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  1. #321
    Community Member Ralmeth's Avatar
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    I'm also a bit late to this thread, but I'd like to chime in. For me, I almost always play a Paladin and have been for over 6 years now, and here are my thoughts:

    -Clickies are great! That's a big reason I like playing a Paladin. If I had to just hold down the attack button I would have quit DDO a long time ago.

    -I like having a small number of combat clickies that I have to decide when to use them. For example, when to time an exhalted smite, divine sacrifice, or intimidate. Or when and where to use glorious stand or lay on hands. However I only have so many hotkeys and such that I want to use, and too many gets too cumbersome.

    -I hate pseudo combat clickies, which I consider are ones that last 1 minute (i.e. divine might and divine righteousness). I use them because they are really helpful, but having to remember to hit divine might once per minute is annoying. There's really no challenge in it other than to remember to do it. I'd rather this last longer so it's a proper short term buff like divine favor or zeal.
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  2. #322
    2015 DDO Players Council InsanityIsYourFriend's Avatar
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    i believe that there should be more clickies in the game that are actually helpful
    for example
    pin shot
    grapple
    things like that that are actually useful and not abilities never used (like for example i have NEVER seen anyone use slicing blow and have seen ONE person use sap)
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  3. #323
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    I'm all for active abilities. I like the auto-abilities that each class gets on level up and the numerous options for picking (both as feats and enhancements). Now inventory-space-gobbling clickies are also good, but not to be too excessive. when you have to make the decision of bringing a couple possibly needed clickies or make room for loot on a good loot producing quest, that's where I draw the line.

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  4. #324
    Community Member loki_3369's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qzipoun View Post
    This thread scares me

    An active and exciting combat system is the biggest selling point for the game ...
    Agreed. I wouldn't have kept playing if it's combat system wasn't such a fast paced sort. Probably one of the main reasons I like DDO over every other MMO out there.
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  5. #325
    Community Member toun's Avatar
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    I play with 2 primary hotbars: 1-10 and Shift 1-10. I should add an Alt 1-10 or something but I've been lazy.

    These get dedicated slots. These are fun. They provide immediate feedback (except when the mob cheats and ends up not being where you thought he was when you hit stunning blow. Oh, they know when you're about to hit smite evil because that's when they just jump back.)

    FUN:
    Active abilities like stunning fist, trip.
    Spells like heal, crowd control, primary ray / aoe nukes.

    NOT FUN:
    The worst is equipment-based buffs.

    Click gauntlets of whatever super strength.
    Wait 2 seconds.
    Click again to re-equip normal gear.

    Click helmet of uber invulnerability.
    Wait 2 seconds.
    Click again.

    Yay I am ready, drink a haste pot.
    Oh wait, the sorc nuked everything dead already.

  6. #326
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    DDO is renowned for it's fun combat. Adding in clickies makes it less fun and more like the boring other guys.

  7. #327
    Community Member eachna_gislin's Avatar
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    Necroing an old thread but I'm bored since the game is down and I'm reading old posts.

    I prefer passive abilities and stances to actual 'clickies' that you have to maintain.

    If it is a clickie I prefer one with a cooldown and/or a (potentially) renewable pool (mana/ki/health) you can spend to power it, to "x uses per rest". I personally prefer "X uses per rest" to be limited to items.

    What I would like to see is multiple styles of combat types (also referenced by other people in this thread).

    The original Witcher game had an interesting 'rhythem' method to combat that I happened to enjoy. You timed your swings based on particular visual/audio cues in order to activate special attacks. I'd love to see that as an option for particular prestiges. It would result in combat emphasizing smooth, steady swings. So instead of putting your special attack on a cooldown, you would have to complete the pattern before you could use it. This is good for people with slow reflexes or who otherwise enjoy methodical play.

    Then, another option for people who like to move around in combat and jump a lot...right now movement breaks many (all?) attack chains. So, basically, your character would build up some sort of attack counter every time they moved while hitting, and eventually be able to pay for a special attack that way. In this style you'd see someone making good use of good twitch skills.

    Two different ways to handle combat that wouldn't (necessarily) be incompatible to code.

