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  1. #21
    Community Member Vellrad's Avatar
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    Hey I got better idea!
    Lets throw away all the guild ships!
    Instead, give every member of guild a teleport spell like ability, 2 uses at guild level 20, +1 per 10 guild levels.
    Its exactly the same as removing all the buffs, but simplier.

  2. #22

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    Those wishing to not wait for people to buff, why not just state so in the social ad for players:

    No ship buffing during grouping.
    (Nsbdg)

    Make your ship as social as you please.

    For those of us who do like the survival ship buff design, we can have our cake and you can have yours too...

  3. #23
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    Look, I'm not going to go into a lot of detail as I am pressed for time, but let me set a few things straight (before you create any more new attitudes for me):

    I am not complaining about elite guilds, nor am i upset by the attitudes of "elitist" players. It is completely understandable to me that players might feel a need to run exclusively with like-minded and skilled individuals to the exclusion of other less skilled players. Even to the point of creating a guild with that purpose in mind.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mastikator View Post
    Your contempt for people who play a lot is duly noted but unfortunately irrelevant.
    I have no such attitude, nor opinion of that nature.

    However, what I am contemptuous of is a Guild system that encourages a situation where:

    Quote Originally Posted by Untfell View Post
    New players can't join high level guilds (who might otherwise have been very welcoming).
    See the distinction? I understand why some guilds have that approach. To me though, the Guild system *encourages* skilled players to excluded less skilled players. I would have thought that it should work just the opposite, or at the very least have no bearing on the decision. I don't begrudge the attitudes, I just wished they were not actively encouraged by game mechanics.

    OF course some guilds don't care and will invite you regardless of hours logged, so long as you fit with whatever ethos they might support and are not a total ******.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mastikator View Post
    A.K.A. "why can't we all just get along?"
    Not at all. The question is: "Why can't we Guild together?"

    Answer: "We enjoy questing together, get on well, but sorry buddy, you don't earn enough reknown".

    Quote Originally Posted by Mastikator View Post
    Have you considered that it's your hostile attitude towards elitists and "people who log too many hours" that is keeping guilds filled with people that log too many hours from welcoming you? Just saying, you catch more flies with honey.

    If a guild cares more about its guild level than making potential members then that is a failure of the guild, not of the system. All the system does is make sure that a guild of 100% heavy hitters is distinguished for a guild that isn't. Why shouldn't they be distinguished?
    You are reading way too much into my statements...and not enough. How is an observation that:
    Quote Originally Posted by Untfell View Post
    I don't know about you, but when i see a high level guild all I think is "wow, they must log a lot of hours and be really anal about their reknown pots".
    In anyway hostile? it is simply an observation, and one that is more than likely not too far from the truth. It says nothing about the content the guild is running, simply that they care a lot about guild levels. Which in turn. leads to a situation of, no matter how well you get on together, if you don't earn reknown, you're not getting in.


    Quote Originally Posted by McFlay View Post
    I stopped reading right here. Did it ever even occur to you that some people don't want to play with casual noobs?
    Did it every occur to you to at least attempt to understand my point of view, rather than post your little off-base diatribe?

    Anybody that expects to be looked after by more experienced players as soon as they sign in is being naive. As an experienced player though, I feel no desire to Guild with casual players to the detriment of my Guild reknown even though I really don't mind (you might even say it is enjoyable at times) helping new players out, gifting gear, and explaining quests, etc... Others have done it for me, why not pass it on?

    Ever hear a mid level character receive critical hits in a quest only to answer you with a "what's fortification?" Sure you have. Ever gone to the AH and bought them a fort item? I have. Plenty of times.

    And for the record, I am not searching for a guild, nor do I care personally whether I am considered a noob. I have been in a small reknown farming guild, I had the misfortune to travel overseas for 4 weeks and *gasp* not play DDO. As a result I was kicked for inactivity. I knew it was coming, I told them I was going. Such is life. I bear no ill will towards them as I understand the situation they are in. Since returning from my holidays I have grouped my former guild on a number of occasions, I have even been invited back. I respectfully declined.

    I have also had offers, as I am sure many players have, from "respected" guilds on my server. I am happy in my small guild, playing with a small group of easy going people. Currently Guild level 62.5-ish, I am not stressed about running content. Never done Abbot, never done TOD, I'll get around to it. I enjoy'd Epics daily unitl the scroll issue, and since then i have sorta not got back into them.

