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  1. #41
    Community Member Bacab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunga View Post
    yet another "no" to yet another "remove elite streak" thread
    tl:dr
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  2. #42
    Community Member Autolycus's Avatar
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    My experience agrees with the OP.

    We have a new guildie who wanted to run everything on elite, even though we told him it was a bad idea. He wouldn't listen tried several runs. After dying every time, we finally convinced him it was better to run normal or hard.

  3. #43
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    I'd have to agree with the crowd who recognizes scaling as the issue. Pretty much all quests now up til the mid level range, if you have twink gear on a tr, you can absolutely annihilate them on elite, so why bother wasting time finding a group when most content up to the mid level range amounts to a 15 minute or less zerg. You don't even need a trapper now thanks to scaling. Those traps that used to pwn your lowbie in a couple hits, you can now go afk to grab a drink while standing in them and not die. Heals? Why? Everything dies in 1 or 2 hits and hits you for 3 damage. Scaling is totally stupid. Worst addition to the game since dots.

    Here is a better solution to things, that will also fix the constant flow of people crying about guild decay. When a new account is registered, they automatically default to a noob server. They have to play on this server until they TR a toon, at which point they can transfer that toon to a different server, and have the option to create toons on any server they want. This server will be like a noob paradise. Everyone will run things on casual and normal, and think you are psychotic if you want to do a hard run, and wonder why turbine even bothered putting an elite difficulty in.

    In addition it would also encourage an environment of experimenting, learning, and exploring the game. They wouldn't join a quest group just to have a veteran zerg through it in 6 minutes before they even realize whats going on, and they wouldn't constantly post things like "first timer looking for guide." Instead it would be "first timer running casual."

    It would also alleviate the amount of complaining that goes on about guild decay. That casual player thats been playing for 3 years and still hasn't managed to cap a toon won't be crying about not getting into a high level active guild anymore, because he'd still be on the server full of other casual players and noobs.

    Ive been playing for about 2 years now, and the game has done nothing but get easier and easier. You can only cater to whiney noobs so much before everyone else just gets bored. Maybe its just my biased view but it seems like a huge majority of the people I come into contact with in game have been playing for a year+. Would it really be that bad to scale more portions of the game towards that crowd, then to scale the game to first life noobs who are concerned with elite streaks?

  4. #44
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    dungeon scaling is the real issue here.

    but I got neg repped so much for pointing on the elephant in the room in a different thread , i am not going into this again.

  5. #45
    The Hatchery Habreno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McFlay View Post
    Here is a better solution to things, that will also fix the constant flow of people crying about guild decay. When a new account is registered, they automatically default to a noob server. They have to play on this server until they TR a toon, at which point they can transfer that toon to a different server, and have the option to create toons on any server they want. This server will be like a noob paradise. Everyone will run things on casual and normal, and think you are psychotic if you want to do a hard run, and wonder why turbine even bothered putting an elite difficulty in.

    Only comment is some people don't want to TR their first toon. Let them unlock the server transfer upon hitting cap and acquiring 20 Epic Dungeon Tokens (the cost of a true heart)
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  6. #46
    Community Member HarveyMilk's Avatar
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    The real solution imho is to remove dungeon scaling, and scale the difficulties as follows:

    Elite - like a 6-man party now, for all party sizes
    Hard - like a 5-man party now, for all party sizes
    Normal - like a 3-man party now, for all party sizes
    Casual - like a 3-man party now, for all party sizes

    This way elite is always elite, hard is hard, etc...

    This way, everyone would be pugging elite quests because soloing to keep your bravery bonus would be much more difficult.

    Edit: Wow, just realized sirgog posted almost this exact same suggestion recently. It really is a good idea, lol
    Last edited by HarveyMilk; 05-02-2012 at 02:53 AM.

  7. #47
    2014 DDO Players Council Flavilandile's Avatar
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    I am also in agreement with the OP.

    The actual suggestion is not far from what was in game, long ago, when we had a real death penalty.

    Actually the bonuses for doing quests above your level from the OP suggestions are way lower than what used to be possible ( IIRC it was +10% per level, up to 40 or 50% ).

    There was no streak to break by doing a normal quest at your level and it was actually challenging doing Madstone normal with a LVL 8 or 9 Character ( yes, they did introduce the lock out in Gianthold because of that, among other things ).
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  8. #48
    Community Member CodyGenX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McFlay View Post
    I'd have to agree with the crowd who recognizes scaling as the issue. Pretty much all quests now up til the mid level range, if you have twink gear on a tr, you can absolutely annihilate them on elite, so why bother wasting time finding a group when most content up to the mid level range amounts to a 15 minute or less zerg. You don't even need a trapper now thanks to scaling. Those traps that used to pwn your lowbie in a couple hits, you can now go afk to grab a drink while standing in them and not die. Heals? Why? Everything dies in 1 or 2 hits and hits you for 3 damage. Scaling is totally stupid. Worst addition to the game since dots.

