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  1. #1
    Community Member TheLegendOfAra's Avatar
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    Default The Epic Ranger Hate Continues...

    WARNING: Slight wall of text here.

    So last night I go to join a Echrono PUG(LFM said DPS) in Argo on my pure (Elf)Ranger AA, and I get the following conversation:

    Raid Leader: AA or Melee DPS?
    Me: AA, and Melee DPS.
    Raid Leader: AA or Tempest?
    Me: I'm an Arcane Archer. But I also have melee DPS.
    Raid Leader: Sorry not taking Gimps!

    After which he would no longer respond to my tells. And I really needed to run said Echrono; So I switch toons and grabbed my Monk(Pure (elf)Dark monk, dex/wis build) And hit the LFM. With no tells, or anything the Raid Leader accepts me right away and we start the raid. We finish with little to no difficulty and every one has a good time, right? Wrong. I was extremely annoyed with the Raid Leader for not accepting my AA who has better gear, more survivability, brought more to the party buff-wise, could self heal so as to save the Healers SP/pots. As well as having more DPS than my monk in this case since my monk currently is lacking any DR breakers.

    Now, I would have understood if the party leader had MyDDO'd me and decided my build wasn't up to snuff for the raid, but that was obviously not the case. This was purely a case of "Ranger AA's are gimp" attitude. Now while I'll admit that a Pure elf Ranger AA isn't exactly top-notch DPS and can be out DPS'd bye it's correctly built/played 10K stars counterpart, I can not understand why they get so much hate.

    A little info on my builds for perspective:
    Araphina Skycrow:
    Ranger AA, Elf.
    Chaotic Good

    Str: 29
    Dex: 38
    Con: 24
    Int: --
    Wis: 20
    Cha: --

    HP: 437
    SP: 790

    Being a Premium play my gear set-up may not be optimal, but it does the job and does it well. (still farming out some gear Hence the Echrono run. Come one gauntlets scroll!)

    Helm: Alchemist Crown
    Goggles: Tharnes/Epic Goggles of Time-Sensing
    Trinket: Sustaining Symbiont/The Blood Stone
    Cloak: Epic Phiarlan Mirror Cloak/ +45HP GS/SP conc-op(still farming LDS to finish)/ Epic Mabar cloak
    Necklace: Alchemist Pendant
    Belt: MinII GS
    Wrist: Fabricators Bracers/WindHowlers
    Gloves: Fabricators Gauntlets
    Rings: Tumbleweed and Omnisience
    Boots: Propulsion Boots/Madstone
    Outfit: Still farming my DT so using my Icy for now.

    As far as weapons I have all the obvious things; Both challenge bows, LitII bow, Epic Silver Flame bow, Random loot gen bows with icy/force ritual kits, LitII Khopesh's, various other melee stuff for fun.
    ----------

    Arathaes Skycrow
    Dark Monk, Elf.
    Lawful Good.

    Str: 31(Max I can reach atm)
    Dex: 40
    Con: 18(Max I can reach is 28)
    Int: --
    Wis: Depending on my stance either 30 or 34
    Cha: 8 or 14 if I want to use Shining star ;p

    HP: 427 in Wind Stance, 447 in Ocean, an 467 in Mountain
    Ki: Somewhere around 300

    Helm: +45 HP GS
    Goggles: Tharnes/ Epic Goggles of Time-Sensing
    Trinket: The Blood Stone
    Cloak: Epic Mabar cloak
    Necklace: Wis+6
    Belt: HF of GFL
    Wrist: Fabricators Bracers
    Gloves: Fabricators Gauntlets
    Rings: con+6 and Omnisience
    Boots: Madtsone
    Outfit: Icy/Garments

    Typical Monk stuff for weapons, Thaarak wraps, stunners, smiters, Destruction/imp destruction, alch wraps, Mabar wraps, Silver Kama's/Alch Kama's for zombie DR, Random loot gen stuff with icy/force ritual kits
    -------

    As you can see, I've spent much more time gearing/playing my Ranger, and while my Monk isn't gimped she doesn't stand up to my rangers DPS in Echrono due to no DR breakers and a low str.

