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Thread: New PvP System

  1. #21
    Community Member herzkos's Avatar
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    Along with others, I do not believe guild renown should have any part in pvp.
    It would be way too easy to exploit as already mentioned.

    And I concur with removing pvp from the taverns. If necessary, put in another waystation
    in each house like the airship towers that will take someone directly to a pvp lounge.
    The important part of this idea is that the pvp chatter is not spamming general chat in the harbor.

    Since it seems that 9 times out of 10 when I load into a tavern, it's loc ends up i2049 or i2050, moving
    pvpers to a different instance could also cut down on lag .

    I think the incoming "auto-grouping" function would be handy for pvp matches. Making that
    the only way to join a pvp party would curtail some of the exploitation issues that I and others
    have with gear/renown.
    I'm not sure it's a great idea but I would suggest making(using) the existing maps for f2p pvp while
    having other maps that you need to own the pack to do pvp in. For example, 2 parties in the catacombs quest
    where you have to climb the steps. One starts at the top and the other at the bottom.
    or a 3 or 4 party combat extravaganza in von 5.

    Another idea could be a capture the flag game held in the Vale of Twilight. the flags are on the top of the lookout
    points of the gnolls. Hehe. swimming could be an issue for assaulting the other teams flag but then again, you could go the
    "death from above" routine and try to feather fall assault the enemies tree fort.

    not a personal fan of pvp but if it makes ddo/turbine/wb more money, I'd say go for it.
    Last edited by herzkos; 05-03-2012 at 02:05 PM.
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  2. #22
    Community Member xxHazexx's Avatar
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    Post General Ideas about the re work instead.

    New Ideas


    Suggestion box:
    • This would provide something new for veterans to take part in instead of the same tedious to do list and bring a whole new audience to the game as well for players that like a good pvp system.

      Max lvl caps: 4, 6, 12, 18, 20

      PvP entrances would be located in P2P adventure pack wilderness areas and have separate instanced maps and 1 free pvp at lvl 4 like korthos as a tutorial to newer players to learn about the system.

      Have guild renown spawn every 5 hours on a odd hour that way no time zone has the advantage over the other.

      Would generate revenue with more store purchases

      Classes are Not balanced but every class has different advantages at different levels like a lvl 6 barb and a lvl 6 wizard the odds for the casters at low lvl are low for winning but still possible.
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  3. #23
    Community Member Havok.cry's Avatar
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    I am not a fan of PvP, but it does have a niche in this game. I would not mind cosmetics as pvp rewards, but would draw the line at actual gear. Renown gain in PvP would not bother me much if it was something like heroic deeds for a solo match, the 150 pt reward for 6 man teams, and the 500 pt reward for twelve man match.

    I would like to see many quest maps be used as PvP arenas. Also wildernesses. Both including trash mobs, but not bosses, both allied and enemy.

    I would also think that rather than pvp missions, they should have pvevp missions. By that I mean two groups enter the quest, in seperate, but linked instances. Then everything one party does makes it harder for the other party. For example, first group clears room A before second group does, and second group's room A gets double spawns. Second group fight through the mobs but finds a secret door that first group missed. Inside is the master control for the traps in the next hall, disabling it activates additional traps in whatever room first group is in at the time. I would use a random dungeon generater for this. Both teams would be able to reach the end and recieve their reward. This would eliminate the inherent frustration of defeat that comes with normal PvP, and allow many more to enjoy it.
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  4. #24
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    PvP giving PvE bonuses is, again, too easy to exploit.

    But making a PvP pack might be interesting - to once and for all see if PvP is worth the effort.

    PvP giving PvP benefits is fine by me. Alternative guild renown ranking system, or PvP only feats/abilities/items/whatever.
    It's definitely an N-word.

  5. #25
    Community Member Postumus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dandonk View Post
    PvP giving PvE bonuses is, again, too easy to exploit.

