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  1. #21
    The Hatchery MRMechMan's Avatar
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    Either way you won't really be CC/instakilling Epic drow with their 45 SR.

    So if you are going to CC/instakill, spec for the ~32 spell pen needed to get most everything else.

    Max geared/PLed character will be at 20+9 PLs+3 item=32 with potentially another 2 from arcane augmentation.

    Plenty. In that case, focus on DCs.

    Without past lives will be 20+3item+2feat+2 enhancements+2augmentation=29 pretty good. 29 works a lot better than 27 so probably worth it.

    But, as a sorc your ench/necro DCs are probably not landing all that much anyway unless you are geared well and/or are fleshie.

    If you want to CC/instakill (36 min, 38 ok, 40 prefered), and don't have a lot of wizard PLs, I'd take the pen. Otherwise, just forget CC/instakilling and nuke, so take the DCs on your nuking spells.

    Savant type also comes into it...air savants should always take extra evoc DC, for example, as it can never be high enough. Water/earth savants can get away without it.

    Of course, the biggest one is what content you run...if you don't do content that has a lot of SR, well it is a waste of a feat then, isn't it?

    So the combo of:

    -water/earth savant
    -36-40+ necro or ench DC
    -lacking wizard/fvs PLs
    -spell pen without feat is above 25 and below 30

    is probably the only one I would take spell pen on a sorc.

  2. #22
    Community Member wax_on_wax_off's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRMechMan View Post
    -water/earth savant
    -36-40+ necro or ench DC
    -lacking wizard/fvs PLs
    -spell pen without feat is above 25 and below 30

    is probably the only one I would take spell pen on a sorc.
    Sounds about right and about what any first life fleshy sorc can aim for, WF just have to deal with being a one trick pony, different strokes for different folks and all that.
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  3. #23
    The Hatchery MRMechMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wax_on_wax_off View Post
    Sounds about right and about what any first life fleshy sorc can aim for, WF just have to deal with being a one trick pony, different strokes for different folks and all that.
    True, most WF sorcs won't be instakilling as much, or CCing EDA. Being fleshie opens up some doors-or at least opens them 2 DC wider.

    But how many fleshie sorcs can tank sully/horoth/LOB etc? How many can agro a room with AOEs and survive it without kiting while the party beats it down? Not many. Being WF opens some doors too and calling them a one trick pony isn't quite realistic.

    True, the worst WF sorcs can do damage and nothing else. But that's about the same story for the worst fleshie sorcs. Can most fleshie sorcs CC/instakill at the highest level? No.

    There is more to the class than damage-different races are simply suited to doing different "other" things.

    Personally, I find CC to be useless in a lot of cases and a waste of SP..if you have agro and are playing a solid character, things are controlled because you have DR/torc/guards/self healing and the ability to move. Instakills are a nice perk of being fleshie but you really want them to be 40+ DC which is hard on a first lifer.

    Scroll healing I find horrifying. There are some who point out that it is sp free, rarely gets interruped with 60-70 concentration and hits for almost as much or more than the ~300pts that a recon does.

    I find spending AP on amp/scroll mastery, switching out weapons, casting an unquickened possibly uninterruptable heal that takes gear slots to hit for more than 200pts, then switching weapons back, and having to wait for 6s to heal again to be unacceptable. It's a lot better than nothing but on a 3000sp+ class recon is just too good to pass up particularly when you have torc/concop/guards ect and a zergy playstyle . That's just my preference.

    I've seen some rediculously good fleshie sorcs, but some absolute trainwrecks, too. But, I guess that is true of any class/race combo. Sorc just makes fleshie/WF a very polarizing racial choice I suppose.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by wax_on_wax_off View Post
    10/10 wizard sorc will give a sorc PL as S comes before W (last time I checked).
    You are correct. It bothers me that I don't know my alphabet.

  5. #25
    Community Member wax_on_wax_off's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRMechMan View Post
    True, most WF sorcs won't be instakilling as much, or CCing EDA. Being fleshie opens up some doors-or at least opens them 2 DC wider.

