My experience agrees with the OP.
We have a new guildie who wanted to run everything on elite, even though we told him it was a bad idea. He wouldn't listen tried several runs. After dying every time, we finally convinced him it was better to run normal or hard.
I'd have to agree with the crowd who recognizes scaling as the issue. Pretty much all quests now up til the mid level range, if you have twink gear on a tr, you can absolutely annihilate them on elite, so why bother wasting time finding a group when most content up to the mid level range amounts to a 15 minute or less zerg. You don't even need a trapper now thanks to scaling. Those traps that used to pwn your lowbie in a couple hits, you can now go afk to grab a drink while standing in them and not die. Heals? Why? Everything dies in 1 or 2 hits and hits you for 3 damage. Scaling is totally stupid. Worst addition to the game since dots.
Here is a better solution to things, that will also fix the constant flow of people crying about guild decay. When a new account is registered, they automatically default to a noob server. They have to play on this server until they TR a toon, at which point they can transfer that toon to a different server, and have the option to create toons on any server they want. This server will be like a noob paradise. Everyone will run things on casual and normal, and think you are psychotic if you want to do a hard run, and wonder why turbine even bothered putting an elite difficulty in.
In addition it would also encourage an environment of experimenting, learning, and exploring the game. They wouldn't join a quest group just to have a veteran zerg through it in 6 minutes before they even realize whats going on, and they wouldn't constantly post things like "first timer looking for guide." Instead it would be "first timer running casual."
It would also alleviate the amount of complaining that goes on about guild decay. That casual player thats been playing for 3 years and still hasn't managed to cap a toon won't be crying about not getting into a high level active guild anymore, because he'd still be on the server full of other casual players and noobs.
Ive been playing for about 2 years now, and the game has done nothing but get easier and easier. You can only cater to whiney noobs so much before everyone else just gets bored. Maybe its just my biased view but it seems like a huge majority of the people I come into contact with in game have been playing for a year+. Would it really be that bad to scale more portions of the game towards that crowd, then to scale the game to first life noobs who are concerned with elite streaks?
dungeon scaling is the real issue here.
but I got neg repped so much for pointing on the elephant in the room in a different thread , i am not going into this again.
The real solution imho is to remove dungeon scaling, and scale the difficulties as follows:
Elite - like a 6-man party now, for all party sizes
Hard - like a 5-man party now, for all party sizes
Normal - like a 3-man party now, for all party sizes
Casual - like a 3-man party now, for all party sizes
This way elite is always elite, hard is hard, etc...
This way, everyone would be pugging elite quests because soloing to keep your bravery bonus would be much more difficult.
Edit: Wow, just realized sirgog posted almost this exact same suggestion recently. It really is a good idea, lol
Last edited by HarveyMilk; 05-02-2012 at 02:53 AM.
I am also in agreement with the OP.
The actual suggestion is not far from what was in game, long ago, when we had a real death penalty.
Actually the bonuses for doing quests above your level from the OP suggestions are way lower than what used to be possible ( IIRC it was +10% per level, up to 40 or 50% ).
There was no streak to break by doing a normal quest at your level and it was actually challenging doing Madstone normal with a LVL 8 or 9 Character ( yes, they did introduce the lock out in Gianthold because of that, among other things ).
On G-Land : Flavilandile, Blacklock, Yaelle, Millishande, Larilandile, Gildalinde, Tenalafel, and many other...
Bingo! The problem is not the game Mechanic at this point.If people could just replace the desire to WORK DDO and instead PLAY DDO I believe they would have more fun. When TR first happened and lots of ZERG Farming Groups started to form, people that were not of that mindset learned to survive outside of that mentality, we can do the same with Bravery Bonus.
Exactly!Keep Bravery Bonus for those of us that enjoy running quests fewer times, and hopefully a Renascence will occur and people will come to realize they will have more fun not sticking with their Elite Streak, but actually questing.
Back when I first started playing 2-3 years ago, I'd heard of players who would quit the game because they felt over-burdened by the tremendous EXP requirements that accompanied third-life+ characters. Now, with the elite streaks, the game is much, much more casual-friendly toward Legend-builds.
The only other way to expedite faster leveling is to spend money and/or try to be on while exp is being boosted during an event.
However, I agree that Bravery Bonus has harmed grouping to some extent, but this is largely in relation to player mindset, not the mechanic - for I have left numerous groups that wanted to do a quest I had not done yet on a difficulty beneath elite, or who were one or more levels higher than that of the quest on elite. Had this bonus not existed, I would be much less picky than I currently am (there are simply too many packs that offer excellent exp with the streaks that I cannot really afford to break my streak at any point).
Ziind Stargazer - Level 12 fighter/6 Barbarian/2 rogue Half-Orc (Neutral Good) - Formerly a level 20 Paladin Human - Orien
Fernian Summer Carnival
So how about creating a "leet server" for those players who only want to run with the best? If it were based on your model everyone who TRs is automatically transferred there.
But either way I don't think that segregation based on game experience would solve any problems - besides you ignored the fact that there are excellent players who never TR'd and also "noobs with wings".
For those who point the finger at dungeon scaling
I don't think you're wrong necessarily, in fact I have been in favor of removing dungeon scaling for the elite difficulty for some time (although harveymilk's or sirgog's suggestion is probably a better compromise). I will say this, anytime the following statement is made:
The problem is not "this thing" it's the people who are using "this thing" and they are doing it wrong.
I take notice. If enough people see a problem with "this thing" sometimes it's not the people who need to change. Not to say that the crowd is always right, it's just that there are some very biased posts in favor of BB. Just to be a little more objective and see through someone else's eyes. From my perspective the vets and players who can solo anything even with 5 soulstones are greatly enjoying the BB but some of the middling players are getting a different feel from the grouping that isn't meshing well with their abilities and/or playstyle. Changing dungeon scaling might help but note that without any changes to dungeon scaling "something" has changed in the grouping panel which is making it difficult for those players. I find it a small stretch to point to dungeon scaling as the culprit in this case however, I'm totally in favor of changing the dungeon scaling and maybe we'll see if it helps those players who have been negatively impacted by the introduction of bravery bonus.
Last edited by morticianjohn; 05-02-2012 at 08:41 AM.
Cannith - Noehealz, Protectorjon, Noebuffs, Mortion
Sure I'll agree part of why the game seems easier is game knowledge, but saying the game hasn't gotten any easier is just pure ignorance.
I have a love/hate relationship with the bravery bonus. Who would not like taking 35,000 xp for completing Coal Chamber on elite? However, I do not like the way it has made posting an lfm for anything but elite a nearly pointless exercise. I particularly notice this with the Vale quests. After having run them the first time, I will want to repeat them on normal for materials and xp and would like to group up to make the runs easier/faster/more fun. Well, good luck getting any hits at all on your normal level 16-18 lfm. Or, get ready for all of the tells asking that you bump it up to elite.
Perhaps a solution would be to award some additional xp bonus (such as suggested by the OP) for completing any quest the first time you run it on elite while still in the same 2 level range. That way the quest need not be run on elite the first time it is run, nor does a player have to worry about breaking a streak since the elite run can be made at a player's discretion.
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