    But making a PvP pack might be interesting - to once and for all see if PvP is worth the effort.

    PvP giving PvP benefits is fine by me. Alternative guild renown ranking system, or PvP only feats/abilities/items/whatever.
    Yeah a small PvP pack with a wide open explorer area and maybe a couple 2-6 person challenges might be a good way to gauge how popular something like that would be without devoting a ton of resources to it. Obviously with everything going toward the expansion - er - update 14, it would have to be after that.

  6. #26
    Community Member Rubiconn's Avatar
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    i personally do not participate in PVP, I just dont find it that interesting. But there are some who enjoy it and if it benefits the game overall then have at it.

    My suggestion for any kind of pvp reward system would be like favor. You dont get PVE favor but a special PVP favor that will unlock specific rewards, access to new PVP packs etc to satiate your PVP addiction.

    I would like to see separate instances for PVP and I like the suggestion of a teleport type device similar to the air ship stations.

    For a tryout the devs could copy an area like vale and try it out as a free for all PVP enviroment. They could create different sections that have min/max levels to keep it fair. If you get enough PVP favor you can go to a higher area to try your luck against the big boys etc.

    Cosmetic rewards would be good too like getting a new scar on you toon or armor skins.
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  7. #27
    Community Member Postumus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rubiconn View Post

    Cosmetic rewards would be good too like getting a new scar on you toon or armor skins.
    cool idea. or bone necklace or something.

  8. #28
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xxHazexx View Post
    I wasn't making a reference to going into the lobster and hopping from a balcony i meant the CtF maps and Arena's their pretty fun if you can get the guildies to come and other geared players that don't pws, neg lvl or dispell you.
    Most players dont know those exist. In fact, Ive run into daily PVPers who didnt know they existed.

    Seems like each player has their list of "cheap tactics" they dont like. They are usually the tactics that can be used to kill their build. I say keep it open. There are no cheap tactics. Theres no way to block everything that can be done to a toon and there are enough powerful abilities to go around where all of them cant be hoarded on the same build.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  9. #29
    Community Member esheep's Avatar
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    I think this would be pretty cool... I also think that most of the negative thoughts about PvP in this game deal with how it's been handled in taverns...

    To add to this, I'd like to see a giant airship that is an arena, and let's make some of those ginormous challenge areas into PvP arena's -- I want to do some form of PvP in Rushmore's Mansion....

    --

    As far as renown goes, make it dependent on ranking within the leaderboards maybe? This might make it less exploitable...

    I think people need to remember, renown isn't just the name of our guild leveling system, it's actually a word that has a meaning... ie "widespread and of high repute" or "fame" if you're at the top of the leaderboards, any kind of leaderboard (save that for renown...) it makes a bit of sense that you'd be generating some fame.
    Last edited by esheep; 05-03-2012 at 10:07 PM. Reason: adding thoughts on renown...
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  10. #30
    Community Member wax_on_wax_off's Avatar
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    The sort of PvP that I've always wanted to see added to DDO is one in which killing another player isn't the primary objective. The reason for this is that D&D (and hence DDO) isn't balanced for 1v1 PvP matches.

    2 main ideas to work this:
    • PvP Quest: the objective of the scenario is for each team to destroy the opponents' heavily guarded structures at opposing corners of the map. Players characters' are assisted by allied heroes and AI-controlled fighters.
    • Hardcore/PvP/PD/RP/low magic server: Designed as the *only* niche server needed for DDO (with the assumption that there isn't enough interest to support niche servers for each audience). Non-pvp-ers will be able to avoid PvP if they don't want to engage in it but some exposure will be necessary (~once per life for example or 1%).


    To other posters here remember that a moderator recently posted that posting ~"I don't like PvP" in a thread that involves a specific suggestion regarding PvP is off topic and can get an infraction.
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  11. #31
    Community Member Postumus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wax_on_wax_off View Post
    The sort of PvP that I've always wanted to see added to DDO is one in which killing another player isn't the primary objective. The reason for this is that D&D (and hence DDO) isn't balanced for 1v1 PvP matches.