    My grief here is, why all ranger hate? (This is NOT by any means the first time this has happened on my ranger, and most likely will not be the last. )

  2. #2
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
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    People are dumb.

    Rangers are in a better spot than rogues. I've been playing my Rogue a ton lately, and she's getting good traction with some but still getting silly declines. Not the best geared rogue on the server, but she's pretty well decked out with raid / epic / whatever loots you might imagine. My only current contemplation is if I take my current abishai bits and give her the full 5, or break them up across multiple toons.

    I also have a FVS who, for a variety of reasons, is still largely wearing is TR and raid gear. ML 11, 12, 13, 14 stuff.



    You know which one gets autodecliend, and which one doesn't right?

    I also have another non-full-caster I've been running through raids/epic PUGs lately - a Monk 7 / Ranger 11 / Fighter 2. I've got him geared in solid, but entirely BTA gear. T1 Epic Ring of the Stalker (Rogue has T3 with both slots used). T1 Epic Frozen Tunic. T1 Cove Brawling Gauntlets. etc.

    Between the ranger and the rogue, you know which one gets autodecliend, and which one doesn't right?




    People can be foolish, ignorant and judgmental.
    Ghallanda - now with fewer alts and more ghostbane

  3. #3
    Community Member Miow's Avatar
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    Really sucks but having to deal with ignorant raid leaders is a fact a of ddo...nothing you can do if he won't listen to reason....

  4. #4
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    I haven't played a ranger. I barely ever think about them unless they're in my party. I just wonder if he would have given you the boot if you'd said one answer instead of two.

  5. #5
    Community Member Talon_Moonshadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dematto View Post
    I haven't played a ranger. I barely ever think about them unless they're in my party. I just wonder if he would have given you the boot if you'd said one answer instead of two.
    The best Rgrs are melee AND ranged.

    and IMO, AA way out does Tempest. (at least Slayer Arrows do.)




    I would also argue that the very fact that any asks a Rgr "melee or ranged" "AA or Tempest"...etc.... says something about the person asking the question...

    (it usually says to me that I would be happier if I just drop group as fast as possible)
    Quote Originally Posted by Jandric View Post
    ..., but I honestly think the solution is to group with less whiny people.

  6. #6
    Community Member PNellesen's Avatar
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    I've got 2 Ranger/Fighters, and they get rejected all the time, and usually the leader doesn't have the grace to even decline the request, just lets it sit there. Both have >500hp, both have various Epic weapons/gear, both are STR based. I've grown to expect to be declined, and not take it personally. I'm likely better off not being in a group that "misinformed"

    "Too many Rangers" has become a running joke in our guild runs now. Even if it's just me
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    While they were at it though, the devs decided to go on an incredible nerfhammer rampage and left nothing in their wake standing...

  7. #7
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    Your character would be a lot better if you had your dex and str scores swapped. STR helps both your melee and ranged damage. The utility of DEX caps once you are hitting mobs on a 2.

    Aside from that, keep farming gear. ToD sets are a major help for rangers. The ravager set alone is 2d6 damage per swing.
    Kmnh * Kmn * Kmm * Knn * Knm

    Leader of Templar

  8. #8
    Community Member goodspeed's Avatar
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    If a ranger of any kind, especially a helf wasn't pulling out a bow every 120 seconds or whatever it is, they'd be gone. Even without any ips you can right well hammer into anything for thousands and thousands of points of dmg in those 20 seconds.

    The raid leader was a dumbass. It's like standing there and explaining how an arti isn't dps. Ya they basically have a roll 20 slayer arrow every 6 seconds blasting force. Topped with at least 180 dmg to every 2 or 3 melee swings. With a boosted 20% fausade.

    Ah well, wait a few months and you'll be a tempest and an arcane archer lol.

  9. #9
    Community Member 96th_Malice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kmnh View Post
    Your character would be a lot better if you had your dex and str scores swapped. STR helps both your melee and ranged damage. The utility of DEX caps once you are hitting mobs on a 2.

