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  1. #61
    Community Member Eladiun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danotmano1998 View Post
    1. These are arguably the most difficult raids in the game.
    2. These are arguably long and tedious to get to. In some cases it takes more time just to GET there than to do the raid.
    3. If it fails, (and it can quite often in a pug), you've just invested "X" hours doing something for no benefit.
    4. GS is 1000 times easier to make, and nearly equivalent.

    Please note, I specified "arguably". Meaning some have differering opinions. I can only comment on what I've personally experienced, and what I have seen/heard from others.

    This is close to how I feel for me it...

    1) Annoying slog to reach the raid where inevitably 1/4 the party pikes
    2) Stupid BTC mechanic for essences means filling roles difficult... e.i. Once you have your Tier 3 on a Cleric or Caster why go back. Essences should have been BTA and Cells BTC.
    3) Boring quest design
    4) With 20-25 releasing in a month are they going to be totally obsolete
    “If at first you don't succeed, keep on sucking till you do succeed.”

  2. #62
    Community Member FranOhmsford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweez View Post
    Here's the issue though - compare how often auto-complete raids are run to how often the other ones are. It's quite obvious that the vast, vast majority of the p(l)aying population wants autoattack/afk raids. I'm not saying I agree with this, but it's obvious that Turbine will go where the money is.
    They may be "autoattack/afk" to you BUT to myself and from what you say many many others in this game they are no such thing.

  3. #63
    Community Member KutchemesTheDark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aritukus View Post
    Hey Khakan, I remember you did around 10-12 runs when I was making LoB pugs up from say February to April. Back those days I ran it with from 5 to 7 guild members on 2-3 sets of characters and we did complete every singel run. But we already built what we wanted and almost everyone is on TR, so we didnt get actually bored and will be coming back with those pugs

    We had a lot of fun, and to all those saying that alch. weapons are bad, well... I like them even only as T2s, for time being.

    Kaethline
    Congrats your Tier2. But as you said this raids better with guild runs for sharing spirits and fragments.
    Cannith : Khakan ( Ftr ) - Ajattara ( Rog ) - Rigeell ( Fvs ) No guild, No Cry

  4. #64
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    MA is not run because the loot is not that in demand, it is very laggy/buggy, takes forever to clear, and the raid is just not fun for most people (myself included). It is destined to become a forgotten raid only run as a favor to artificers and those who can't find a base weapon for whatever reason.

    LoB is run. It is just not as often as some people would like. As previously was stated, many people already have enough tier1-2 stuff to gear several chars so they don't pug it anymore. Any high difficulty runs (elite/epic) also tend to have serious filters on them. Don't expect your newly lvl 20 char to get t3 alchemical any time soon without guildies/friends inviting you. Without that tier3, the gear is essentially greensteel for melees and the arcane/divine gear is either replaceable on other items or not a significant upgrade (ToD belts + greenblade + rahkir's set still works well enough for example). While I do enjoy the raid, the risk vs reward is not very appealing to many.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kmnh View Post
    You would be sursprised at how good a tier III alchemical weapon is in the hands of a barbarian.

    6% doublestrike is almost nothing in the hands of a ranger that does 50 damage a swing. Epically-geared barbarians are averaging somewhere around 200 damage. 6% of that is 12 damage. For comparison, lightning strike averages at 9.15 damage a swing.

    A +5 holy burst falchion of greater boss bane deals an average of 35.5* total weapon damage.
    The tier III alchemical falchion deals 38.65** , plus the AoE effect that bosses will usually evade.

    In any fight where a cannith crafted beater is better than the ESOS (like elite Horoth), the tier III alchemical weapon trumps both. And the EAGA is nowhere close.



    * 2d4 base, +5 bonus, +10 holy burst, +14.5 greater bane.
    * 2d6 base, +6 bonus, +3.5 shocking, +9.15 lightning strike, +12 doublestrike +1 stone of change)**
    Even vs 50% fort, the ESOS w/ devil's ruin does more damage than t3 air for barb and both are easier to get though they may take longer to acquire (stupid forum logout deleted all the math and I forgot to copy it *sigh*). While the ESOS requires more time/luck, it is far easier and more common to run evon and the augments are rather cheap compared to cells for lob weapons. Easier to make a crafted weapon with terror/greensteel for trash and then run evon until you get esos.

    In the case of TWF, I am pretty sure the crafted wins for bosses. The alchemicals are mainly trash beaters/novelty weapons that barely beat greensteel.

    *Edit to fix a few late-night typos*
    Last edited by Yalann; 05-05-2012 at 03:21 AM.
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  5. #65
    Community Member Aritukus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yalann View Post
    In the case of TWF, I am pretty sure the crafted wins for bosses. The alchemicals are mainly trash beaters/novelty weapons that barely beat greensteel.

    *Edit to fix a few late-night typos*
    Yes, its understandable that high cannith crafting people can make very good boss beaters. Especially with Greater Bane shards + Holy Burst, I agree. But in what way is a dual-shard light. strikes GS khopesh better then T2 Air? I have both twice and its simply aint better. The fact that Alchemical Crafting is the only way of getting +10 to Stunning Blow on any other then blunt weapon is exceptional without match. Plus the T2 Air Alchemical has Burst, Blast, +2 dex (yes, not perfect), +6% Double Strike, same base damage and same enh. damage as GS weapon of same type and also has Light. Strikes. So does GS really beats T2 alchemicals, as you say, becouse of one "shock 1d6" damage? I really disagree. Plus you can imbue metal on Alchemicals, in case of T2 Fire, you have metal+good beater free of charge. And dont say that T2 Fire Alchm. is weak due the fire immunities. Its not from my very own experience (which I made for testing it).

