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  1. #41
    Community Member Entelech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by svinja View Post
    We don't have the same problem with horc wizards - people simply don't make them.
    Actually, I think one of Sigtrent's Request-a-Build guys was for a HOrc Pale Master Battleweezard. You see them around from time to time. People sometimes stare and point.
    Give a man a fish, and he demands two more tomorrow.
    Teach a man to fish, and he'll leave to find somebody who'll just give him a fish.
    Beat him unconscious with the fish, and it's comedy.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by shadowspeaker View Post
    The main issue is the split of Force and Recon into 2 lines. In the past people would spec in Force and hey great I heal better too. Now you have to invest a ton of ap for a set of spells that only effect a fraction of the player base.

    It would be nice if they merged them back.
    Very good point. Don't think they will though now we have artis :/

    @MrCow such great ideas! Mix it up in tank land and make us think!

    @Mmaha I love my WF barb - don't TR him - keep him WF! WF for the cause!!!! I've healed your WF barb and he's totally fine. (Mine on the other hand... LOL )...
    ~ Khyber ~
    ~ Melicient ~ Melianny ~ Melinator ~ Melizzic ~ Melton ~ Melvanwy ~ Mellant ~ Melangst ~

  3. #43
    Community Member Vellrad's Avatar
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    On my dwarf wiz, I'm not carrying reconstruct, except for kobold island.
    I can heal people with heal scrolls, in hardcore emergency situation however, but you knew well what you was doing when rolling WF melee, I'm not going to spend plat on you, not to mention even more precious inventory space.
    On my WF wiz however, I migth throw a reconstruction if nessesary, of course, assuming I will spot that someone needs it (very low chance).


    Quote Originally Posted by Sarisa View Post
    If Harm scrolls were readily available, we would see far more PM tanks for a lot of content.
    Harm scrolls are avaible in house J collector. Fact, they ain't common, but I used to carry 15 of them, just to hand divine, you know, just in case.
    Quote Originally Posted by Originally Posted by Random Person #2 View Post
    People who exploit bugs in code are cheaters cheaters cheaters. And they are big fat ****yheads too.

  4. #44
    Community Member Sarisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vellrad View Post
    Harm scrolls are avaible in house J collector. Fact, they ain't common, but I used to carry 15 of them, just to hand divine, you know, just in case.
    2 Mark of the Keeper, which is also a Cannith crafting collectible. The collector can only be accessed by a PM in form. While there is a source besides drops, it's not something that any random Cleric or FvS can get.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Entelech View Post
    Actually, I think one of Sigtrent's Request-a-Build guys was for a HOrc Pale Master Battleweezard. You see them around from time to time. People sometimes stare and point.
    And that's fine, people should play what they want. As long as they don't proceed to post a whine thread on the forums about horcs needing a buff because they are too heavily penalized by low int... And WF healing complaints are exactly the same.

  6. #46
    Community Member Vellrad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarisa View Post
    2 Mark of the Keeper, which is also a Cannith crafting collectible. The collector can only be accessed by a PM in form. While there is a source besides drops, it's not something that any random Cleric or FvS can get.
    For me it always seem to be my responsibility to carry harm scrolls, not clerics'.
    Quote Originally Posted by Originally Posted by Random Person #2 View Post
    People who exploit bugs in code are cheaters cheaters cheaters. And they are big fat ****yheads too.

  7. #47
    Community Member rophez2's Avatar
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    Default divines need to quit crying

    Alright I only read the first page due to lack of time, but unless all the divines that were crying about healing WF magically changed their minds in the other two pages, then you all need to quit crying like a bunch of divas. Yes, WF are slightly more difficult to heal. That does not mean you should not heal them or you should let them die. It means you just have to heal them a bit more, all of you multiclass clerics and melee fvs need to invest a bit more heavily in sp and you'll be fine. My fvs has healed a WF tank through all raids and epics. WF melees are not the problem, healers who want to claim they have "epic dps" or "I'm better cause I have evasion" are, a healer doesn't need evasion you just make sure you have 500+ HP, toss yourself 1 heal when you take a bomb to the face, and your good. Quit pretending that the WF melees are the problem, your Gimp builds are the problem.