    Aside from that, keep farming gear. ToD sets are a major help for rangers. The ravager set alone is 2d6 damage per swing.
    I was going to comment on this as well .... As a player here since day one I have slowly worked up my collection of Elven Arcane Archers and Archers to a quantity of 23.

    I have learned that 32 is high enough dex to hit just about everything. The only toon I have a have a higher than 32 DEX with is my bowbarian and the ONLY reson I am keeping her Dex @ 36 is cause I cant respec her as I'd lose ddo nerfed crit range feats.

    If I may make a suggestion .... If you have the ability to re-incarnate your toon ( meaning just re-do your 20 lvls ) DONT re-level through the XP grind !!

    Anyways ... with whatever tomes and items you have .. redo your dex so it sits @ 32. Put all of the points you have available into STR. It doesn't seem like much BUT going from 26ish str to 36-42 is a HUGE difference especially over 20 seconds of manyshot.

    If you were on Khyber I'd throw ya some turbine points to purchase the heart of wood to try it out.

    Good luck with your toons ..AND with "jerk-ish" raid leaders.

    There is ALWAYS room for AA's in RAIDS ... the party leader just didn't want to loose his kill count to an archer ( maybe let him/her know that next time )

    Later
    " Elize Ryd - Officer @ Band of Gypsys "


    " Trapped in my skin - See the nexus in my dreams - But will you bury me within? "

    Amaranthe - The NeXuS

  10. #10
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    How can you not have DR breakers for chrono on a monk? Just use the search function in the Auction House, search for holy and/or good and/or righteousness, pick the cheapest one, and voila, for probably around 1.000 plat you've got yourself a DR breaker for chrono.

    And about rangers, I'm in the same boat as everyone else, I usually give them a shot at least. I do have some AA rangers on my "friendslist", but they've been given a chance and were found wanting. Either they were of the horrible low HP variety (see that alot with AA rangers unfortunately) who couldn't make up for their lack of HP with skill (which is possible, I've seen 300 HP AA's survive an elite shroud just fine), or they were of the "kite everything" variety, that keep dragging mobs across with map with the melee pack frantically trying to keep up.

    Worst I've met was the AA ranger who we did dreaming dark with. 5 man party had been doing norm runs, getting it down to 9-10 minutes. AA ranger joins, we get to boss, he immediately activates manyshot, agroes the boss and starts running him in circles. Our three melee chase the boss but are incapable of landing any swings, two of them give up and just idle around, waiting for the ranger to finish. We kill the boss, but our 9-10 minute runs just went to a 18 minute run.

    I'm always suspicious about AA rangers, and for good reason, but most of the time I'll give them a chance at least. After a bit of MyDDO'ing if I'm in doubt (plenty of 8 Str AA's out there who don't seem to read the description of Bow Strength).

  11. #11
    Community Member 96th_Malice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clayness View Post
    After a bit of MyDDO'ing if I'm in doubt (plenty of 8 Str AA's out there who don't seem to read the description of Bow Strength).
    Hahaha .... I have to agree with that
    " Elize Ryd - Officer @ Band of Gypsys "


    " Trapped in my skin - See the nexus in my dreams - But will you bury me within? "

    Amaranthe - The NeXuS

  12. #12
    Community Member TheLegendOfAra's Avatar
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    The main reason my ranger is dex based isb because it was my very first toon in ddo. And atm its only a 28pnt build.. when i tr her afer cc i will be more str based as a 12/6/2 build. I was thinking ranger/barb/rouge.

    Also thank you for your responses. Im glad to see that there are some ranger/AA fans out there besides myself.

    And sorry for the short reply, but i,m on y tablet in the back of a cad atm, and for some reason everything is in german!

  13. #13
    Uber Completionist Lithic's Avatar
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    The above were on the first page when you googgle "ranger hate" heh
    Star Firefall
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  14. #14
    Community Member wax_on_wax_off's Avatar
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    I try not to be judgemental but I tend to cringe at the prospect of taking multiple unknown rangers into a raid.

    Just too many bad builds out there that are too easy to cap by staying at the back and pewpewing all the way to level 20 without anyone noticing.

