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  1. #1
    Brand / Commerce Manager Tolero's Avatar
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    Default Epic Destinies General Feedback

    Use this thread to provide general feedback about the Epic Destiny system!

    If you have feedback regarding a particular epic destiny, please visit their specific threads stickied at the top of this forum!

  2. #2
    Community Member sephiroth1084's Avatar
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    Default A few major points

    It needs to be easier to move from one destiny to the next, especially if we cannot select any destiny we choose as our first "free" unlock. Ranged focused artificers shouldn't have to level through 2 or 3 destinies to get to an Epic Destiny that makes more sense for them. Twists of Fate are already a strong enough reason to spend more time in various destinies without also forcing some characters to level through 3 or 4 levels of 2-3 destinies in order to get to the stuff they actually want.

    Tying +1 caster level to epic destinies is a problem. At the very least, all caster-centric destinies should grant +1 CL without specifying arcane or divine. One of the stated goals of the Epic Destinies was for each destiny to be attractive to multiple classes and roles, but with the way caster levels work right now, a wizard can't comfortably jump into Exalted Angel, and a cleric can't comfortably jump into Magister. The fact that in order to get from one of those destinies to other also means spending quite a bit of time without caster level bonuses (or any caster bonuses at all) due to the way the spheres are set up makes matters much worse.

    I'd really prefer to be able to select any destiny for free upon hitting 20 for the first time on a character. Thereafter, we should be able to progress to any other destiny within our sphere after achieving 1 level in any destiny within that sphere, and can select any destiny in an adjacent sphere after achieving level 2 in any destiny within your current sphere.

    Epic levels should either simply grant +1 caster level to all characters, +1 Cl to all characters that already have caster levels, or each caster-focused destiny should be granting +1 generic CL (or +1 divine CL and +1 arcane CL).
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  3. #3
    The Hatchery sirgog's Avatar
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    - The amount of levelling required in destinies that don't synergize with your character build and concept needs to be sharply decreased.

    Example, minor: To get to Unyielding Sentinel, a Fighter tank needs to reach level 4 in Grandmaster of Flowers. Silly requirement but not the end of the world, and that tree does have some useful abilities to an armored tank.
    Example, major: To get to Magister, a DC-oriented divine caster needs to reach level 4 in Unyielding Sentinel, level 3 in Grandmaster of Flowers, level 4 in Shadowdancer and finally level 3 in Fatespinner. Ouch. I really don't see a non-synergistic build like FvS20/Shadowdancer3 being particularly fun for most people to play.

    For people looking to absolutely optimize their character (maximum Twists of Fate) this is fine (you'd want those destinies levelled anyway) but for so many non-melee characters to have to pass through the martial sphere just strikes me as odd.


    - Some extremely powerful effects that are presently Twistable might be better off as innate to a specific Destiny. Thinking +2 spell DC effects and similar. These effects really undermine build options as they become so good that characters without them are basically gimped (just as on Live right now, Power Attack and Improved Critical:Slashing are so powerful that non-monk melee builds without them are gimped, which sharply reduces build options)

    I'd rather we are Twisting 'cool' effects like Energy Sheath: Acid that have unique effects, rather than three cookie-cutter 'I'm 2-10% better at what I do' effects.



    Finally I share Sephiroth's comments re. caster level increases, especially given that players will spend significant time out of 'their sphere' chasing Twists. Epic character levels should autogrant +1 to all caster levels and these effects should be removed from trees (or limited to +1 or +2 caster levels deep in trees where this might make sense, perhaps at high level having Draconic Incarnation: Black granting +1 or +2 Acid spell caster level and possibly also -1 or -2 to Electric spells).
    Last edited by sirgog; 06-06-2012 at 08:19 PM.
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  4. #4
    Community Member threefeetunder's Avatar
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    Maybe I was just spoiled by the closed beta, but the amount of plat needed to reset your destiny (showed as over 100.000plat) seems a wee excessive for us cash impaired folks D:

  5. #5
    Community Member CarpeNoctu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by threefeetunder View Post
    Maybe I was just spoiled by the closed beta, but the amount of plat needed to reset your destiny (showed as over 100.000plat) seems a wee excessive for us cash impaired folks D:
    Totally agree with this...

    And, what is the Loom or Loop or whatever that was mentioned as an alternative to plat?

  6. #6
    Halfling Hero phalaeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarpeNoctu View Post
    Totally agree with this...

    And, what is the Loom or Loop or whatever that was mentioned as an alternative to plat?
    Loom is a reset available in the DDO Store, of course!

    I agree with the others that the plat cost to change is TOO D*MN HIGH!!! Especially as it's new and people will want to try out different things.

    Agreed with Sephiroth and Sirgog that it's a bummer to have to spend a huge amount of time in maaaaany Destinies, as for a DC cleric to want to get to Magister. Of course, you couldn't just add to Cleric DCs, could you? But you won't. Because you hate Clerics having anything powerful....

