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  1. #1
    Community Member drathdragon's Avatar
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    Default better DC +1 evocation or spell penetration +2 feat ?

    i am goin to do my first TR experience...

    i need some understanding to how build my 2nd life as sorc.

    with the caracter planner i see there is 1 problem: the feat 'past life: sorcerer' can't be taken 3 times as the text says but only 1 time...

    btw i was asking myself: better to have DC evocation (with the feat past life sorcerer + spell focus(DC+1) + greater spell focus (DC+2, they stacks with past life feat?))
    or better to have high spell penetration ?

    what's the difference ? any example ?


    thanks in advance

  2. #2
    Community Member Demaril's Avatar
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    the sorcerer +1 evo dc can be stacked 3 times and doesnt cost a feat, its the past life arcane prodigy or something that can only be taken once

  3. #3
    Community Member wax_on_wax_off's Avatar
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    3 past lives of sorcerer (TR 3 times) = +3 evocation DC.

    I'd take the spell penetration every time, if a spell isn't landing due to a high reflex then you can drop waves of exhaustion (effective +3 DC), energy drain (effective +4 to +16 DC), symbol of death (effective +2 DC every pass through symbol), crushing despair (effective +2 DC if it lands usually after prepping with hypnotism) or solid fog (effective +4 DC). However, most of these effects require spell resistance to be passed making spell penetration very valuable.

    Furthermore, spell penetration makes many other spells useful like Mass Hold Monster, Wail of the Banshee and Otto's Sphere of Dancing. It's difficult to get useful DCs for these spells on a warforged but on a fleshy it is very possible (on my first life sorcerer I had 38-39 on DCs and 30 spell pen without any spell focus feats besides conjuration).
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  4. #4
    Community Member drathdragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wax_on_wax_off View Post
    3 past lives of sorcerer (TR 3 times) = +3 evocation DC.
    ahhh now i understand... ''can be taken 3 times'' means : if you TR 3 times it will stack each time.

    Quote Originally Posted by wax_on_wax_off View Post
    I'd take the spell penetration every time, if a spell isn't landing due to a high reflex then you can drop waves of exhaustion (effective +3 DC), energy drain (effective +4 to +16 DC), symbol of death (effective +2 DC every pass through symbol), crushing despair (effective +2 DC if it lands usually after prepping with hypnotism) or solid fog (effective +4 DC). However, most of these effects require spell resistance to be passed making spell penetration very valuable.

    Furthermore, spell penetration makes many other spells useful like Mass Hold Monster, Wail of the Banshee and Otto's Sphere of Dancing. It's difficult to get useful DCs for these spells on a warforged but on a fleshy it is very possible (on my first life sorcerer I had 38-39 on DCs and 30 spell pen without any spell focus feats besides conjuration).
    so are you telling me to take spell penetration instead of the spell focus DC+1 ?
    do you find Heighten Spell very necessary too ? or i can skip it ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by drathdragon View Post
    ahhh now i understand... ''can be taken 3 times'' means : if you TR 3 times it will stack each time.



    so are you telling me to take spell penetration instead of the spell focus DC+1 ?
    do you find Heighten Spell very necessary too ? or i can skip it ?
    ehm i would advice to take spell focus over spell pen for sure..

    sorcs are damaged based class i rather nuke the **** ouf of a mob
    then to debuff it with 2 different spell schools before i can start
    damaging a mob..

    spellpen are great for wizards and clerics and fvs who can instagib mobs
    or a bard whos main job is crowdcontrol.. for me a sorc is damage if you
    cant get workable dc on your damage spell you're doing something wrong..

    if you want cc and damage i suggest you build an earth savant earthgrab + 40+ web is a nice form of cc its not as great as hold monster but still very nice at times.

    and heighten is needed if you want workable dc on your damage spells or cc if thats your cup of thea so yes.. at least i always take it..

    quicken on the other hand is probably a feat you can skip as a fleshie sorc. as a wf you might need it to heal yourself.

    dont get me wrong tho its def possible to make a sorc with awesome cc and damage if youre willing to grind ouf the wiz past lives for it.. to do it both really good on a 1st or 2nd life.. with sub par gear and extenal buffs and debuffs is very tough tho..
    Last edited by bartosy; 06-05-2012 at 07:38 AM.