    If I have the time I'll occasionally myDDO an applicant and I'm never surprised to see <350 HP, <100% Fortification and <30 strength. Maybe this is ok in a normal shroud but anything else?
    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
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  15. #15

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    One day, every DDO player will understand that Rangers are a Specialist class that can do viable Melee & Ranged DPS.

    And on that day - The DDO Design team announce DDO2, where Rangers will only TWF or Range *face-palm*

    In all seriousness, I have a Ranger, and I love him to bits for his versatile Melee or Ranged approach.

    So, Ranger Love +1 here.
    The Theorybuild Author
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    Up to this point we've all been beating around the bush. Lolth has a very small box in which you can hit her.

  16. #16
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    These days, in theory, Tempest are the geemps, and the AA's the solid choice. As long as the ranger knows how to stand still while grouped.
    Camp Naughty Bad Fun
    Jichael Mackson

  17. #17
    Community Member Sarisa's Avatar
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    Ranger just happens to be one of the classes that are attractive to players who come from more "fixed role" MMO's. Because of that, you get far too many who think that pumping DEX, dumping CON, not self-healing, and never switching out of a Bow is what a Ranger is about.

    Paladin (permanent shield, never using their smites, no buffing, little self healing), Rogue (dump CON, pump INT/DEX, dump STR, the "I never get aggro" excuse, and overly specializing in traps), and to a lesser extent "Battle" Clerics (don't yet know when to fight and when to heal, don't cast CC spells, little buffing, not healing anyone but themselves) also have bad reputations.

    It's sad when you have to worry about every unknown Ranger, Rogue, Pali, or Fighter splashed Cleric joining your group, but there just happens to be far more of the "bad" ones than the good ones.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarisa View Post
    Ranger just happens to be one of the classes that are attractive to players who come from more "fixed role" MMO's. Because of that, you get far too many who think that pumping DEX, dumping CON, not self-healing, and never switching out of a Bow is what a Ranger is about.

    Paladin (permanent shield, never using their smites, no buffing, little self healing), Rogue (dump CON, pump INT/DEX, dump STR, the "I never get aggro" excuse, and overly specializing in traps), and to a lesser extent "Battle" Clerics (don't yet know when to fight and when to heal, don't cast CC spells, little buffing, not healing anyone but themselves) also have bad reputations.

    It's sad when you have to worry about every unknown Ranger, Rogue, Pali, or Fighter splashed Cleric joining your group, but there just happens to be far more of the "bad" ones than the good ones.
    You forgot the cleric who is a healer and nothing else. you can tell who they are while shrouding or ToDing, full or almost full mana bar constantly...!
    Camp Naughty Bad Fun
    Jichael Mackson

  19. #19
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    That guy? Yeah, total idiot. I was glad to meet you in game, and even though you did out kill me, it was fun(I think it was Tear of Dhaakan?). Anywho, if I were leading a raid, and saw you pop up, I wouldn't ask, nor would I do this "MyDDO" thing people keep ranting about. I'd accept you and boot a barb.

    Have fun,
    Miyatsu

  20. #20
    Community Member 96th_Malice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLegendOfAra View Post
    The main reason my ranger is dex based isb because it was my very first toon in ddo. And atm its only a 28pnt build.. when i tr her afer cc i will be more str based as a 12/6/2 build. I was thinking ranger/barb/rouge.
    Shoot me an in game message .... If you are interested in ranging I can help you a ton . BUT yes if you can get yourself 32 point builds first that would be handy( I wouldnt know how to build a 28 anymorte hehe )

    You can check a few of my toons in myddo ( khyber ) All are AA's

    Katnyss
    Alexsys
    Alexzia
    Danicca
    Nattalie
    Kaeylee ( old school Bowbarian )
    Orianthii
    Ashleagh ( gonna be rogue BUT broken ATM .. hehe )

    Talk to ya soon
    " Elize Ryd - Officer @ Band of Gypsys "


    " Trapped in my skin - See the nexus in my dreams - But will you bury me within? "

    Amaranthe - The NeXuS

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