# Thread: Shroud puzzles, no more patterns.

1. I'v elaways solved back to last row.. checked what was unlit in that row which would tell me which ones to hit in theat same last row and then work my way back the other way completing each row. There's only 5 solutions, and of coruse 2 mirror images on the 5X5...

There are bunch of ways to solve them easily, having many different methods posted allows all the people who think in various ways to pick the method that best suits their type of thinking. Kudos to those that are posting alternatives..

2. Originally Posted by MindCake
Actually, I know.
I just find it easier and faster to actually complete the last row, then solve up, rather than think of "what would it take to complete that" run to the row 1, enter the code there, and solve down.
If your solution can solve in 2 passes always and is simpler to remember, then go for it. My method always solves in 2 passes. There's only a so many possible combinations at the bottom row. Once you get the hang of it, it's really not that hard to "think" about it.

3. The way I solve the 5x5 is the following.

Step 1: Solve down from top row
Step 2: Check the pattern of the bottom row
Step 3: Duplicate the pattern from the bottom row in the top row by hitting tiles in the top row only.
Step 4: Solve down from the top row.

The puzzle always solves at the end of step 4.

Example 1:
At step 2 you see that the bottom row is OXOXO while the top row is OOOOO (solved in step 1).
In order to make the top row look like the bottom row you need to hit --HHH in the top row.
Just start from the left and move to the right and light one tile after another until all are correct.

Example 2:
At step 2 you see that the bottom row is XXXOO while the top row is OOOOO (solved in step 1).
In order to make the top row look like the bottom row you need to hit -H--- in the top row

Example 3:
At step 2 you see that the bottom row is XOXXO while the top row is OOOOO (solved in step 1).
In order to make the top row look like the bottom row you need to hit -HHHH in the top row

I checked this method against the other described and found you need on average a few less tile hits to solve the puzzle. I find this method simple because I don't have to remember any rules about symmetry etc. If I forget how the bottom line looks like I can always turn my toon head towards the bottom row and have another peak.

4. Peter, you are smart. Thank you for your tip. Last time I ran elite shroud and the group got stuck in a 5x5 puzzle. We had to abandon 2 chests because no one could solve it. Guess it will never happen again!

5. Necroing a bit - but I saw the link in his sig and thought I would see what it said.

For the OP - I ran this numerous times for a 5x5 and it looks like from the solve down position (ie you have already solved down to the bottom row). This is the point where your path diverges from the main other (and even the one other method mentioned in the thread) method for hitting certain lights in row 1.

I tested it and your method from that point takes from 10-12 moves including your reprep of the bottom row. The other method is in the same range 10-12 moves from that point. So there is no real advantage to using the either method other than what makes sense to you.

Just thought I would point that out so people don't think any one method is superior. That said the only thing with fewer steps is using a solver but in the time it takes to load those up with the config I can usually be done the puzzle using either of the methods.....so.....yeah no solver for me.

6. Originally Posted by MindCake
So I hate that way enough that I spent some hours coming up with something better, or at least less memorization dependent.
.
Outstanding post!
My only regret is that I am limited to giving you only +1 on reputation.

Very nice work. Once you practice it a few times, that's pure gold right there.

7. Originally Posted by Spoonwelder
Necroing a bit - but I saw the link in his sig and thought I would see what it said.
Thanks for the bump

Originally Posted by Spoonwelder
For the OP - I ran this numerous times for a 5x5 and it looks like from the solve down position (ie you have already solved down to the bottom row). This is the point where your path diverges from the main other (and even the one other method mentioned in the thread) method for hitting certain lights in row 1.

I tested it and your method from that point takes from 10-12 moves including your reprep of the bottom row. The other method is in the same range 10-12 moves from that point. So there is no real advantage to using the either method other than what makes sense to you.

Just thought I would point that out so people don't think any one method is superior. That said the only thing with fewer steps is using a solver but in the time it takes to load those up with the config I can usually be done the puzzle using either of the methods.....so.....yeah no solver for me.
Actually, to say it's in the same 10-12 moves range is a step UP from what I claimed in the opening post.
But then again, I consider running on the lower rows (instead of precision jumping to particular spots) to be a part of the technique, so it probably takes like 50 button hits total, so I never really counted the essential ones...

It didn't even occur to me, since the only advantage this method was meant to have is that there's just one detail to remember - if it used twice the button hits, and took half again as long as the other methods I'd still be doing it...
Luckily it doesn't, so in addition to being confident I can handle any puzzle the shroud throws at me, I can get lots and lots of cheers and the like.

8. the description of how to solve the circle makes absolutely no sense to me i guess i'll just keep using the method i used before which worked well for me.

3x3 solve down solve up solve down is pretty nifty. thanks

5x5 once i got the hang of it, way easier, altho asymmetrical patterns still confusing to me. thank you!

9. The Shroud puzzles are my nemesis, and I do "Lights Out" and similar puzzles for fun.

But, give me the pressure of the Rainbow DOOOOOM! Wall, and I can't do them.

So, I have two things to tell you:

1) Thanks for ruining my lights out puzzles forever, as they've been trivialized.. :P

2) I now do not dread the Shroud.

10. Originally Posted by Fomori
The methods I use are similar but slightly different.

3x3.
For this one I solve down, then look at the bottom row.
For each spot that is not lit step on the spot on the top row in the same column, plus the spots to each side. Then solve down

[S: Step here. O: Lit up. X. Not lit up]

S S O
O O O
X O O

S S S
O O O
O X O

O S S
O O O
O O X

5x5.
This is done same as the 3x3 with the exception that you ignore the right 2 columns when you worry about the bottom row.
This is the correct method, as it is based on mathematical reduction. For completeness, I'll fill in the remaining cases.

O O S
O O O
X X O

S O O
O O O
O X X

S O S
O O O
X O X

O S O
O O O
X X X

11. Originally Posted by dlsidhe
Thanks for ruining my lights out puzzles forever, as they've been trivialized.. :P
You're welcome :P

This is the correct method, as it is based on mathematical reduction.
Uh... yeah. But any method that ends with all the lights on is a correct one.

And it may be bold of me, but I don't see any aspect in which the way of the chart is better than mine, other than being more widespread.