  8. #48
    Community Member Vellrad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rophez2 View Post
    Alright I only read the first page due to lack of time, but unless all the divines that were crying about healing WF magically changed their minds in the other two pages, then you all need to quit crying like a bunch of divas. Yes, WF are slightly more difficult to heal. That does not mean you should not heal them or you should let them die. It means you just have to heal them a bit more, all of you multiclass clerics and melee fvs need to invest a bit more heavily in sp and you'll be fine. My fvs has healed a WF tank through all raids and epics. WF melees are not the problem, healers who want to claim they have "epic dps" or "I'm better cause I have evasion" are, a healer doesn't need evasion you just make sure you have 500+ HP, toss yourself 1 heal when you take a bomb to the face, and your good. Quit pretending that the WF melees are the problem, your Gimp builds are the problem.
    Making a character which's purpose is to make everyone's life harder is a bad idea, so as demanding everyone to be your personal nanny.
    Quote Originally Posted by Originally Posted by Random Person #2 View Post
    People who exploit bugs in code are cheaters cheaters cheaters. And they are big fat ****yheads too.

  9. #49
    Community Member rophez2's Avatar
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    Default WF isn't a problem

    Quote Originally Posted by Vellrad View Post
    Making a character which's purpose is to make everyone's life harder is a bad idea, so as demanding everyone to be your personal nanny.
    I'm not saying a fleshy isn't preferable, I'm just saying that people should be able to play the game how they want and not be forced to deal with people who don't understand that playing a WF is fine and doesn't add much trouble to the group. If you have a divine with a solid build and you actually know how to play the class, a WF is not a problem to heal. If you insist on playing a divine with a sub-par build or you are not good at playing a divine then state so before the quest starts and tell the group that you can't handle healing a WF. Just a warning, a majority of people will laugh at you and find a real healer.

    [Edit] and by no means do you have to be a nanny bot to heal a WF.

  10. #50
    Community Member Vellrad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rophez2 View Post
    I'm not saying a fleshy isn't preferable, I'm just saying that people should be able to play the game how they want and not be forced to deal with people who don't understand that playing a WF is fine and doesn't add much trouble to the group. If you have a divine with a solid build and you actually know how to play the class, a WF is not a problem to heal. If you insist on playing a divine with a sub-par build or you are not good at playing a divine then state so before the quest starts and tell the group that you can't handle healing a WF. Just a warning, a majority of people will laugh at you and find a real healer.

    [Edit] and by no means do you have to be a nanny bot to heal a WF.
    For most of time splashing divine is not gimping.
    I'd rather take 18cleric/2monk with 80AC, evasion, high DCs and other yummy things than a cookie cutter lvl20 pure cleric.
    Quote Originally Posted by Originally Posted by Random Person #2 View Post
    People who exploit bugs in code are cheaters cheaters cheaters. And they are big fat ****yheads too.

  11. #51
    Community Member rophez2's Avatar
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    Default point?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vellrad View Post
    For most of time splashing divine is not gimping.
    I'd rather take 18cleric/2monk with 80AC, evasion, high DCs and other yummy things than a cookie cutter lvl20 pure cleric.
    ... and what exactly is the point of a cleric with 80 AC? They can never keep aggro over a melee to tank. The only point of a high AC cleric cleric is soloing. By taking a 18/2 instead of a pure you are hurting your group more than you would by taking a WF tank. And as I stated before if a healer has a good build and decent HP its not worth it to take evasion. Also a pure cleric would have higher DCs. And what other yummy things? Less SP? Fewer spells? No capstone? Dps so low its near pointless?

  12. #52
    Community Member Jaid314's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rophez2 View Post
    Also a pure cleric would have higher DCs.
    no they won't. 2 monk splash gives you water stance, which boosts your wisdom (and therefore your DC). 2 more cleric levels gives you capstone, which does not include anything for DCs, or wisdom.

    pure clerics will have a better caster level, and therefore more spell pen. they'll also hit for just a bit more with some of their cure/inflict spells, and have more SP. but more DC is definitely not one of the things pure clerics get.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by rophez2 View Post
    I'm not saying a fleshy isn't preferable, I'm just saying that people should be able to play the game how they want and not be forced to deal with people who don't understand that playing a WF is fine and doesn't add much trouble to the group. If you have a divine with a solid build and you actually know how to play the class, a WF is not a problem to heal. If you insist on playing a divine with a sub-par build or you are not good at playing a divine then state so before the quest starts and tell the group that you can't handle healing a WF. Just a warning, a majority of people will laugh at you and find a real healer.

    [Edit] and by no means do you have to be a nanny bot to heal a WF.
    This post is hypocritical. You're saying the WF fighter can play what he wants but the healer can't. Some healer builds have empower healing and feats that make healing WF capable. Others don't want to play that way and spend their feats on other things. I play with a 12/6/2 bow FvS in elite vale quests and he can heal a party perfectly especially if they've invested in healing amp. The WF with no amp will probably die unless we want to wait around for some healbot to join.
    Cannith - Noehealz, Protectorjon, Noebuffs, Mortion

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by morticianjohn View Post
    This post is hypocritical. You're saying the WF fighter can play what he wants but the healer can't. Some healer builds have empower healing and feats that make healing WF capable. Others don't want to play that way and spend their feats on other things. I play with a 12/6/2 bow FvS in elite vale quests and he can heal a party perfectly especially if they've invested in healing amp. The WF with no amp will probably die unless we want to wait around for some healbot to join.
    Or have nice guildies or friends to heal them?