    2 main ideas to work this:
    • PvP Quest: the objective of the scenario is for each team to destroy the opponents' heavily guarded structures at opposing corners of the map. Players characters' are assisted by allied heroes and AI-controlled fighters.

    I like that one. I would play that. That's also why I like the idea of PvP challenges where the goal isn't so much to kill the other player as beat the other player. Perhaps you could kill the other players kobolds so yours could mine faster.

    But as someone else pointed out, the rewards might be difficult to figure out since how do you account for multi-boxing? Playing merely for 'braggin rights' doesn't interest me.

  12. #32
    Community Member wax_on_wax_off's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Postumus View Post
    I like that one. I would play that. That's also why I like the idea of PvP challenges where the goal isn't so much to kill the other player as beat the other player. Perhaps you could kill the other players kobolds so yours could mine faster.

    But as someone else pointed out, the rewards might be difficult to figure out since how do you account for multi-boxing? Playing merely for 'braggin rights' doesn't interest me.
    Integrate the PvP quest into the new quest system (that is being released with the expansion) and provide some sort of reward only when using that system, you never know who you will be pitted against so you can hardly rely on them to let you get an easy win. Rewards could be anything from guild renown, place on leaderboards, experience or other items (though at the same time no reward is needed).

    It should be noted that PvP is possible in my suggestion it is just that it isn't the primary objective. Your team can never make a single hero kill and still easily win the quest by helping the creeps get to the other base to destroy the other teams base. However, I suggested 3 balances to make a variety of classes valuable in the above thread (fix stealth in PvP, make structures immune to spells or ranged weapons and make friendly creeps vulnerable to friendly fire).
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  13. #33
    Community Member gerardIII's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xxHazexx View Post
    What are your thoughts?
    No.

    I want more PvP as much as I want Rogue to be spelled Rouge.

  14. #34
    Community Member Dagolar's Avatar
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    I would never play PvP in DDO so long as it's just free-for-all or the maps are as shoddy as some of the current ones.
    But if a pack came out with unique playstyles (such as exampled in the OP), winnable elements (cosmetic elements, or otherwise, but nothing that notably affects PvE), and solid, easy to navigate yet tactically intricate maps, then I'd be interested enough.

    Alternatively: Create a pack that has the ability to go both into PvE and PvP instances. PvP grants a bit more (ingredients, progress, etc), but is also more dangerous or intense or less farmable solely due to the PvP elements.
    Sure, it'd be a pack that'd have to be carefully planned, but even if the PvP part fails to pull interest, it'd still end up solid in the long run.
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    Fly? That would break every quest in the game. You would see folks falling from the sky in Korthos and dying. It would be a rain of newbs.
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  15. #35
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wax_on_wax_off View Post
    [*]PvP Quest: the objective of the scenario is for each team to destroy the opponents' heavily guarded structures at opposing corners of the map. Players characters' are assisted by allied heroes and AI-controlled fighters.
    One of the best versions Ive played of this type of model is alterac valley in WOW, in its earlier days. Here was a PVP zone I could play a full on heal specced toon in. Our premade group would roll around together and either be full defense (defending our NPC) or full offense (destroying their NPC). Each side had a raid boss style NPC that was the main objective.

    Couple things that made this work.

    1. Opposing teams could not talk to eachother. There was no "20 seconds of combat followed by 20 minutes of back and forth trash talking".

    2. Just about any type of build or spec had value. Most PVP games degenerate into "burst DPS builds = /auto-victory" but this type of PVP is an exception.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  16. #36
    2014 DDO Players Council Flavilandile's Avatar
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    Ok, with the new rules, that's going to be interesting to watch.