  6. #6
    Community Member Demaril's Avatar
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    as a sorcerer have you made a decision on which savant you wish to be? if you are going the air route evo DCs are lot more important (many of the air spells have a reflex save for half) if you are going cold id say the DCs for evo are less important and the spell pen boost to hold/fod/wail would be nicer, as for earth/acid i have no real idea not looked in to that savant

  7. #7
    Community Member wax_on_wax_off's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drathdragon View Post
    so are you telling me to take spell penetration instead of the spell focus DC+1 ?
    do you find Heighten Spell very necessary too ? or i can skip it ?
    Heighten is absolutely necessary.

    The feat lineup for my human first life sorcerer was: Maximise, Empower, Heighten, Extend, Spell Penetration, Greater Spell Penetration, Toughness, Spell Focus: Conjuration. Extend was the optional feat here which could be swapped to something else. I was a water savant (39 enchant, 38 necro/conj/evoc DCs iirc with the gear that I had) and could nuke anything (reflex saves are generally lower) and play the arcane role (instant kill and/or crowd control) almost any end game/epic quest.

    The trick here was the versatility, a few mobs have such high reflex saves that you'll see saves even with the (greater) evocation focus but being able to swap to instant kills (targets fort), holds (targets will), no save spells or debuff meant that I could stay a step ahead.

    To put it another way, +5% effectiveness with a select few spells (many bread and butter evocation spells don't have a save anyway) or +10% effectiveness with a wide variety of very useful spells (wail, disco ball, MHM, energy drain, waves, crushing despair, symbol of death, hypnotism were affected on my spell list iirc).

    I'm currently in the process of doing 3 wizard PLs before going back to sorcerer.

    Maybe a matter of perspective? If all you have is a hammer then everything looks like a nail but there's so much more to the sorcerer class than just blowing excrement up

    Edit: Demaril is right, if you go air then evo DCs are crucial but best not to go air on first life and rather go water (for raiding) or earth (for questing).
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  8. #8
    Community Member Miow's Avatar
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    My first life sorc was human and ice savant and pretty much similar to the above, now in his second life he is WF Air savant/ice secondary so i'm concrentrating on Evo focus mostly.

    Oh and btw i leveled him through to gianthold as a Fire savant then switched.
    Last edited by Miow; 06-05-2012 at 10:29 AM.

  9. #9
    Community Member drathdragon's Avatar
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    ok .. but... i couldn't get BOTH ?

    i mean... skipping Heighten and taking spell penetr and greater spell pen
    then i can have the DC +1 from past life feat + 1 more DC as spell focus feat.

    could i do that ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by drathdragon View Post
    ok .. but... i couldn't get BOTH ?

    i mean... skipping Heighten and taking spell penetr and greater spell pen
    then i can have the DC +1 from past life feat + 1 more DC as spell focus feat.

    could i do that ?
    Don't skip Heighten (unless you just use lv9 spells, not really doable). Skip something else.

    The sorcerer PL +1 DC to evocation is PASSIVE, means you don't have to waste a feat slot for it.
    The wizard one, +1 DC to every school, is ACTIVE, you have to waste a feat for it.

  11. #11
    Community Member Phidius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tid12 View Post
    Don't skip Heighten (unless you just use lv9 spells, not really doable). Skip something else.

    The sorcerer PL +1 DC to evocation is PASSIVE, means you don't have to waste a feat slot for it.
    The wizard one, +1 DC to every school, is ACTIVE, you get to spend a feat for it.
    Fixed for you in red... it's a privilege, not a curse.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phidius View Post
    Fixed for you in red... it's a privilege, not a curse.
    Eheh, indeed it is! My point was another, hope he get it anyway

  13. #13
    Community Member Isharah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drathdragon View Post
    i mean... skipping Heighten and taking spell penetr and greater spell pen
    then i can have the DC +1 from past life feat + 1 more DC as spell focus feat.
    Heighten is a must for any offensive caster.