    Other styles have been suggested by other people in the thread. Eventually, you might have...Defenders be managed by the slow methodical style, while Acrobats and ranged Artis would use the rapid movement style and casters would have a different style from either of those.

    The different styles could be limited by stances. So, while a multi-class character might have access to three different combat styles, they could only use one at a time.

    Off to pick at more old threads.

  8. #328
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    We have seen the results of this feedback now.

    There is a very clickie-heavy melee destiny on Legendary Dreadnought and a more autoattack-friendly one on Fury of The Wild.

    I love my LD rogue. Its the most insanely clickie-heavy thing to play,ever - my rogue has more shortcut bars than my wizard, but juggling all those abilities makes for really fun combat and a very powerful character.
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  9. #329
    Community Member wuliman's Avatar
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    Default most are good, some just need to go

    Clickies for the most part don't bother me. They add a flavor to a fight based on how you micro manage your character during active combat. They're are a few i just flat out hate to death:

    I prefer frenzied barbs 1 minute frenzy clickies to be toggle enabled.
    I prefer that the pali's divine might, for the large enchance point investment, be a toggle, or an instantaneous click...no casting animation.

    Beyond that, all other clickies i'm good with.
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  10. #330
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    Default UMD lag bug

    My preference would be fix the UMD gear swap lag.

    Quote Originally Posted by MadFloyd View Post
    As you know, some classes (e.g. casters) have more active "clickies" than others, with melee classes typically having less.

    What are your thoughts/tolerances on active abilities as they pertain to your play preferences?

    Some sample answers (in case this makes it easier - feel free to answer any way you like):
    1) The more the merrier! The more I can do the better.
    2) Love them as long as they are offensive attacks and not complimentary abilities (e.g. boosts or mob debuffs)
    3) I like having them, just don't want to be forced to use them to be successful.
    4) Prefer passive abilities, otherwise gameplay is too demanding & complex.

    As usual I thank you for your feedback.
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  11. #331
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    3) I like having them, just don't want to be forced to use them to be successful.
    4) Prefer passive abilities, otherwise gameplay is too demanding & complex.
    Those two for sure. Also an ability shouldn't be active just to do something. I shouldn't have to click on an otherwise passive ability just so I have something to click on. Also if it is passive in the PnP game it should stay passive if used in this game.

  12. #332
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadFloyd View Post
    As you know, some classes (e.g. casters) have more active "clickies" than others, with melee classes typically having less.

    What are your thoughts/tolerances on active abilities as they pertain to your play preferences?

    Some sample answers (in case this makes it easier - feel free to answer any way you like):
    1) The more the merrier! The more I can do the better.
    2) Love them as long as they are offensive attacks and not complimentary abilities (e.g. boosts or mob debuffs)
    3) I like having them, just don't want to be forced to use them to be successful.
    4) Prefer passive abilities, otherwise gameplay is too demanding & complex.

    As usual I thank you for your feedback.
    1. Click abilities, particularly self buffs that are limited use per rest, should work appropriately regardless of who I'm currently targeting.

    2. The development of click abilities should be cognizant of the "clickiness" of the principal class/play type where they will see use. For example, casters and monks are click heavy, having to manage a lot of cool downs and sequence specific attack chains. Adding more click abilities to such classes should be considered carefully.

    3. As a rule of thumb, after 14 click abilities, I would give serious thought to whether any additional such abilities were worth it.

    4. Offensive click abilities should track other standard abilities of the class for which they are designed. Caster, Ranged clickies should work at range, Melee clickies should work at melee range. etc.

    5. Buffs/Debuffs as click abilities should either be on the stupid powerful, long cool down, short duration or moderately powerful, long duration. Middling buffs/debuffs for 20 seconds just aren't worth it to me.

    6. Click abilities that arise from build investments, e.g. Feat selection or Action Point, should be considerably better than the best alternative that does not require that investment. For example, a click ability that adds +15 exceptional fire resistance in exchange for an investment of 4 action points, is imminently inferior to a Greensteel item with the same property. A druid click attack that provides +4W to a blunt attack is probably still inferior to the spell shillelagh.