    In fact, the only thing that currently bothers me about my Guild is that I cannot use Large Augment slot items. Annoying, but hardly game-breaking.

    I also have a couple of characters in another small guild, filled with RL friends that only play 1-2 a week at best. It is a blast. Those guys would never have a hope of being accepted into any guild that cared about reknown, regardless of their skill level. It is sad to me.

    My issue isn't about what I expect for myself, it is how I perceive the Guild system relating to the general player base. To me, and maybe it's only me, the Guild system actively discourages good players (who might be otherwise inclined) from guilding with new, or less active, accounts.

    All this talk about my hostile attitude is rubbish. I am very helpful to players in game, make time for new people allll the time. I PUG a lot. PUG raids like Shroud and Hound on my FVS (well, not atm as he is TR'd) just becasue I like to help, not because I need mats or drops. I make time for my guild as best as i can. I play (guess) 4-5 hours a day on average, most days. Working from home has it's benefits.

    Apologies for any spelling or grammar, as I stated at the beginning, I am quite pushed for time atm. Hopefully I have made my position a little clearer and more understandable.

  4. #24
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    Ship buffs are a horrible thing, should have never been here, and I would be giggling with joy for a week if they were to be removed. So much waste of time and trivialized content...
    Kmnh * Kmn * Kmm * Knn * Knm

    Leader of Templar

  5. #25
    Community Member psi0nix's Avatar
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    I don't think there is anything wrong with the way the current guild renown etc is setup.

    "I am not complaining about elite guilds"

    Yet large parts of your posts, are.

    When I put up a LFM for a raid / epic / elite Q, and I see players join with a high level guild attached to their name, It tells me straight away, that they "should" be very competent players who need no instructions / babysitting, and that they will perform well.

    It comes across that you are bitter about being removed from a guild, best to take it up with them.

    The guild I am in doesn't look at the "renown" a player generates to judge if they are acceptable, it looks at what kind of player you are in general, I would think most high level guilds are the same, good players generate renown as a by-product, it's just the way it works, and should work.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by psi0nix View Post
    I don't think there is anything wrong with the way the current guild renown etc is setup.

    "I am not complaining about elite guilds"

    Yet large parts of your posts, are.

    Incorrect. I am complaining about the mechanics that encourage certain behavior in guilds (to levels greater than what it might be without said system).

    [quote]
    When I put up a LFM for a raid / epic / elite Q, and I see players join with a high level guild attached to their name, It tells me straight away, that they "should" be very competent players who need no instructions / babysitting, and that they will perform well.

    It comes across that you are bitter about being removed from a guild, best to take it up with them.
    Nothing to take up as that is an imaginary issue. I am in a Guild, two in fact, and quite happy with the ppl I play with. I have only ever been removed from one guild, with no hard feelings and that was before Xmas.

    The guild I am in doesn't look at the "renown" a player generates to judge if they are acceptable, it looks at what kind of player you are in general, I would think most high level guilds are the same, good players generate renown as a by-product, it's just the way it works, and should work.
    I wouldn't think that at all. Would your guild take fun people that play one day a week for 4 hours, and some weeks 0? Most high level guilds I've seen wouldn't accept that (and fair enough).

  7. #27
    Community Member psi0nix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Untfell View Post
    I wouldn't think that at all. Would your guild take fun people that play one day a week for 4 hours, and some weeks 0? Most high level guilds I've seen wouldn't accept that (and fair enough).
    Yes they would, keeping in mind that the player competancy does come into it, and generally speaking those who don't play much aren't as "good" as those who do, (note the "generally", there are always exceptions).

    But if a player has shown that they are "good" players and can manage their own life in any given quest / raid then there would be no problem.

    Myself I mainly play on weekends, and there was no problem with joining the guild, after I had run a bit with some of the guild members and shown my playstyle etc and personality does play a part.


    I cannot speak for all guilds of course, but it would be sad to think that membership is based on renown generation alone and to be honest I haven't seen that attitude from any guild I've had dealings with.

  8. #28
    Community Member Falco_Easts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by psi0nix View Post
    I don't think there is anything wrong with the way the current guild renown etc is setup.

    "I am not complaining about elite guilds"

    Yet large parts of your posts, are.