    Edit: There are so many ways of lowering fortification, so I dont take in comment vs. 50% forti mobs/bosses. Every melee can lower at least 18% without any trouble.
    Last edited by Aritukus; 05-05-2012 at 11:55 AM.

  6. #66
    Community Member Anthios888's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aritukus View Post
    Yes, its understandable that high cannith crafting people can make very good boss beaters. Especially with Greater Bane shards + Holy Burst, I agree. But in what way is a dual-shard light. strikes GS khopesh better then T2 Air? I have both twice and its simply aint better. The fact that Alchemical Crafting is the only way of getting +10 to Stunning Fists on any other then blunt weapon is exceptional without match. Plus the T2 Air Alchemical has Burst, Blast, +2 dex (yes, not perfect), +6% Double Strike, same base damage and same enh. damage as GS weapon of same type and also has Light. Strikes. So does GS really beats T2 alchemicals, as you say, becouse of one "shock 1d6" damage? I really disagree. Plus you can imbue metal on Alchemicals, in case of T2 Fire, you have metal+good beater free of charge. And dont say that T2 Fire Alchm. is weak due the fire immunities. Its not from my very own experience (which I made for testing it).

    Edit: There are so many ways of lowering fortification, so I dont take in comment vs. 50% forti mobs/bosses. Every melee can lower at least 18% without any trouble.
    You're best off with one of each, your air air in the offhand. Your alchemical does not actually have shocking blast, despite your post. The offhand doublestrike will actually make your lightning II 6% better.
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  7. #67
    Community Member Aritukus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthios888 View Post
    You're best off with one of each, your air air in the offhand. Your alchemical does not actually have shocking blast, despite your post. The offhand doublestrike will actually make your lightning II 6% better.
    True that, but I still rather carry one fire in off-hand for the easy +10 seeker and also alchemical strenght source. But it also works very good with GS off-hand/main-hand.

    My point was, that the alchemical weapons offer some sort of useful attributes that other weapons (epic or GS) doesnt have. Just +10 DC to Stunning Blow offers you +50% damage when actual mob is stunned, therefore out-dps any GS if you're having problems landing SBs. I like that on them, it makes them interresting and mostly one-of-a-kind.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aritukus View Post
    Yes, its understandable that high cannith crafting people can make very good boss beaters. Especially with Greater Bane shards + Holy Burst, I agree. But in what way is a dual-shard light. strikes GS khopesh better then T2 Air? I have both twice and its simply aint better. The fact that Alchemical Crafting is the only way of getting +10 to Stunning Blow on any other then blunt weapon is exceptional without match. Plus the T2 Air Alchemical has Burst, Blast, +2 dex (yes, not perfect), +6% Double Strike, same base damage and same enh. damage as GS weapon of same type and also has Light. Strikes. So does GS really beats T2 alchemicals, as you say, becouse of one "shock 1d6" damage? I really disagree. Plus you can imbue metal on Alchemicals, in case of T2 Fire, you have metal+good beater free of charge. And dont say that T2 Fire Alchm. is weak due the fire immunities. Its not from my very own experience (which I made for testing it).

    Edit: There are so many ways of lowering fortification, so I dont take in comment vs. 50% forti mobs/bosses. Every melee can lower at least 18% without any trouble.
    I did, actually, state that alchemical was better than greensteel. Perhaps I should have phrased it differently.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aritukus View Post
    True that, but I still rather carry one fire in off-hand for the easy +10 seeker and also alchemical strenght source. But it also works very good with GS off-hand/main-hand.

    My point was, that the alchemical weapons offer some sort of useful attributes that other weapons (epic or GS) doesnt have. Just +10 DC to Stunning Blow offers you +50% damage when actual mob is stunned, therefore out-dps any GS if you're having problems landing SBs. I like that on them, it makes them interresting and mostly one-of-a-kind.
    That is 50% more if you are landing stuns 100% versus 0% before which, with +10, cannot be the case. At absolute best, the mob would need to roll a 12 instead of a 2 for example and 50% * 50% = 25% more damage at most. This combined with the doublestrike is very nice if you can use it but many TWF builds do not have that option. TWF builds that either don't have the DC or the feats to use stunning blow lose this perk (paladins, rogues, etc).

    Either way, the main point was that THF and TWF alchemical weapons are fairly weak when compared to easier to obtain gear which they should be better than. As TWF boss beaters the alchemical weapons lose to far easier to obtain Cannith crafted weapons. With the high minimum levels on them, they are also fairly hard to use outside of a capped character even at tier1 or 2, especially when compared to greensteel useable at lvl 12. The only area they are fairly useful for is trash beaters and the difference between them and greensteel is not that substantial.

    To me, running the 'hardest' raid in the current end game for trash beaters is sad and in the case of THF, a terror is a better trash weapon most of the time. It is a nice boost for monks and somewhat decent for casters but I believe the lack of 'must have' gear beyond monks from the raid leads to a lack of enthusiasm in running it, especially on epic.
    Last edited by Yalann; 05-05-2012 at 02:08 PM.
    Denorn - Megaden - Denorc - Denarn - Yalan - Yalana - Yalann
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