    Quote Originally Posted by xxHazexx View Post
    My thoughts on a new system, after leaving the game and coming back still thinking that turbine still really has a shiny gem on there hands and developed one of the greatest games to exist the only thing thats truly missing from the game is a good pvp system with the lack of content which i understand is being worked on and i can be patient.
    Turbine designed a game based on D&D. D&D is a Roleplaying Game, that is a cooperative team game.
    It's not a game where the objective is to kill other players, the objective is to cooperate with them to reach objectives.
    PvP is not missing from the game, it's there, in a lot of taverns, but the only one used for PvP is the Lobster Brawling Pit, all the other Tavern PvP Zone are empty.

    The vast minority of the DDO players are not interested in PvP. Let's see, I'm a member of the largest guild on Ghallanda, It's an European guild that survived 1 Server Transfer ( from Boldrei to Keeper ) and the European Shutdown. Out of the 100+ players there's less than 10 that actually engage in PvP at all. ( I'm not even considering doing PvP regularly, just jumping in the pit from time to time )
    That should give a small idea where the majority of the players stand about PvP in DDO.

    Now lets discuss the suggestions :

    Quote Originally Posted by xxHazexx View Post
    PvP System

    Some general thoughts, players of course would have the options to "cue up" for pvp and then for those that choose not to would never have too.
    It's queue, as in make a queue... or pile behind one another for a free spot. But making PvP queue in DDO would be pointless there's not enough people doing PvP at a given time for a queue to form up.

    Quote Originally Posted by xxHazexx View Post
    Incentives: Players that choose to pvp would have the options for added bonus to guild renown, Some sort of leaderboards for the group cue and solo cue, provided daily challenges for the pvp system, medals that you could trade for gear, trade-ins for different weapon skins? ingrediants, anyway you understand what im getting at here.
    As already stated by others, Renown for PvP would be exploited so much that it would be removed fairly quickly.
    PvP should not bring more reward that having the satisfaction of waving the e-peen of the people that do it, I'll grant the Leaderboard that should have been there since PvP was introduced in game, as it's one of the never futhfilled promise of the Early DDO days. ( but as we are going to see Druids soon, maybe the PvP Leaderboard is not far behind )

    Quote Originally Posted by xxHazexx View Post
    Solo or Group
    Players would have the options to cue up solo or group that way the groups can give guilds a chance to stack up renown and a chance to play together towards other guilds.

    Games

    Ship defense: Maybe have sort of a "Battleship" field so to speak when the match starts each ship would hover over the teams base with a ladder and the goal would be to invade each others base and successfully grab a guild flag and carry it back to the opposing teams airship "capture the flag" this would provide a good defense as well as a good offense for the opposing teams so it would be balanced.


    Cover your bases: Players would have the opportunity to have a team death match with other players across the playing field players would have to get past like maybe npc guards as well to invade another base and the player to have survive the longest would have successfully captured the teams base and scored a point.
    DDO wasn't thought as a game with PvP, as such expanding PvP so much would require lots of development time.
    The only way to repay for that development time would be by selling it as an expansion... I'm not sure there will be enough people interested in buying such an expansion for Turbine to cover the development costs required by putting PvP as one of the main game component instead of an afterthought. Furthermore, D&D Classes are not balanced for PvP, as the game is cooperative. Having a PvP increased presence would require class rebalancing... ( ok, call that nerf, as there will be huge nerfs )

    All this combined ( class rebalancing and more present PvP ) would just lead long standing players to quit the game and in the end hurt Turbine bottom line.