    When I put up a LFM for a raid / epic / elite Q, and I see players join with a high level guild attached to their name, It tells me straight away, that they "should" be very competent players who need no instructions / babysitting, and that they will perform well.

    It comes across that you are bitter about being removed from a guild, best to take it up with them.

    The guild I am in doesn't look at the "renown" a player generates to judge if they are acceptable, it looks at what kind of player you are in general, I would think most high level guilds are the same, good players generate renown as a by-product, it's just the way it works, and should work.
    I think his point is that you should expect a high level guild to be full of good comepetant players and fair enough. Unfortunately a lot of good compentant players are not welcome in some guilds anymore, not because of skill but because of play time limitations. A poor player willl still get more renown then a casual skilled player. The current guild renown setup rewards available play time, not skill level.

    Anyway, back on topic please guys. I see the thread has been cleaned up at least once already.
    A friend will bail you out of jail.
    A mate will be sitting in there beside you saying "Damn that was awsome!!!"

    Unguilded of Orien

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Falco_Easts View Post
    I think his point is that you should expect a high level guild to be full of good comepetant players and fair enough. Unfortunately a lot of good compentant players are not welcome in some guilds anymore, not because of skill but because of play time limitations. A poor player willl still get more renown then a casual skilled player. The current guild renown setup rewards available play time, not skill level.

    Anyway, back on topic please guys. I see the thread has been cleaned up at least once already.
    Well put. Sorry about the slight derailment there .

  10. #30
    Community Member gerardIII's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Falco_Easts View Post
    The current guild renown setup rewards available play time, not skill level.
    You're right, a noob completing 1 quest per hour and playing 5 hours a day will get more renown than a skilled player completing 5 quests per hour and playing 2 hours a day.

    Quote Originally Posted by Falco_Easts View Post
    Add
    • Guild bulletin boards.
    • Guild armourer/weapon smith that can add a temporary guild skin to weapons and armour, similar to a guild uniform.
    • Guild mass mail
    • Guild officer levels.
    • Guild trophy cabinet.
    Guild forum with newsletter. Way better than limited ingame features.

    I want to keep my buffs.
    Last edited by gerardIII; 04-26-2012 at 04:02 AM.

  11. #31
    Community Member Falco_Easts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerardIII View Post
    You're right, a noob completing 1 quest per hour and playing 5 hours a day will get more renown than a skilled player completing 5 quests per hour and playing 2 hours a day.
    Nice try. How about the same ratio applied to a new player who can play for 3 hours a day and a vet player who can only play 4 hours a fortnight? Or once a week for their guilds raid night.

    You should not have to play daily to not be a detriment to your guild.
    A friend will bail you out of jail.
    A mate will be sitting in there beside you saying "Damn that was awsome!!!"

    Unguilded of Orien

  12. #32
    Community Member butcheredspirit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Falco_Easts View Post
    You should not have to play daily to not be a detriment to your guild.
    Yea definitely this.

    It's the guild level system I don't like. I don't really even see why we need guild levels.
    Either give us the buffs or don't.

    I like the small, close knit guild I'm in.
    I don't think people should have to choose between buffs, and a small friendly guild.

  13. #33
    Community Member SiliconScout's Avatar
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    One potential solution might be to tweak a formula where by when you are logged in you are causing guild decay.

    Base it on the guild size and your character level (or just guild size).

    Basic (and likely not workable) Formula idea could be something like

    1 * guild Level per hour (prorated for time played and charged ever hour logged in or when you logout).


    So if my guild is level 60 and we have 10 toons playing for a combined total of say 50 hours that day then my level 60 guild is going to take a 3000 guild renown (50 hours * 60 guild level) hit that day.

    I only have 1 player on that level 60 guild and he plays for 2.5 hours today then the guild takes a (60*2.5) 150 renown hit.


    This formula is probably a little light but it should serve to illustrate the idea. Adding in some kind of level calculation probably makes sense as well (higher levels seem to earn more renown)

    Basically when you play you are costing the guild renown, when you aren't you aren't.

    Thus inactive players don't hurt you and I would think that large or small guild numbers are less relevant.

    If the guild takes a week off they don't come back and find they've lost a level either.

    This way a guy who plays 1 hour a day doesn't hurt / help the guild any more proportionally than the guy who plays 10.