    Personally, I use click abilities in 1 of 2 ways:

    1. a standard chain attack, like monk finishers that essentially eternally cycles or

    2. a relatively infrequent but powerful ability, stunning fist, trip, sap, etc.

    Offensive click abilities should either be very easy to cycle and become the new default "auto-attack" sort, or have very powerful effects.

  13. #333
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    I am somewhere around 3 or 4. I like a few, but if I spend all my time watching clickies and not playing the game or enjoying the action then you've sucked all the fun out of it for me.

    There needs to be a limit.

  14. #334
    Community Member Gesh's Avatar
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    Interesting discussion. I like the more active play style of DDO, but I frequently feel overwhelmed by clickies. I have items with capabilities in my pack because in the heat of battle, I frequently forget what I have until afterwards when I say, "Oh, I should have used that," or "oh, there's where my Remove Fear clickie item is." I understand that that is partly experience and skill, but it it is also an interface that doesn't faciliate my using those abilities I think. Maybe some people are really good at setting up their keyboard with shortcuts, for people like me it can seem very difficult. So, I have two suggestions:

    1. Improve the "clickie" interface. Is there some way to organize the quickslot bars better? Some ideas:
    a. A wheel of some sort that you see in other games that you could slot some of your more frequently used clickies. Maybe you hit a certain key (or mouse button if you have one with extra programmable buttons), it pulls up the wheel and you use the scroll wheel to cycle through them quickly and select.
    b. I think I would like some visual representation of my keyboard (or a standard keyboard set-up). Instead of having quickslot "bars," I have an option of pulling up the quickslot "keyboard" representation. It would have standar bound keys already slotted such as A,S, D, W for movement, but for any unbound key you can drag drop icons into empty key slots and then just press that key to activate it. I understand that you can accomplish close to the same thing by binding keys to particular quickbar locations, but I want it to be more simple and most importantly I want it to be visually more obvious where the bindings are. It would be great if the keys could be identified with what they are. What I mean is that I somehow see a small "M" next to the "M" key slot that holds the clickie. That woudl make it easier for me to look and go, "that's right, "M" is my remove poison clickie! I realize that for some who have small monitors, such a potentially large interface element would not be appealing, so I wouldn't suggest removing the ability to continue to do things just like today, but this would be a great additonal option. Maybe it could also have an option to make it semi-transparent.

    2. Macros. I'm sure this might scare those who don't things to be too automated, but I think the game could tolerate optional automation. I'm thinking along two lines:
    a. Something like the weapon sets. It used to be that you had to separately equip the item or shield for each hand, but later Turbine added the ability to create weapon sets that accomplished both with one click. Why not the same for all equipment? As a Fighter I know that I'm going up again fire elementals, so I have my one clickie that equips my frost axe, by Fire Resist cloak, and consumes a Fire Protection potion. Or, maybe I'm a caster and I'm able to hit one key which activates a combo of spells that I determined. This could just be a combo of buffs that I always cast before a fight, or it could be a combo of offensive spells that I want to cast.
    b. I'd like condition based macros. For instance, with my Cleric, maybe I'm able to set it up so that when my health gets to 25% I automatically cast Soundburst, or Heal on myself. I can hear the concerns, "Do you just want to turn yourself into a Hireling??" No, I don't, so maybe you limit how many of these you can set up. I think there has to be a middle ground between totally automating and creating mechanisms that would actually encourage me and others to utilize more the cool abilities that are available in the game but that most of us mere mortals struggle to manage sufficiently in the heat of battle and thus never use. There would still be skill involved in how you set things up so that you don't just waste uses of your clickie abilities or waste spell points.