    Allow us to start in the destiny we want. We can already multiclass now, so what's the holdup?
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  7. #7
    Community Member Chette's Avatar
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    You need to be able to pick ANY destiny you want for your first destiny unlocked, and not be limited to your current circle. Especially given that MacFloyd has indicated you will be able to buy unlocks of adjacent destinies in the DDO store, essentially sticking people in bad destinies but giving them the option of buying their way out.
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  8. #8
    Community Member Malshier's Avatar
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    Not being able to choose what destiny you want for your character for your first unlock is pretty bogus. I really feel that people are being pushed by the developers into what they think we should play, instead of whatwe want to play. Being unable to pick the Dreadnaught destiny for my THF melee bard is very sad. I didn't grind out the epic abashi set and an eSOS to be a Fatesinger.

    I have a bad feeling that there will be a DDO store item that allows you to do this.

  9. #9
    Community Member Chette's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malshier View Post
    Not being able to choose what destiny you want for your character for your first unlock is pretty bogus. I really feel that people are being pushed by the developers into what they think we should play, instead of whatwe want to play. Being unable to pick the Dreadnaught destiny for my THF melee bard is very sad. I didn't grind out the epic abashi set and an eSOS to be a Fatesinger.

    I have a bad feeling that there will be a DDO store item that allows you to do this.
    There will be, MadFloyd already said there would. But it will only unlock an adjacent destiny, so you'll need two to get to dreadnaught from fatesinger. Could be worse, you'll need 5 to get from exhaled angel to magister.
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  10. #10
    Community Member sephiroth1084's Avatar
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    Similar to the problems with poor scaling choices for caster levels, characters who have ability DCs based on a formula that takes into account their character or class level (ie., 10 + 1/2 monk level + Wis), are looking like they will become useless in epic content for most characters, because they will cease to scale in any appreciable way at level 20, while monster saves will necessarily be going up to keep pace with the ever-inflating caster DCs.

    Additionally, abilities that scale their effect based on level also end up looking weaker in epic levels where I presume monster HP will continue to scale upward to accommodate the big damage increases everyone is getting in their epic destinies. For example, Smite Evil stops progressing at level 20, and it was regarded as being fairly weak long before reaching that level.

    What I'd like to see is either:

    • Epic levels all simply add +1 to all effects that call for <class> level for their effects or DCs, and +1/2 for all effects that call for 1/2 <class> level for their effects and DCs. Yes, this means that multiclass characters who happen to have access to these abilities gain more, relatively, than pure-classes characters, but that's okay for two reasons. First, the entire epic system is stacked dramatically in favor of pure classed characters, and second, even with the extra boost to those abilities, their effects will still be behind those of the pure classed characters anyway, meaning that they will continue to be less effective.

    OR

    • Epic destinies associated with a particular class or theme (Unyielding Sentinel :: Paladin/tanks, Shadowdancer :: Rogue/dark monk/stealthy characters, Magister :: Wizard, Sorcerer, DC-focused divines) gain a twistable ability that grants extra levels (either directly, or by simply adding bonuses onto totals) for in-theme abilities. This would mean that Shadowdancer should have an enhancement line that boosts Assassinate, Assassin poisons, and probably Touch of Death, dark monk finishers, and Quivering Palm. Unyielding Sentinel should probably increase both Smite Evil and Lay On Hands damage (these especially would be good so that non-paladins pick up some of the enhancements that grant these abilities will actually get some use out of them).

    Otherwise, I foresee many of our heroic-tier abilities simply getting removed from our hotbars due to being fairly worthless.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by phalaeo View Post
    Loom is a reset available in the DDO Store, of course!

    I agree with the others that the plat cost to change is TOO D*MN HIGH!!! Especially as it's new and people will want to try out different things.

    Agreed with Sephiroth and Sirgog that it's a bummer to have to spend a huge amount of time in maaaaany Destinies, as for a DC cleric to want to get to Magister. Of course, you couldn't just add to Cleric DCs, could you? But you won't. Because you hate Clerics having anything powerful....

    Allow us to start in the destiny we want. We can already multiclass now, so what's the holdup?
    That's sad. They should just add +DC to Exalted angel - problem solved.... Oh i've forgot divines are just healbots/buffbots according to turbine so why they need additional DC and dmg?

  12. #12
    Community Member Vengeance777's Avatar
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    Allowing players to start in the destiny of their choice would be much appreciated.

    Locking us into an area not of our choice seems counterproductive to allowing multiclasses in Heroic levels.

    My artificer is ranged focused but I have to start in caster circle and crawl my way through a few other destinies, I won't even get a useful twist of fate in, before I can get to the ranged Destiny. Evoker focused favored souls and clerics, ranged Artificers, melee casters and bards are stuck grinding as well.

    This is a mechanic that won't be fun.
    Seems like we'll be doing the equivalent of a few TRs just to get into the destiny we would like to start in.

