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  1. #1
    Developer MadFloyd's Avatar
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    Default FEEDBACK: Active (clickies) vs Passive abilities

    As you know, some classes (e.g. casters) have more active "clickies" than others, with melee classes typically having less.

    What are your thoughts/tolerances on active abilities as they pertain to your play preferences?

    Some sample answers (in case this makes it easier - feel free to answer any way you like):
    1) The more the merrier! The more I can do the better.
    2) Love them as long as they are offensive attacks and not complimentary abilities (e.g. boosts or mob debuffs)
    3) I like having them, just don't want to be forced to use them to be successful.
    4) Prefer passive abilities, otherwise gameplay is too demanding & complex.

    As usual I thank you for your feedback.
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  2. #2
    Community Member dynahawk's Avatar
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    I enjoy using active abilities quite a bit while playing melee. I feel I have more control over my DPS/character and I would probably be bored really fast just holding down 1 button and getting all my goodies.

  3. #3
    Community Member Rakezi's Avatar
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    I think as your sig puts it... No challenge no fun. Short term boosts add something to the game other than sitting there with autoattack on and going afk.

  4. #4
    Community Member DemonMage's Avatar
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    Active abilities are really nice. I loved being able to run in and hit Haste and Damage boost on my last life, mash Cleave/Great Cleave, and follow it up with Student of the Sword and Bluff as needed. I'd definitely be open to having more active abilities, so long as it doesn't devolve into a cooldown watching hard defined rotational set of key abilities.
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  5. #5

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    I'm somewhere between 3 and 4. I don't mind a few tactics there or there, but I get tired of having to remember to click a certain button to maintain a proper level of damage.

    Also, just because casters have more options (spells to cast) at a certain time, do not confuse that with a "clickie" ability. I'd consider the DoT spells to be a clickie style ability because you have to keep clicking it to maintain DPS. I would not consider a normal spell to be "clickie".
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  6. #6
    Community Member Qzipoun's Avatar
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    This thread scares me

    An active and exciting combat system is the biggest selling point for the game ...

  7. #7
    Community Member xveganrox's Avatar
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    I'm going to go with option 1. I like that using clickies dramatically increases my character's effectiveness. I play a melee (18 rogue/2 fighter) and when I first capped I barely used any clickies. Now I use..

    Trip
    Hamstring
    Human Damage Boost
    Rogue Haste Boost
    Madstone Boots
    Gloves of the Titan's Grip
    Mabar Robe
    Shard of Xoriat
    GH/Invis/Jump ToD Clickies
    Haste clickies
    GS Displacement clickies
    Grease clickies
    Heal Scrolls
    Silver Flame Potions
    And of course, my favourite: Kormor's Belt!

    I could cut out the majority of these and still be nearly as effective, or cut out all of them and still be able to play Normal content, but I like that by using them properly I can maximize my character's potential. And I still have room on my hotbars for whatever more the expansion may bring. I would definitely like to see more active combat abilities (especially rogue-only! how about turning Opportunist into a guaranteed crit/sneak attack, on a 30 second timer?)

  8. #8
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    I think that as long as they don't usurp the role of another player then they're fine. I also think that they should NOT be required to be successful.

    Otherwise active or passive abilities are fine.

  9. #9
    Community Member thwart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qzipoun View Post
    This thread scares me

    An active and exciting combat system is the biggest selling point for the game ...
    I agree with this, but on the other hand I would not want more clickies to have to deal with. I think we have a really good balance now.

  10. #10
    Community Member Shadowrth's Avatar
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    Smile agreed

    I don't want the clickies taken away however I believe a few of them could probably use to be a passive ability.
    While not the best example take auto attack for example if you click the mouse once it turns on auto attack.
    If you hold the button down then he just continues to attack so long as it is pressed.

    Doing little things like this on a few things would help to clear up shortcut bars making things a lot easier to find and reducing unnecessaryclutter.but I do like options and feeling more in control.

  11. #11
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    I'd think I'd probably fall into the (3) category.

    I'd definitely not like the simplification implied in (4), or the free-for-all complexity that unrestricted (1) might lead to.

    That all being said, casters have a lot of clickies and passive item abilities that can massively increase effectiveness, eg archmagi items that boost spell points and potency items etc that massively increase the effectiveness of each of those spell points.

    I don't really see that sort of boost (eg being able to equip a passive item that doubles DPS) being available to melees. Maybe a greater equivalence might be desirable. But increasing melee clickies, etc, will lead to power creep. Decreasing item power for casters would lead to much moaning.

  12. #12
    Community Member DemonMage's Avatar
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    The problem here xveganrox is that all of those options are available to, and most of them are used by, casters as well. This thread is more about abilities if I understand the intention correctly and less about item clickies, but I could be wrong. A lot of item clickies and scrolls are good and used regardless of character type, and when you eliminate those a lot of melees don't have nearly the range of options that a caster can. Which to be fair is one of the cool things about casters, but there's no reason we can't give melees fun toys too (monks being a good example).
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  13. #13

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    I find it part of the reason why the combat system is so much better.

    But it would be nice if there was a 'buff' clickie to setup. Kind of like I target A (which can yourself) and click a button where you can set what will be cast on you and you can setup several of those buttons.

    Example

    Most people have guild buffs, so clicking button X hits you with several other buffs you normally add. And you also like to buff other people so when you hit button Y it hits them with the other stuff.

    So on my arty I would cast sonic resist, bulls strength, Deadly weapons etc and on the pet deadly weapons and several other resists. Of course when you click it it doesn't cast all of them at the same time, but it'll cast them one after another until it's done.