    Here is a better solution to things, that will also fix the constant flow of people crying about guild decay. When a new account is registered, they automatically default to a noob server. They have to play on this server until they TR a toon, at which point they can transfer that toon to a different server, and have the option to create toons on any server they want. This server will be like a noob paradise. Everyone will run things on casual and normal, and think you are psychotic if you want to do a hard run, and wonder why turbine even bothered putting an elite difficulty in.

    In addition it would also encourage an environment of experimenting, learning, and exploring the game. They wouldn't join a quest group just to have a veteran zerg through it in 6 minutes before they even realize whats going on, and they wouldn't constantly post things like "first timer looking for guide." Instead it would be "first timer running casual."

    It would also alleviate the amount of complaining that goes on about guild decay. That casual player thats been playing for 3 years and still hasn't managed to cap a toon won't be crying about not getting into a high level active guild anymore, because he'd still be on the server full of other casual players and noobs.

    Ive been playing for about 2 years now, and the game has done nothing but get easier and easier. You can only cater to whiney noobs so much before everyone else just gets bored. Maybe its just my biased view but it seems like a huge majority of the people I come into contact with in game have been playing for a year+. Would it really be that bad to scale more portions of the game towards that crowd, then to scale the game to first life noobs who are concerned with elite streaks?
    Its evil and I like it . . . But Ive also a soft spot for newbs , and it also doesnt allow me to torment them by saying stuff like "Youve not earned the honor of being in the presence of a omnipotent being like myself, begone nOOb".
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  9. #49
    Community Member Ungood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enoach View Post
    The problem with Bravery Bonus is not with the mechanic of how it works, its with how its used. The problem is the "Cool Kids" run elite and so many have bought into that like sheep.
    A this is the Real problem in a nutshell.

    If people could just replace the desire to WORK DDO and instead PLAY DDO I believe they would have more fun. When TR first happened and lots of ZERG Farming Groups started to form, people that were not of that mindset learned to survive outside of that mentality, we can do the same with Bravery Bonus.
    Bingo! The problem is not the game Mechanic at this point.

    Keep Bravery Bonus for those of us that enjoy running quests fewer times, and hopefully a Renascence will occur and people will come to realize they will have more fun not sticking with their Elite Streak, but actually questing.
    Exactly!

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by ulticleo View Post
    Again you are ignoring the fact that I have repeatedly said that I put up my own lfms regularly.
    You've also not given a single reason to not remove the bravery streak, other than that you don't want to.

    The only reason to not remove it is the xp bonus it gives. I have addressed that in my original post.

    so let's switch the game. Why not, instead of yelling "don't remove streak", try to convince me that it has somehow made the game better in a way that cannot be accomplished in other ways (specifically, look at my first post and see my suggestion)? And again, please keep in my mind that I DO streak, solo, put up my own lfms, etc. but think that it hampers grouping for those who do wish to run norm or hard.
    Bravery Bonuses have made the game considerably more accessible to those who prefer to have lives, IMO.

    Back when I first started playing 2-3 years ago, I'd heard of players who would quit the game because they felt over-burdened by the tremendous EXP requirements that accompanied third-life+ characters. Now, with the elite streaks, the game is much, much more casual-friendly toward Legend-builds.

    The only other way to expedite faster leveling is to spend money and/or try to be on while exp is being boosted during an event.

    However, I agree that Bravery Bonus has harmed grouping to some extent, but this is largely in relation to player mindset, not the mechanic - for I have left numerous groups that wanted to do a quest I had not done yet on a difficulty beneath elite, or who were one or more levels higher than that of the quest on elite. Had this bonus not existed, I would be much less picky than I currently am (there are simply too many packs that offer excellent exp with the streaks that I cannot really afford to break my streak at any point).
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  11. #51
    Community Member Gizeh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McFlay View Post
    Here is a better solution to things, that will also fix the constant flow of people crying about guild decay. When a new account is registered, they automatically default to a noob server. They have to play on this server until they TR a toon, at which point they can transfer that toon to a different server, and have the option to create toons on any server they want. This server will be like a noob paradise. Everyone will run things on casual and normal, and think you are psychotic if you want to do a hard run, and wonder why turbine even bothered putting an elite difficulty in.
    Have you considered that people tend to stay on a server on which they meet gaming buddies? Thus the "noob server" would be the only server getting new players who will stay there even after they TR. Meanwhile the other servers slowly lose members or at best stay at their current size. Thus over time the problem would simply be moved to a different server.

    So how about creating a "leet server" for those players who only want to run with the best? If it were based on your model everyone who TRs is automatically transferred there.

    But either way I don't think that segregation based on game experience would solve any problems - besides you ignored the fact that there are excellent players who never TR'd and also "noobs with wings".