    Suggest take your feats like this:
    Level 1 - Toughness
    Level 3 - Empower
    Level 6 - Maximize
    Level 9 - Spell Focus: Evocation
    Level 12 - Greater Spell Focus: Evocation
    Level 15 - Heighten Spell
    Level 18 - Spell Penetration

    You shouldn't worry so much about your evocation DCs. If you have difficulties, then go water savant, then you can maximize your polar ray and DoT spell damage, both of which do not require evocation DCs.

    No need to get the active sorc PL... it gives you +105 SP and a 10-charge elemental ray clicky. Not worth keeping at level 20.
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  14. #14
    Community Member wax_on_wax_off's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isharah View Post
    Heighten is a must for any offensive caster.

    Suggest take your feats like this:
    Level 1 - Toughness
    Level 3 - Empower
    Level 6 - Maximize
    Level 9 - Spell Focus: Evocation
    Level 12 - Greater Spell Focus: Evocation
    Level 15 - Heighten Spell
    Level 18 - Spell Penetration

    You shouldn't worry so much about your evocation DCs. If you have difficulties, then go water savant, then you can maximize your polar ray and DoT spell damage, both of which do not require evocation DCs.

    No need to get the active sorc PL... it gives you +105 SP and a 10-charge elemental ray clicky. Not worth keeping at level 20.
    I'd go human and pick up greater spell penetration, still better evo DCs compared to a WF but a decent caster all around. This is only relevant for an end game build, WF are easy button for leveling on a sorc (but you pay for it at end game by being pigeon holed into more or less 1 role).
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isharah View Post
    Level 1 - Toughness
    Level 3 - Empower
    Level 6 - Maximize
    Level 9 - Spell Focus: Evocation
    Level 12 - Greater Spell Focus: Evocation
    Level 15 - Heighten Spell
    Level 18 - Spell Penetration
    I always take heighten as soon as possible on my casters. Its not like you will have enough SP to consistently keep emp+max on at lvl6 even on a sorc. But even if you must take those that early, taking heighten AFTER spell focus feats just makes no sense IMHO. Heighten increases all your DCs and for most spells more than the SF/GSF.
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    Quote Originally Posted by good_ole_corwin View Post
    I always take heighten as soon as possible on my casters. Its not like you will have enough SP to consistently keep emp+max on at lvl6 even on a sorc. But even if you must take those that early, taking heighten AFTER spell focus feats just makes no sense IMHO. Heighten increases all your DCs and for most spells more than the SF/GSF.
    Empower + Maximize is for the SLAs and sometimes for Elite Boss fights.

  17. #17
    Community Member wax_on_wax_off's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tid12 View Post
    Empower + Maximize is for the SLAs and sometimes for Elite Boss fights.
    Heighten helps SLAs as much or more than empower at level 9+. I'd definitely plan for Heighten at level 9 and defer everything else accordingly.
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  18. #18
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    The most important first past life to pick up on a caster is the Wizard Past Life. The Passive portion grants +2 Spell Penetration and the Active feat is +1 to ALL your DC's, Evocation included.
    Last edited by Faent; 06-06-2012 at 05:33 AM.

  19. #19
    Community Member wax_on_wax_off's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faent View Post
    The most important first past life to pick up on a caster is the Wizard Past Life. The Passive portion grants +2 Spell Penetration and the Active feat is +1 to ALL your DC's, Evocation included. I would consider eating two +5 Hearts of Wood to convert to a 10/10 Wiz/Sorc, and then TR to pick up the wizard past life.
    10/10 wizard sorc will give a sorc PL as S comes before W (last time I checked).
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  20. #20
    The Hatchery vVvAiaynAvVv's Avatar
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    Sorcs are designed to be nukers...forget spell pen and concentrate on making your damage potential as high as it can be.

    That means spell focus and greater spell focus and all 3 past life feats means your damage spells will almost always do full damage.

    If you wanna make a CC/ insta death caster make a wizard.......I used to try to do everything on my sorc then I just went full damage and was way happier.

    Solid Fog is also nice because it has no save or spell pen check...but it's a tight squeeze...level four is usually the hardest spell level selection.

    A properly built sorc does absolutely insane damage.

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