    The plat cost should be toned down as well. Especially since it appears to go up each time you reset a tree. There are plenty of plat sinks in the game already this shouldn't be one. Make it a flat rate of 10k plat and remove the climbing reset price. That would allow players to go sell a couple chests worth of loot and be able to reset destinies. Right now its looking like we'll eventually be ransacking all of IQ just to reset a destiny tree you messed up.
    Last edited by Vengeance777; 06-07-2012 at 06:49 AM.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by sephiroth1084 View Post
    Tying +1 caster level to epic destinies is a problem. At the very least, all caster-centric destinies should grant +1 CL without specifying arcane or divine. One of the stated goals of the Epic Destinies was for each destiny to be attractive to multiple classes and roles, but with the way caster levels work right now, a wizard can't comfortably jump into Exalted Angel, and a cleric can't comfortably jump into Magister. The fact that in order to get from one of those destinies to other also means spending quite a bit of time without caster level bonuses (or any caster bonuses at all) due to the way the spheres are set up makes matters much worse.

    Epic levels should either simply grant +1 caster level to all characters, +1 Cl to all characters that already have caster levels, or each caster-focused destiny should be granting +1 generic CL (or +1 divine CL and +1 arcane CL).
    Quote Originally Posted by sirgog
    - The amount of levelling required in destinies that don't synergize with your character build and concept needs to be sharply decreased.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vengeance777
    Allowing players to start in the destiny of their choice would be much appreciated.

    Locking us into an area not of our choice seems counterproductive to allowing multiclasses in Heroic levels.
    All excellent points. I hope Turbine designers pay close attention to these points.
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  14. #14
    Community Member Vazok1's Avatar
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    One of the best parts of this system for me was that there was actually value in unlocking multiple destinies so you could swap in and out depending on the situation. For example, if you are a tank and you know someone else is tanking for this quest, swap to shadowdancer or dreadnought for this quest and back to sentinal afterward. The plat cost ruins this. it means you chose the one that is most viable and you ignore everything else. Personally I can afford this plat cost if I really wanted but for others it just ruins the entire system.
    Do a low cost at first with a scaling cost after that the more times you do it each day.

    It really does take a huge fun benefit out of the system, I was so looking forward to a character not just being stuck in 1 thing but being able to do others as well.
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  15. #15
    The Hatchery danotmano1998's Avatar
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    Consider this:

    For those folks that don't have destinies purchased, how gimp will be the new gimp?
    We don't get class levels, nor will we be able to choose our epic skills!
    (It'll be a flat +1 to all, based on Dev comments.)

    So what, then do people without the destinies get?
    Generic gimpage.

    For crying out loud, Turbine, please reduce the cost of the epic destiny swaps. The whole idea behind them is flexibility, which you have already pretty much removed unless people want to spend the cash. Now you put such a steep price on the flexibility you granted us as to make it unviable. Bravo.
    Last edited by danotmano1998; 06-07-2012 at 10:32 AM.
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    Dude, did you see they way that guy just pressed button 1? It was amazing! A display of skill unseen since the 1984 World Games where in the men's room, between events, a man washed his hands with such unbridled majesty that people were claiming the faucet he used was OP.

  16. #16
    The Hatchery danotmano1998's Avatar
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    whoops, double post.
    <-Curelite Bottling Company->

    Quote Originally Posted by Chilldude
    Dude, did you see they way that guy just pressed button 1? It was amazing! A display of skill unseen since the 1984 World Games where in the men's room, between events, a man washed his hands with such unbridled majesty that people were claiming the faucet he used was OP.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vazok1 View Post
    One of the best parts of this system for me was that there was actually value in unlocking multiple destinies so you could swap in and out depending on the situation. For example, if you are a tank and you know someone else is tanking for this quest, swap to shadowdancer or dreadnought for this quest and back to sentinal afterward. The plat cost ruins this. it means you chose the one that is most viable and you ignore everything else. Personally I can afford this plat cost if I really wanted but for others it just ruins the entire system.
    Do a low cost at first with a scaling cost after that the more times you do it each day.

    It really does take a huge fun benefit out of the system, I was so looking forward to a character not just being stuck in 1 thing but being able to do others as well.
    It takes plat to reset a tree it does not cost anything to change trees. I was swapping destinies all over the place last night trying them out after cordovan gave out a bunch of epic xp.

  18. #18
    Developer Eladrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vazok1 View Post
    One of the best parts of this system for me was that there was actually value in unlocking multiple destinies so you could swap in and out depending on the situation. For example, if you are a tank and you know someone else is tanking for this quest, swap to shadowdancer or dreadnought for this quest and back to sentinal afterward. The plat cost ruins this.
    There should be no platinum cost for switching between destinies you possess - just resetting the choices you made within a destiny. In your above example, there should be no cost.

  19. #19
    Community Member sephiroth1084's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carpone View Post
    All excellent points. I hope Turbine designers pay close attention to these points.
    They aren't.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by threefeetunder View Post
    Maybe I was just spoiled by the closed beta, but the amount of plat needed to reset your destiny (showed as over 100.000plat) seems a wee excessive for us cash impaired folks D:
    [shrug] On a good day, I can generate almost 100K plat just by selling my vendor trash.

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