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  1. #2761
    Ultimate Completionist
    2014 DDO Players Council
    Open Guild for All Founder - Hardcore

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    After reincarnating from the level cap, Fawngate starts another Tieffling Iconic life.

    (as a side note, Fawngate did some Legendary R10 healing as an Alchemist along the route)

    As others may walk down this same path (Iconic + Heroic Class = Double Past Life), the mandatory class taken at level one becomes an issue.
    {I have discussed above how to LR +1 that first level away, now its time to consider another path.}

    Once one gives up the capstone, it is understandable to consider splashing more levels.

    Cordovan show particular insight into the Alchemist class:

    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    The idea of a Cordovan build is an oxymoron, it's more of a sculpting (poorly) while playing (poorly) sort of thing. Here are a few thoughts I've experienced though, since it doesn't look like there's a lot of info for the OP yet:

    - Alchemist has an advantage on stat points, as you primarily need Intelligence and Constitution.
    - Since you have a high Int, you have a lot of skill points, nearing rogue, which allows for off-skill spend ok.
    - With a high Int, you can do Disable and Search pretty good, even though you have to take at least one level of Rogue to get trap skills unlocked. Keeping up with the Disable/Search game wasn't a problem at the earlier levels at least.
    - With Vile Chemist and at least 13 Dexterity you can get Single Weapon Fighting and mesh it decently with this tree.
    - With some planning, you can do traps, self-and-others-healing, and decent single weapon fighting attack speed and damage. Pretty well rounded for Hardcore. I'd recommend Quicken and Accelerate when you can get them.
    - Since you are limited in armor with Rogue and Alchemist, Armor Class and the resulting PRR loss can be an issue.
    - I found myself very well rounded for hardcore, and was well balanced for the most part, although I was a bit too squishy to survive, and died to an Arcane Skelly at level 6 due to not enough hit points/MRR to survive a blast.
    Quote Originally Posted by capsela View Post
    SWF has no dex requirement, just balance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    Indeed, I stand corrected. Mixed up SWF with Dodge. Also, I went human for the bonus feat and, since I have the +1 Racial AP, the one point spend in human to get a +4 action boost bonus to skills.


    So, one strong possibility for a Tieffling Iconic is:

    Bard 1 (mandatory) / Rogue 1 / Alchemist 18
    (As Cordovan theorizes, this is a true all-purpose build, and one of the few builds that naturally combines trapping with healing. If one is going down the trapper/healer path, an Alchemist is so much better than a Cleric.)

    Unlike a Sorcerer, Alchemists receive a large number of top-level spells, allowing one to forgo a few caster levels.


    Assuming one is going to take around 18ish levels of Alchemist, I gather up the following Metamagics as being highly useful for all three Alchemist trees:

    Accelerate (8 levels of Alchemist or Artificer)

    Enlarge, Empower, Maximize, Quicken (available from bonus alchemical feat list every four levels) although you might want to take these as regular feats. (Do try to avoid auto granted feats like Insightful Reflexes and Multitude of Missles).


    Bonus Alchemist Feats you might want to take could be:
    Battlefront Brew (Int to Simple Weapons) at level 4 bonus
    Liquid Luck (evasion) at level 12 bonus

    The level 24 feats Master of Spellvials (Bombardier Tree) or Master of Poisons (Vile Chemist Tree) surely would be on the most have list.



    So a build might look like this:

    Int max (all level ups in Int)
    Con 16
    Rest tossed around as desired ( thinking about any ranged feat requirements and tome usage)

    Level 1
    Iconic mandatory level 1
    Maximized Spell feat
    Tumble, Jump, Balance, and so forth skills

    Level 2
    Rogue level 1
    Introduce Disable Device and Open Lock

    Level 3
    Alchemist 1
    {Choose One:
    Bombardier Tree Empower Spell feat
    Or
    Vile Chemist Tree Point Blank Shot}
    Push Concentration, Spot, Search, Disable Device, Open Lock, Spellcraft and Use Magic Device for the next 18 levels

    Level 4
    Alchemist 2

    Level 5
    Alchemist 3

    Level 6
    Alchemist 4
    Quicken feat
    Battalion Brew (bonus feat)

    Level 7
    Alchemist 5

    Level 8
    Alchemist 6

    Level 9
    Alchemist 7
    Enlarge Spell feat

    Level 10
    Alchemist 8
    Accelerate Spell (bonus feat) (yes it is an alchemist bonus feat verified)
    Start placing skill points into heal as you have caught up with the other skills.

    Level 11
    Alchemist 9

    Level 12
    Alchemist 10
    Choose one
    Bomb Tree Spell Focus Conjuration feat (for Magister Twists)
    or
    Chemist Tree Quick Draw feat

    Level 13
    Alchemist 11

    Level 14
    Alchemist 12
    Liquid Luck (evasion) bonus feat

    Level 15
    Alchemist 13
    Simple Thrown Weapon Expertise Feat

    Put on your iconic gear, search your bank after leveling up Alchemist Iconic.

    Onward:

    Level 16
    Alchemist 14

    Level 17
    Alchemist 15

    Level 18
    Alchemist 16
    Liquid Courage (Int to Will Saves) bonus feat
    Choose one
    Bomb Tree Heighten Spell
    or
    Chemist Tree Rapid Shot

    Level 19
    Alchemist 17

    Level 20
    Alchemist 18

    Level 21
    Any feat

    Level 24
    Bomb tree Master of Spellvials
    Chemist tree Master of Poisons

    Level 25

    Level 26
    Epic _____ Spellpower Epic Destiny feat

    Level 27
    Ruin or catch up on Ranged feats

    Level 28
    Mass Frog or Doubleshot

    Level 29
    Arcane Pulse or Embodiment of Law

    Level 30
    Greater Ruin or catch up on Ranged feats
    Scion of the Plane of Fire or Arborea




    Don't forget a visit to the Borderlands for easy to farm weapons such as an Epic Sceptor of Glaciation (nice place to dump your extra named items when cleaning out your bank.
    Last edited by Silverleafeon; 02-25-2020 at 05:44 AM.

  2. #2762
    Ultimate Completionist
    2014 DDO Players Council
    Open Guild for All Founder - Hardcore

    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    11,204

    Default

    It is absolutely great that we have a new class that can effectively be both healing and blowing up things.
    A new style of the healer has emerged.
    One of the big issues with Alchemists has nothing at all to do with Alchemists.

    It is when a party composition lacks a tank or at least a "durable melee".
    Healing a party full of rabbits with glass cannons and paper armor is a joke.

    I played a pure paladin through R1 heroic and found that even with average gear that the build was very effective as a durable melee (call it a trying tanking build).
    I hit the intimidate button, the Sorcerer/Inquisitor does not die (would have otherwise) and I take a few hits, foes die, the quest moves on.

    Now to everyone credit, Fawngate was rocking a ton of Epic Past Lives, so it is not fair to say the players are at fault about lack of tanks.
    If anything, the Developers need to review more ways to make Tanks Cool, sort of like they just made Healers Cooler.
    Making Pure Palidans and Pure Fighters more viable as tanks was a good start.
    Last edited by Silverleafeon; 02-25-2020 at 08:18 AM.

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