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  1. #1
    Developer MadFloyd's Avatar
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    Default FEEDBACK: Active (clickies) vs Passive abilities

    As you know, some classes (e.g. casters) have more active "clickies" than others, with melee classes typically having less.

    What are your thoughts/tolerances on active abilities as they pertain to your play preferences?

    Some sample answers (in case this makes it easier - feel free to answer any way you like):
    1) The more the merrier! The more I can do the better.
    2) Love them as long as they are offensive attacks and not complimentary abilities (e.g. boosts or mob debuffs)
    3) I like having them, just don't want to be forced to use them to be successful.
    4) Prefer passive abilities, otherwise gameplay is too demanding & complex.

    As usual I thank you for your feedback.
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  2. #2
    Community Member dynahawk's Avatar
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    I enjoy using active abilities quite a bit while playing melee. I feel I have more control over my DPS/character and I would probably be bored really fast just holding down 1 button and getting all my goodies.

  3. #3
    Community Member Rakezi's Avatar
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    I think as your sig puts it... No challenge no fun. Short term boosts add something to the game other than sitting there with autoattack on and going afk.

  4. #4
    Community Member DemonMage's Avatar
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    Active abilities are really nice. I loved being able to run in and hit Haste and Damage boost on my last life, mash Cleave/Great Cleave, and follow it up with Student of the Sword and Bluff as needed. I'd definitely be open to having more active abilities, so long as it doesn't devolve into a cooldown watching hard defined rotational set of key abilities.
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  5. #5

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    I'm somewhere between 3 and 4. I don't mind a few tactics there or there, but I get tired of having to remember to click a certain button to maintain a proper level of damage.

    Also, just because casters have more options (spells to cast) at a certain time, do not confuse that with a "clickie" ability. I'd consider the DoT spells to be a clickie style ability because you have to keep clicking it to maintain DPS. I would not consider a normal spell to be "clickie".
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  6. #6
    Community Member Qzipoun's Avatar
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    This thread scares me

    An active and exciting combat system is the biggest selling point for the game ...

  7. #7
    Community Member thwart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qzipoun View Post
    This thread scares me

    An active and exciting combat system is the biggest selling point for the game ...
    I agree with this, but on the other hand I would not want more clickies to have to deal with. I think we have a really good balance now.

  8. #8
    Scholar Of Adventure & Hero Missing_Minds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thwart View Post
    I agree with this, but on the other hand I would not want more clickies to have to deal with. I think we have a really good balance now.
    Agreed, add more clickies and suddenly we become like every other MMO out there even more so, just waiting on timers.

  9. #9
    Community Member Truga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Missing_Minds View Post
    Agreed, add more clickies and suddenly we become like every other MMO out there even more so, just waiting on timers.
    I think optional clickies are in order. Clickies, that also have passive counterparts.

    Clickies and passives should be balanced out. Taking 7 passive feats/enhancements should have roughly the same power as taking 7 active ones. The only difference should be playstyle. One is Monk(ey) hitting hotkeys, the other is w+m1.

    Take mixes to achieve middle ground builds.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qzipoun View Post
    This thread scares me

    An active and exciting combat system is the biggest selling point for the game ...
    This is how I feel. You can't just ask questions like this without the back end of the story. What is the alternative? Why is this even being considered? Do we really need to be changing things like this (spell pass, TWF and the likes), or is the motive simply to add something to future release notes?

    It looks like you guys on the Mournlands have something up your sleeve, and because you gave example answers, I'm guessing the best feedback you're hoping for would be one of the four possible answers you've provided. In the spirit of keeping this simple, I'll submit my answer as follows:

    1) The more the merrier! The more I can do the better. Don't dumb it down.

    The only possible thing that could make this thread more terrifying is Fernando Paiz asking the question himself.
    Last edited by Gimpinator; 04-25-2012 at 03:20 PM. Reason: Forgot a question mark!

