chance tables , one more geared for druid and the other ranger since that is what this destiny is more geared towards . It's just depressing to see this destiny topped off with a maybe ok ability . I guess since the class is based on chance and burst it fits the theme but why the useless stuff , getting healed over time is really corny . i usually have a healer in group or for the most part can heal myself
    He did say a while back that a low diplo is good as well , but still i was hoping to get something uber dps wise .




    " finally my epic moment has built up , wait for it .... wait for it ... nah it was just a heal this time , stinks i was at full health to begin with . "

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    Shiradi Champion's Epic Moment is Rain of Arrows. This is intended to be desirable by Rangers.

    Apologies if there's been some confusion on this point.
    I take that back ... You winn ... slightly embarresed

  14. #54
    Community Member LafoMamone's Avatar
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    Just curious if Fey Form will stack with FvS capstone Cold Iron DR.

    I believe they should. After all, WF adamantine body feat and WF DR enhancements stack perfectly with LoB capstone up to a total of DR 15/addy.

  15. #55
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    silly me

  16. #56
    Developer Vargouille's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by murf201 View Post
    " finally my epic moment has built up , wait for it .... wait for it ... nah it was just a heal this time , stinks i was at full health to begin with . "
    No worries on the confusion. Audience with the Queen has no build-up. After resting you can use it immediately if you like, and see how your Diplomacy is faring that day. That's probably not the ideal method, mind you!

    Also, the heal over time is just the thing you always get. There's always some other effect. Though the other effect isn't always beneficial.
    Last edited by Vargouille; 06-12-2012 at 03:39 PM.

  17. #57
    Hero rdasca's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok.cry View Post
    Monkchers have diplomacy as a class skill. Many AA builds do in fact.
    And no, rangers will not be force to start shiradi, the will be able to pick between it and fury of the wild. If they multi class they will have access to every sphere they have six appropriate class levels in, for that initial choice.
    So your advice is to make a non-ranger ranged toon? My response is why is that necessary? Why is a pure AA at a disadvantage at ranged combat? If you ask me that speaks more to the basic problems AA's already have, but it does nothing to answer my question about this destiny.

    And really a ranged ranger taking Fury of the Wild? Maybe to twist something but as their primary .... ummmm no thanks.

    Bottom line is this destiny is supposed to be about ranged combat, I am not debating here if it fails or succeeds in that regard, what I am asking is why the main class that will most likely be using this destiny is hindered in using the abilities of the destiny?

    Show me one other top tier (tier 6) ability from any of the destinies that require your toon have some silly arbitrary skill to use.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarrant View Post
    I just don't think it's right to make fun of DDO's NPCs. Infractions for everyone!

  18. #58
    Community Member ghortagg's Avatar
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    I think that shiradi Champion is a very good Epic destiny for Mechanical rogue:

    more ranged damagr, it works very fine thank you.
    Some way of healing, nice.
    And normally rogue have a high diplomacy score (around 45 50)


    and i knew my epic golden guile would be usefull someday !!!!
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    underpowered, understuffed, unoptimized, but still doing the job !

  19. #59
    Community Member Schmoe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    You'll still heal 1000 HP over time, regardless of your Diplomacy check. If that's the important part to you, then the diplomacy part doesn't necessarily matter much, though more is still better.

    Regardless, not every ability should appeal equally to every character. It's more than OK when some abilities are more valuable to some character builds than others.
    I'm OK with the ability not being fabulous for Rangers. Although, given the chance of a harmful effect, the 7 second incapacitated activation period, and the unlikelihood of getting the really good effects, it should probably be considered as something that Rangers will never take.

    That leaves Rain of Arrows as the only Tier 6 ability that Rangers (and ranged Kensai, and many other ranged users) will get from the ED. I don't have first-hand experience with the ability, so I can't make any good claims about how effective it is, although it appears somewhat on the weak side. It averages out to about 10 dps on nearby enemies for 30 seconds. That doesn't sound very promising.
    "And you ate an apple, and I ate a pear,
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  20. #60
    Community Member Havok.cry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rdasca View Post
    So your advice is to make a non-ranger ranged toon? My response is why is that necessary? Why is a pure AA at a disadvantage at ranged combat? If you ask me that speaks more to the basic problems AA's already have, but it does nothing to answer my question about this destiny.

    And really a ranged ranger taking Fury of the Wild? Maybe to twist something but as their primary .... ummmm no thanks.

    Bottom line is this destiny is supposed to be about ranged combat, I am not debating here if it fails or succeeds in that regard, what I am asking is why the main class that will most likely be using this destiny is hindered in using the abilities of the destiny?

    Show me one other top tier (tier 6) ability from any of the destinies that require your toon have some silly arbitrary skill to use.
    I was not offering advice I was answering the claim than no AA has diplomacy and the claim that rangers are forced to pick shiradi, neither of which is true.

    To answer you though: shiradi does not belong to rangers, and it should not be based entirely on one class any more than the other epic destinies are.

    And also did you miss where Varg stated that Audience with the queen is not the epic moment? There is another t6 ability, maybe you should go check it out.

    As to why have a diplomacy check: personally I think it is awesome that they a putting something in to encourage kiting idjits to pick up an ability to help mitigate aggro.

    And really how hard is it going to be:
    0 ranks
    4 gh
    2 good luck
    10 favor stacks
    2 coin lords favor
    15 swap item
    5 epic levels
    --------
    38 with no ranks at all
    11 ranks cross classed
    --------
    49
    1-20 your dice roll
    --------
    50-70

    This should worry anyone.
    Last edited by Havok.cry; 06-12-2012 at 04:40 PM.
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