    Quote Originally Posted by McFlay View Post
    Ive been playing for about 2 years now, and the game has done nothing but get easier and easier. You can only cater to whiney noobs so much before everyone else just gets bored. Maybe its just my biased view but it seems like a huge majority of the people I come into contact with in game have been playing for a year+. Would it really be that bad to scale more portions of the game towards that crowd, then to scale the game to first life noobs who are concerned with elite streaks?
    The game doesn't get easier, you become more experienced in how the game works, you learn how the quests work, and you acquire better gear. To someone who just started his first character the game is just as hard as it was for you when you started.

  12. #52
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    For those who point the finger at dungeon scaling


    I don't think you're wrong necessarily, in fact I have been in favor of removing dungeon scaling for the elite difficulty for some time (although harveymilk's or sirgog's suggestion is probably a better compromise). I will say this, anytime the following statement is made:

    The problem is not "this thing" it's the people who are using "this thing" and they are doing it wrong.

    I take notice. If enough people see a problem with "this thing" sometimes it's not the people who need to change. Not to say that the crowd is always right, it's just that there are some very biased posts in favor of BB. Just to be a little more objective and see through someone else's eyes. From my perspective the vets and players who can solo anything even with 5 soulstones are greatly enjoying the BB but some of the middling players are getting a different feel from the grouping that isn't meshing well with their abilities and/or playstyle. Changing dungeon scaling might help but note that without any changes to dungeon scaling "something" has changed in the grouping panel which is making it difficult for those players. I find it a small stretch to point to dungeon scaling as the culprit in this case however, I'm totally in favor of changing the dungeon scaling and maybe we'll see if it helps those players who have been negatively impacted by the introduction of bravery bonus.
    Last edited by morticianjohn; 05-02-2012 at 08:41 AM.
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  13. #53
    Community Member Calebro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HarveyMilk View Post
    The real solution imho is to remove dungeon scaling, and scale the difficulties as follows:

    Elite - like a 6-man party now, for all party sizes
    Hard - like a 5-man party now, for all party sizes
    Normal - like a 3-man party now, for all party sizes
    Casual - like a 3-man party now, for all party sizes

    This way elite is always elite, hard is hard, etc...

    This way, everyone would be pugging elite quests because soloing to keep your bravery bonus would be much more difficult.

    Edit: Wow, just realized sirgog posted almost this exact same suggestion recently. It really is a good idea, lol
    Dungeon scaling ends at party size 4. If you have a 5th or 6th member, they are only helping ease the pain. It would make more sense then, with that knowledge, to make causal=1, normal=2, hard=3, and elite=4
    .

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gizeh View Post
    Have you considered that people tend to stay on a server on which they meet gaming buddies? Thus the "noob server" would be the only server getting new players who will stay there even after they TR. Meanwhile the other servers slowly lose members or at best stay at their current size. Thus over time the problem would simply be moved to a different server.

    So how about creating a "leet server" for those players who only want to run with the best? If it were based on your model everyone who TRs is automatically transferred there.

    But either way I don't think that segregation based on game experience would solve any problems - besides you ignored the fact that there are excellent players who never TR'd and also "noobs with wings".
    So just stay on the noob server, nothing would be preventing you.


    Quote Originally Posted by Gizeh View Post
    The game doesn't get easier, you become more experienced in how the game works, you learn how the quests work, and you acquire better gear. To someone who just started his first character the game is just as hard as it was for you when you started.
    I think we must be playing a different game. There has been so much power creep just in the two years I've been playing. Just looking at gear, there is so much more/better gear available then there was 2 years ago. There is a lot of new named loot for all level ranges, as well as crafting making "random" loot ridiculously easy to obtain. Melees can acquire metalline/pure good boss beaters for a fraction of what they costed prior to crafting, and casters can get good casting gear for next to nothing. Lots of prestige enhancements have been added to the game and less useful ones improved upon. New classes have introduced new buffs to the game, as well as existing classes getting new spells. Tomes of learning now make leveling a lot easier, and dungeon scaling makes a lot of content a total joke.

    Sure I'll agree part of why the game seems easier is game knowledge, but saying the game hasn't gotten any easier is just pure ignorance.

  15. #55
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    I have a love/hate relationship with the bravery bonus. Who would not like taking 35,000 xp for completing Coal Chamber on elite? However, I do not like the way it has made posting an lfm for anything but elite a nearly pointless exercise. I particularly notice this with the Vale quests. After having run them the first time, I will want to repeat them on normal for materials and xp and would like to group up to make the runs easier/faster/more fun. Well, good luck getting any hits at all on your normal level 16-18 lfm. Or, get ready for all of the tells asking that you bump it up to elite.

    Perhaps a solution would be to award some additional xp bonus (such as suggested by the OP) for completing any quest the first time you run it on elite while still in the same 2 level range. That way the quest need not be run on elite the first time it is run, nor does a player have to worry about breaking a streak since the elite run can be made at a player's discretion.

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