  11. #11
    Developer Vargouille's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qzipoun View Post
    An active and exciting combat system is the biggest selling point for the game ...
    This is an interesting point. Some players have stated that positioning relative to monsters and running around means they feel they have less time to push buttons, while others have said that pushing lots of buttons is part of the active combat they like.

    When someone says they like the active combat in DDO, we don't always know if they like more button pushing or less.
    Last edited by Vargouille; 04-26-2012 at 09:09 AM.

  12. #12
    The Hatchery danotmano1998's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    This is an interesting point. Some players have stated that positioning relative to monsters and running around means they feel they have less time to push buttons, while others have said that pushing lots of buttons is part of the active combat they like.

    When someone says they like the active combat in DDO, we don't always know if they like more button pushing or less.
    Both are what makes this game great. Having options and being able to try different tactics is good for everyone.

    While I am not in the "Let's make a million clickies" camp, I would say if they are well planned and useful, but not necessarly mandatory, I'm all for them.
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  13. #13
    Scholar Of Adventure & Hero Missing_Minds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    This is an interesting point. Some players have stated that positioning relative to monsters and running around means they feel they have less time to push buttons, while others have said that pushing lots of buttons is part of the active combat they like.

    When someone says they like the active combat in DDO, we don't always know if they like more button pushing or less.
    ....

    *yeah! I get to push more buttons while I stand here!
    emm... joy???

    *yeah! I get to stand here on auto attack! brb, getting a drink.
    emm.... ok.

    *Will this bloody jerk stand still so I can hit him.
    This I can agree with as it is bloody frustration watching weapons go right through the target and nothing, yet 20 feet away and they can hit you. smooooooth. Trip attempt... SLIDE.... back up and attack you like nothing happened by the time you catch up.

    The game designer crew has a hard time here. You've made the combat nice and active because of area detection, where the drawback is lag if done too much, let alone client server arguing makes it not fun allowing the server to cheat a lot. But at the same point, 3.x which you are based on doesn't use "clickes" much at all.

    The only way I could see giving it a look of more activeness if there was some beat timer you could use to increase dps but not have it go lower than the current standard.
    In the same vein, I find monks to be the most active of the combat classes because you have to constantly setup stuff with ki. This active combat is why people love or hate monks, and why so many complaints about ki generation came about.

    Maybe... there is a good amount of clickes, but there should be some combat method to regenerate them. Such as detect swings of attack (so you don't just wiff air) that after 50 or 200 odd swings, clikies regenerate by one?

    I don't know. I tend to avoid clickies in combat for the most part. Why? I bloody hate the fact that if I activate them I have to wait several seconds before I can do anything in combat. Thanks for wasting precious time off my buff.

  14. #14
    Community Member Cyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    This is an interesting point. Some players have stated that positioning relative to monsters and running around means they feel they have less time to push buttons, while others have said that pushing lots of buttons is part of the active combat they like.

    When someone says they like the active combat in DDO, we don't always know if they like more button pushing or less.
    Maybe they like around the amount they have now.

    Some are nice to have. Get too many and it detracts from the movement oriented gameplay for those without lots of buttons on their mouse. Game plays very differently for me on my laptop (with junk mouse) to my main system (with mouse with side buttons). I end up dropping down the number of things I use regularly with the laptop, otherwise I can not move effectively during combat.
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  15. #15
    Community Member TPICKRELL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    This is an interesting point. Some players have stated that positioning relative to monsters and running around means they feel they have less time to push buttons, while others have said that pushing lots of buttons is part of the active combat they like.

    When someone says they like the active combat in DDO, we don't always know if they like more button pushing or less.
    For me its both, with the ability for me to match my tactics to the situation.

    If I have enough armor class that I'm not taking damage, I may stand still and concentrate on maximizing relevant attacks. If I'm getting hit, I'll reduce the strikes a bit in exchange for maneuvering so that I minimize the incoming attacks.

    The ability to do either and to switch between them at will, situationally is what makes DDO my game of choice.

    That's also why I hate short time based melee clickies that don't have obvious effects. Using those means I have to watch clickie timers instead of concentrating on active combat. Clickies like haste boost are an exception, because you can tell when you haste boost runs out without looking at a timer....