    Maybe what I'm suggesting would require too much of a rebalancing of the game, but I offer it for consideration as a way to help manage the complexity and actually provide additional methods for allowing players to consider tactics. When I join PUGs, it often seems like the group just blows through content with each person using a relatively limited number of abilities and spells. Maybe this would encourage more experimentation.
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  15. #335
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    I love having clickies, I play a monk which is as close to a caster as you come without stepping over the thresh hold into their domain.
    That being said, on my monk I can not keep up with my clickies as it is. Clickies I use:
    Cleave
    Great Cleave
    Fists of Iron
    Touch of Death
    Air attack IV
    earth attack III
    quivering palm
    stunning blow
    stunning fist
    (clickies from ED if i have them active at the time) (yes that is a lot of different clickies)
    weakness to elements
    human dmg boost
    shadow fade
    water strider
    madstone rage

    different wraps/weapons (grave wrappings, ivy wraps, silver threaded good, banishers, disrupters, smiters, chaos of construct bane, 2 short swords (cuz i could) the Qstaff from villager coms, a shuriken. . .)

    All these used a lot. I can't keep up as pure monk, so to recap. I love clickies. In the current situation I have enough to occupy my time. I do not need a lot more.

  16. #336
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    For attacks clickies make sense; however, most of the abilities that will go from passive to active with the enhancement pass are poor taste and out of character for the abilities. The trouble with clickies, attacks for example, is the delay in which you press them until they actually trigger.
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  17. #337
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadFloyd View Post
    What are your thoughts/tolerances on active abilities as they pertain to your play preferences?
    When I play a caster or more active melee types such as Monks or Paladins I love 'click' abilities. It gives a huge amount of freedom and flexibility to be able to have many different options, each tailored towards getting me through a specific situation.

    However, sometimes I just want to log onto a Barbarian, hit rage, and get to slashing, no watching cooldowns, or using scrolls or clickies, or anything else.

    Having some classes or builds heavily utilize a very clickie intensive playstyle is a good thing. It gives those who want to push their actions per minute a way to get ahead. But I think that shoehorning everyone into doing this, the way that the Enhancement Trees seem to be kind of set up, is not going to go over very well.

  18. #338
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadFloyd View Post
    ...What are your thoughts/tolerances on active abilities as they pertain to your play preferences?
    ...
    For me it is choice 4 because i suffer from lag and so does my computer, ISP and the game servers. Turned based combat would work better for me but I can manage in DDO right now because most of my feats are passive and I generally only use three buttons and two bars to play.

    If too many buttons were needed to play then I would have to quit or find some way to use macros. I have seem some players using macros so it must be possible but until then I like being able to play without too many buttons to mash on.

  19. #339
    Community Member Uidolon's Avatar
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    -sorry for the necro but the post seems to be active again-

    dislike the word "clickie" to mean in one post stunning blow in another madstone rage and in another a spell and a ED stance/boost feel like im watching a smurf movie.
    clickie to me is a planar belt or visor of the flesh render or more shortterm a DP clicky and not a action boost nor stunning blow or a monk move.

    spend lot of time soloing these days and the number of selfbuffs i need to cast+clickies at entrance is not in any way fun there is no choice in what defense layers you carry you can just keep stack a infinite number of defense spell layers on yourself. casting res fire on myself does not make myself more vulnerable against cold for example so you just get both fire and cold there is no trade offs in buffing only have or dont have.

    the time it takes to activate is very key for me switching items then having a slow cast animation takes away from the fun for me as a extreme example i even go as far as often dont use all my endless fusilades since the delay is so large but can understand why this is so but still i simply dont use it unless i really really need to which is only in tedious large hp boss fights.

    stunning blow and things that actually have a tactical impact while not making the game lagg is priceless and so fun also short term boosts with no activation time are very fun but once you start seeing a activation delay most you can get away with not using its simple not a fun playstyle for me


    suggestion:
    id like a toggle on spells like a meta magic that activates on entering a quest casts each spell and detracting its sp cost on loading to have a toggle like this on clickies would be even better
    (ship buffs even more anti fun to me)

  20. #340
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    Quote Originally Posted by ForumAccess View Post
    Having some classes or builds heavily utilize a very clickie intensive playstyle is a good thing. It gives those who want to push their actions per minute a way to get ahead. But I think that shoehorning everyone into doing this, the way that the Enhancement Trees seem to be kind of set up, is not going to go over very well.
    I agree very much with this.

    And EDs have already given players a large amount of new active abilities. Piling even more on with the enhancement pass is just annoying.
    It's definitely an N-word.

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