    I don't understand the fuss about WF healing either. I mean I've met plenty of awful fleshies to heal. My recent favourite is a sub 600 hp monk who insists on Horry tanking - quite nice DR but atrocious healing amp. (and a belief that dw stops disctigrate but that's a separate matter) .

    It's the fleshies with nothing that get me. I think WF just get targeted because they're WF. But toss a heal and test before people say anything snipey.
    ~ Khyber ~
    ~ Melicient ~ Melianny ~ Melinator ~ Melizzic ~ Melton ~ Melvanwy ~ Mellant ~ Melangst ~

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vellrad View Post
    For me it always seem to be my responsibility to carry harm scrolls, not clerics'.
    Now this makes sense.. your palemaster requires something special for the extra healing if its needed so you provide it rather than expecting others to. Ya the cleric or FVS probably could carry harm in a spell slot, but what are they giving up?

    It's a bit like the argument for all casters to carry reconstruct over some dps spell. Let the WF chip in some repair wands, scrolls or maybe just a few SP potions to help out the healer. The healers problem with healing WF likely comes from lack of sharing resources, seems a lot of people will horde SP pots for their own alts or to sell at high prices on auction.

  16. #56
    Community Member redraider's Avatar
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    Weak healers don't deserve to heal WF! Or something controversial like that...

    I have a 20 FVS and 20 CLR and neither has any issue keeping anyone healed. So I hit wf for a little less than the massive overhealing that you typically see with fleshies. So what. The only quest it even comes into play on is eLOB these days.

    Quit being racists and get out there and grind!
    Captain's Crew - Ghallanda

  17. #57
    Community Member Thlargir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by porq View Post
    Healing amp is like having +threat.

    The more you're willing to invest in it, the more the healers are willing to heal you.
    .
    This!

    The UI helps reinforce this, it is simply depressing to fire up RS aura and have a cloud of nice bold green double digit numbers float upward except for that small, skinny single digit floating up from the you know who...

  18. #58
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    Ok it's been a few days but I read all(or most) of the replies.

    1 Just because I said I don't have healing amp gear does not mean I will not get it. I am in the prosess of gringing for it. So don't jump to the conclusion that I think I shouldn't.

    2 Yes I have a lvl20 pure cleric and I do just fine healing WF tanks as well. But I have never yelled at my friend the WF wizard for helping me out by reconstructing the WF in the group when he can.

    3 So a random reconstruct constitutes a "nanny"? Thats all fine and well the next time your cleric/fvs gets mobbed by trash and I'm on my dps barb(that also happens to be WF) dont expect me to come running over there and pull them off you/kill them. "How many nannies do you need?"

    And as for those who stopped reading at "I don't have any healing amp." I keep checking my christmas tree and my mail and for some reason the epic fairies aint dropping me any epic gear. So until I get some from grinding I won't miss you when you read no further.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by smeggy1384 View Post
    Now this makes sense.. your palemaster requires something special for the extra healing if its needed so you provide it rather than expecting others to. Ya the cleric or FVS probably could carry harm in a spell slot, but what are they giving up?

    It's a bit like the argument for all casters to carry reconstruct over some dps spell. Let the WF chip in some repair wands, scrolls or maybe just a few SP potions to help out the healer. The healers problem with healing WF likely comes from lack of sharing resources, seems a lot of people will horde SP pots for their own alts or to sell at high prices on auction.
    I totally agree and I'm not above keeping a few pots on hand for the healers jus cuz I know its going to be a little more resource intensive. And yet i still get complaints. I even gave one cleris 3 major pots before the quest and they complained becouse they had to use 2 of them. ***?

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by redraider View Post
    Weak healers don't deserve to heal WF! Or something controversial like that...

    I have a 20 FVS and 20 CLR and neither has any issue keeping anyone healed. So I hit wf for a little less than the massive overhealing that you typically see with fleshies. So what. The only quest it even comes into play on is eLOB these days.

    Quit being racists and get out there and grind!
    Heh.

    For controversial, just because I've been dying to say it and I have 8 capped healers of various flavors, from my WF barbarian who I love to play:

    Bite my shiny metal ass.
    ~ Khyber ~
    ~ Melicient ~ Melianny ~ Melinator ~ Melizzic ~ Melton ~ Melvanwy ~ Mellant ~ Melangst ~

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