    This is especially useful in challenges where time spent buffing is time wasted.

    But lets not automate the combat aspect of the game - it is what keeps the game alive.

  14. #14
    Community Member Chette's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadFloyd View Post
    As you know, some classes (e.g. casters) have more active "clickies" than others, with melee classes typically having less.

    What are your thoughts/tolerances on active abilities as they pertain to your play preferences?

    Some sample answers (in case this makes it easier - feel free to answer any way you like):
    1) The more the merrier! The more I can do the better.
    2) Love them as long as they are offensive attacks and not complimentary abilities (e.g. boosts or mob debuffs)
    3) I like having them, just don't want to be forced to use them to be successful.
    4) Prefer passive abilities, otherwise gameplay is too demanding & complex.

    As usual I thank you for your feedback.
    Clickies that you use at the start of a battle with a significant duration are fine, even clickies that you restart every few minutes are fine. Clickies that you must constantly be using, every few seconds, get annoying fast.

    In general, I'd be favour of a few more melee clickies, as long as they provide significant benefit. I like to play my melee characters tactically, stunning, tripping, sundering etc, but I don't find the amount of clicking that I currently do overwhelming.

    Casters on the other hand are another matter, especially divines. A good caster is already always clicking something. Updating spell damage clickies every three minutes, eardwellers, litanies, lesser maximize/heighten/wahtever clickies, abbot gloves, baubles, korthos necklaces, twisted talismans, etc etc. The whole time they are activating those clickies, they are also CASTING SPELLS. A finger there, a hold here, SLA SLA SLA. Favoured Souls are the worst, IMO, at least the way I play mind in end game content, activating clickies, casting spell, while also watching 12 health bars and throwing scrolls everytime they're off timer.

    So in sum. Melee clickies, OK, as long as they provide signifcant benefit (they will need to provide significant benefit to make someone stop swinging to use them). Caster clickes, nuh uh, no way, too many as it is.
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  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by MadFloyd View Post
    As you know, some classes (e.g. casters) have more active "clickies" than others, with melee classes typically having less.
    I tend to think that a clickie class means Paladin or Monk where you are hitting a lot of combos or short term buffs in comparison to rangers or barbarians who have less to activate.

    As I stated above the only "clickie" I'd consider casters having are the relatively new DoT spells.
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  16. #16
    Community Member Monkey-Boy's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MadFloyd View Post
    As you know, some classes (e.g. casters) have more active "clickies" than others, with melee classes typically having less.

    What are your thoughts/tolerances on active abilities as they pertain to your play preferences?

    Some sample answers (in case this makes it easier - feel free to answer any way you like):
    1) The more the merrier! The more I can do the better.
    2) Love them as long as they are offensive attacks and not complimentary abilities (e.g. boosts or mob debuffs)
    3) I like having them, just don't want to be forced to use them to be successful.
    4) Prefer passive abilities, otherwise gameplay is too demanding & complex.

    As usual I thank you for your feedback.
    it's fine, though I'd like to see certain things like Power Surge be a full-time stance instead of a 1 minute clickie. I'd laso like to see Frenzy and Death Frenzie get the same treatment and not require the renewal.

  17. #17
    Community Member TPICKRELL's Avatar
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    I love active combat, and active attacks that matter (monk strikes/finishers, trip, sunder, stun...)

    I hate short time based clickies that have to be micro managed by watching timers and icons/timers. If I'm in combat, my eyes should be able to stay on the enemies, not have to keep focused on icons on the edge of the screen.

    I prefer active actions on my casters as well, but have a much higher tolerance for watching timers when I am casting.

  18. #18
    Community Member die's Avatar
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    Ive never read a dnd novel , and i have well over 25yrs worth. Were i hear the wizard hold on i need too equip my potency item, and drink a mana pot, or a fighter "damn i left my haste clicky in the bank.

    One of my favorite characters Raistlin majere claimed useing rings and magical items made a caster weak, now thats not an exact quote but is not far from it


    So IMO if you got rid of all the clickys potency items ad all the fluff it would not hurt my fillings in the least, IMO it would give it more of a dnd fill no more 15 weapon sets and all that **** you have 2 bags take what you think you will need and make it work!!
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  19. #19

    Default Moar!

    My pure fighter uses a lot of clickies...I'm all for more if that's what is to come. They help an otherwise non-self sufficient class depend less on others.

    My caster uses them too, but it's more for fluff when it comes to a caster
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  20. #20
    Community Member Cyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monkey-Boy View Post
    it's fine, though I'd like to see certain things like Power Surge be a full-time stance instead of a 1 minute clickie. I'd laso like to see Frenzy and Death Frenzie get the same treatment and not require the renewal.
    I agree with this sentiment.

    Longer term clickies that provide buffs should be considered for passive treatment, but the overall balance now is fairly good. I would say once you get above 5 active clickies I tend to drop clickies from my rotations unless they are longer term ones so very heavy clicky classes that do not benefit greatly from those extra clickies I tend to just ignore the extras except in specific boss fights. Like monk I will use three elemental strikes, ToD, shadow fade, stun, and stunning fist with tod and shadow fade on inconvient keys to hit quickly because I hit them alot less.

    Edit: I also think it would be interesting to have enhancement lines to auto-trigger specific tactical abilities X% of the time (not invoking cool downs). Something like Kensai Trip Mastery: You have a 5% chance per rank of this purchased of attempting a trip (or improved trip if you have the feat) on any attack you make. This does not trigger a cooldown on the active trip or improved trip feat.
    Last edited by Cyr; 04-25-2012 at 02:54 PM.
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