    Quote Originally Posted by xxHazexx View Post
    Free for all: A good place to relax for any tired of the grind for xp or loots player in ddo, I understand you pain so what a better place to come and unwind? Bring your friends and lets have a massive death match this would also give turbine the ability to work on bigger instances with more players with the new physics engine maybe for say live action events.[/LIST]
    DDO is not designed to allow massive battlefields...
    Talk to all those that have been there in the early days of DDO... when we had GM events, Just think about it : during one guild event in Europe ( yes a guild only event ) we spawned a new instance of the area we were in everywhere we went in the public areas. There was about 30/40 people from the guild and the usual European background at that time... So I can with certainty say that any public area with more than 50 to 80 people in it will spawn a second instance to split the charge, how can you do massive things with such a design ?
    To add more insight, if you force your area ( as it happened [ and was recommanded even by the GM ] in some events, I can provide screenies of a filled Phiarlan theater ) along with many other, you'll end up in a slide show ( framerate at 0.5 or less ), fighting under these conditions is sheer luck at best, instant death at worst [ been there done that [ Spellsword Auctions, Marketplace Tent Blowing, and yet another players and GM driven event in Europe ].

    Quote Originally Posted by Memnir View Post
    The best change to PvP would be putting it in it's own instance - and out of the public taverns.
    Along with the PvP Leaderboard ( now that they have a working challenge leaderboard, it shouldn't be hard to make a PvP one ), that's about the only change that might get my approval : put the PvP in a PvP arena, somewhere in Stormreach, with it's own instance and chatroom, so that it won't clutter the Lobster chat.

    Ps : yes my join date shows August 2010... but I've been playing in Europe since Spring 2006 before that.
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  17. #37
    Community Member Forzah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flavilandile View Post
    The vast minority of the DDO players are not interested in PvP. Let's see, I'm a member of the largest guild on Ghallanda, It's an European guild that survived 1 Server Transfer ( from Boldrei to Keeper ) and the European Shutdown. Out of the 100+ players there's less than 10 that actually engage in PvP at all. ( I'm not even considering doing PvP regularly, just jumping in the pit from time to time )
    That should give a small idea where the majority of the players stand about PvP in DDO.
    The uninterest in PvP is mainly due to the very limited current PvP system and the imbalance between classes. With easily accessible game modes, which do not require making groups yourself, and with interesting rewards, you will see that this vast minority will quickly become larger. I think this may even become a quarter of the playerbase, and even more depending on the rewards. If there is some way to track stats (kills, deaths, damage done), then you will get a very competitive environment.

  18. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by xxHazexx View Post
    What are your thoughts?

    Just some more food for thought, Omm Nom Nom Nom.
    My thoughts are as follows. Go back to WoW.

    Everything else was covered in this thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Memnir View Post
    I think that there should never be any kind of tangible reward in DDO associated with PvP. Including renown. The best change to PvP would be putting it in it's own instance - and out of the public taverns.
    Agreed 100% and Hell yes.
    Last edited by LeslieWest_GuitarGod; 05-06-2012 at 04:28 AM.


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  19. #39
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    I would like to see some content added for PVP but I can also appreciate that any bonuses granted from PVP would be unfair to those who dislike PVP. IMHO, there is a simple fix for this. As it stands, ship bonuses would give far to great an edge in PVP for those with higher level ships. So have the PVP area strip you of all ship buffs upon entering the PVP arena.

    For rewards, players would get the ability to add PVP buffs to their ship, or instead of a ship, maybe give them access to a public NPC that you can get buffs from but only as you earn them through PVP. This way the rewards are pointless for those that dislike PVP but gives PVPers somthing to work towards. Just my two cents, and for those snobs that think anyone who likes PVP shouldn't be in the game, go back to LARPing.

  20. #40
    Community Member Purgatory's Avatar
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    Congo Bowl is a 4v4 very well regulated pvp event that is giving away 20,000 TP and registration been open for a while now, only a few days are currently left to get in. As it stands we have only 5 registered teams out of the 16 spots that are up for grabs at no cost to the participants.

    If I can’t fill all 16 spots, which are only 32 players, with an incentive like 20,000 TP up for grabs and it’s free to enter then what kind of message does that send Turbine? You want pvp to be better? Maybe try doing something about it. Come out and support the Congo Bowl… worst thing that could happen is that you will have a good time.

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