  16. #16
    Community Member Vazok1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    This is an interesting point. Some players have stated that positioning relative to monsters and running around means they feel they have less time to push buttons, while others have said that pushing lots of buttons is part of the active combat they like.

    When someone says they like the active combat in DDO, we don't always know if they like more button pushing or less.
    Monk is a very good example for something like this, lots of different buttons doing lots of different things, however, if someone likes monk but not the buttons, they dont have to, the only one they really lose out on not pushing is stunning fist. and thats a feat not an enhancement.
    In my opinion think of it like a reward system, if you press the button you get a treat ie more damage, mob de-buff like imp sunder fort de-buff, etc.
    lots of things to do is great for those of us who like that, but they shouldnt be KEY parts of a prestiges damage or something, which i guess is what your getting at. Where is that balance? well, thats your problem :P
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  17. #17
    Hero AZgreentea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    This is an interesting point. Some players have stated that positioning relative to monsters and running around means they feel they have less time to push buttons, while others have said that pushing lots of buttons is part of the active combat they like.

    When someone says they like the active combat in DDO, we don't always know if they like more button pushing or less.
    Its not that I dont have time to push buttons. I just dont have time to fumble with buttons that are out of reach (meaning I have to take my fingers off my 'drive' keys) or require me to hit them on the hotbar with a mouse click (and risk not activating them because I didnt double click). In the heat of combat I stick with my top 5 hotbar buttons. I like lots of buttons, but in practice I only actively use up to 5 at a time. The rest sit there for that slower part of quests in between major fights.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    When someone says they like the active combat in DDO, we don't always know if they like more button pushing or less.
    Both. For my caster I enjoy jumping around powerful enemies and wearing them down with spells. For my melee I enjoy running up to enemies and start beating them down. And on my healer I like keeping an eye on my allies' health, beating down the enemies in front of me with my weapons, and occasionally dropping a cometfall down to keep my enemies from running around.

  19. #19
    The Hatchery Nospheratus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    This is an interesting point. Some players have stated that positioning relative to monsters and running around means they feel they have less time to push buttons, while others have said that pushing lots of buttons is part of the active combat they like.

    When someone says they like the active combat in DDO, we don't always know if they like more button pushing or less.
    Consider this:
    Each class has more or less "button pushing" than the previous, be it caster or not. Even then, depending on build choices, it can have more or less.

    IMO, the amount of "button pushing" is ok in DDO. I would just extend the duration of Divine Might and reduce it's activation time
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  20. #20
    Community Member Dagolar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    This is an interesting point. Some players have stated that positioning relative to monsters and running around means they feel they have less time to push buttons, while others have said that pushing lots of buttons is part of the active combat they like.

    When someone says they like the active combat in DDO, we don't always know if they like more button pushing or less.
    Active movement and abilities such as cleave, sunder, assassination, etc, add a dynamic, boredom-removing element to combat (especially for the otherwise extremely bland fighter class). Adding more options in this category, and clearing up the contact issues (most notably with spells) when mobs get especially closeby in melee would only enhance gameplay.

    Boosts, aside from lacking in functionality in some cases, disrupt combat by forcing a delay upon use, last for too brief durations, and have too much of a WoW-esque combat system feel.
    That is: Most mobs die very fast in DDO. You'll activate a boost, and the mobs'll die by the time it activates, and it'll disappear by the time you get to the next one. On the few chances you have to utilize it better against mobs, the removal of the attacks you'd have gotten during the delay counters much of the benefit of the attacks made with the boosts.
    The few times boosts can be handy are against bosses, and even then their structure makes them limiting at times, especially with dynamic boss situations, such as Velah's inferno, given their short duration and limited number of uses.

    And, emphasizing again, that's just for the small number of boosts that actually have benefit worth their use.
    The main problem with clickies in DDO is their structure and balance, not their inclusion, which would welcome further attention.
    Last edited by Dagolar; 04-26-2012 at 10:11 AM.
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