    But how many fleshie sorcs can tank sully/horoth/LOB etc? How many can agro a room with AOEs and survive it without kiting while the party beats it down? Not many. Being WF opens some doors too and calling them a one trick pony isn't quite realistic.

    True, the worst WF sorcs can do damage and nothing else. But that's about the same story for the worst fleshie sorcs. Can most fleshie sorcs CC/instakill at the highest level? No.

    There is more to the class than damage-different races are simply suited to doing different "other" things.

    Personally, I find CC to be useless in a lot of cases and a waste of SP..if you have agro and are playing a solid character, things are controlled because you have DR/torc/guards/self healing and the ability to move. Instakills are a nice perk of being fleshie but you really want them to be 40+ DC which is hard on a first lifer.

    Scroll healing I find horrifying. There are some who point out that it is sp free, rarely gets interruped with 60-70 concentration and hits for almost as much or more than the ~300pts that a recon does.

    I find spending AP on amp/scroll mastery, switching out weapons, casting an unquickened possibly uninterruptable heal that takes gear slots to hit for more than 200pts, then switching weapons back, and having to wait for 6s to heal again to be unacceptable. It's a lot better than nothing but on a 3000sp+ class recon is just too good to pass up particularly when you have torc/concop/guards ect and a zergy playstyle . That's just my preference.

    I've seen some rediculously good fleshie sorcs, but some absolute trainwrecks, too. But, I guess that is true of any class/race combo. Sorc just makes fleshie/WF a very polarizing racial choice I suppose.
    This is all true, perhaps part of it is that if I want a DR/tank arcane then I pull out my pale master who is superior at taking, holding and surviving aggro than a WF Sorc by a fair margin.

    I think there's room to be a bit more generous with DCs. What you've listed is certainly true for a wizard but I think the casting speed and SP pool of a Sorc is worth 2 DCs just by itself and for most epic quests I'd prefer to use a DC 38-39 Sorc rather than a DC 40-41 wizard. That said, I'll see how I go when I finish my PL's and have the 40 DCs on my fleshy Sorc.

    I always kept a few Silver Flame pots, cure critical wands and heal scrolls handy on my fleshy Sorc. 99% of the time heal scrolls are enough for combat and maybe a wand whip or two between fights to top up but every now and again a scroll gets interrupted (often from sources that would interrupt reconstruct as well) and its handy to be able to whip a wand or chug a pot.

    I assure you that I have an incredibly zergy play style and I've never had any issue keeping up with anyone on my fleshy sorc.
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  6. #26
    Community Member Isharah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faent View Post
    You are correct. It bothers me that I don't know my alphabet.
    But if you go 10Arti/10Wiz, you're going to get wiz PL...

    Isharah(water savant) | Moooo I'm a Turtle(turtle tank) | Darlene(typical healer wannabe)

  7. #27
    Community Member muffinlad's Avatar
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    My two copper,

    I play mostly Elec and Ice sorcs. I have played with CC, and without it. I have played with Spell Pen and without it. For my playstyle, I do not like playing without Crowd Control and insta kills- and I only play Wizards for the past life benefits. So- my view is I am 75% there to do damage, and 24% there to do CC/IK (and 1% buffing...).

    For me, I would follow WaxOn's advice 100%- it is basically what I am aiming for.YMMV, but I have found that occasionally being able to keep mobs in one place/charmed/dancing etc, even if I dont hit the DC's of a Wizard, is very helpful. Being able to reliably punch through their SR---well, that is what the 3 Wiz and 3 FvS soul lives are for....so get playing....

    Regs,

    muffinopine
    Now Diving in Lava, with the Lava Divers.

    AKA, Cb,Cg,Cj,Cl,Co,Cp,Cq,Cr,Cs,Ct,Cw,Cx,Cz and...Edvard. All the other C's were taken.

  8. #28
    Community Member drathdragon's Avatar
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    ... edited . wrong thread

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