  14. #34
    The Hatchery danotmano1998's Avatar
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    I'm not sure if you're aware, but just in case you missed it...

    (Guild): The Build Your Guild event is currently active! Be sure to help new and returning players level up and earn extra renown for your guild! See DDO.com for details on this event.
    <-Curelite Bottling Company->

    Quote Originally Posted by Chilldude
    Dude, did you see they way that guy just pressed button 1? It was amazing! A display of skill unseen since the 1984 World Games where in the men's room, between events, a man washed his hands with such unbridled majesty that people were claiming the faucet he used was OP.

  15. #35
    Community Member Scalion's Avatar
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    My 2 cents..


    Buffs - As a melee I wouldn't want to lose them. Casters just seem way overpowered 95% of the time (the 5% being when they are out of SP) AND they can cast these buffs themselves if necessary. The buffs (resists mostly) give characters like my main the ability to actually enjoy the game even when a full group isn't available.


    Guild Leveling - I would rather the decay be removed and the xp required to level raised based on the number of active players are in the guild. I guess it just depends on what % of guilds turbine thinks should be able to hit any given level range, and it's up to them to decide. If turbine wanted to make it possible for any guild that keeps plugging away to eventually level up they can remove decay. If they want a max level guild to be a really rare thing then the decay is the way to control that.

  16. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by danotmano1998 View Post
    I'm not sure if you're aware, but just in case you missed it...

    (Guild): The Build Your Guild event is currently active! Be sure to help new and returning players level up and earn extra renown for your guild! See DDO.com for details on this event.
    Lol, yes I might have missed it, thanks...
    Quote Originally Posted by Scalion View Post
    My 2 cents..


    Buffs - As a melee I wouldn't want to lose them. Casters just seem way overpowered 95% of the time (the 5% being when they are out of SP) AND they can cast these buffs themselves if necessary. The buffs (resists mostly) give characters like my main the ability to actually enjoy the game even when a full group isn't available...
    This is well said.

    My completionist project quickly learned, some classes really need some things.
    Cannot count on a perfect group ~ ship buff, grap a hire and lets go!


    Its kinda funny, people say ship buffs slow them down AND trivilize content?
    These two kinda contradict each other.
    If you are in a hurry, why worry about making content harder?

  17. #37
    Community Member herzkos's Avatar
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    i'm still in favor of the method i proposed way back in november:
    Do away with the renown decay and make renown a commodity similar to plat.

    Officers/leaders can spend guild renown to purchase amenities for the ship.
    The better the amenity/buff, the higher the cost. Guilds that want the whole
    enchilada of ship buffs can do so, but they are going to be going through serious
    renown.
    If your guild doesn't want/need all of the buffs, just buy what you need and bank the
    renown .

    As to my view of ship buffs, that hasn't changed much either:
    They are nice but the game should not be balanced in any way shape or form for them.
    If you want to use them, accept that you are using an "easy button" or maybe an "easier button".

    /edit for the original post i made . .
    http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php...34#post4157134
    Last edited by herzkos; 04-27-2012 at 02:38 PM.
    The Office of the Exchequer. 1750 on all live servers via Pure pugging. Thank you very much to all who helped carry a gimp . (wayfinder was a soloist build)


  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverleafeon View Post
    Lol, yes I might have missed it, thanks...
    This is well said.

    My completionist project quickly learned, some classes really need some things.
    Cannot count on a perfect group ~ ship buff, grap a hire and lets go!


    Its kinda funny, people say ship buffs slow them down AND trivilize content?
    These two kinda contradict each other.
    If you are in a hurry, why worry about making content harder?
    It slows parties down. There are many quests and raids with lockout mechanisms, where you need to wait until everyone is inside to start the quest. Between the invite-begging and the actual buffing, it easily adds 5-10 minutes to each raid run, when most raids in DDO have been completed in 20 minutes or less. If we could start the raid and let the slow people get in later, I wouldn't mind the buffs nearly as much.

    Trivializing content is more of an issue at lower levels. Those kobold shamans and troglodyte warlocks used to strike fear into the newbie's hearts, at least on elite. Now they deal 10 damage or so with a fireball/chain lightning.
    Kmnh * Kmn * Kmm * Knn * Knm

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  19. #39
    Founder Solmage's Avatar
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    Before ship buffs, you were expected to bring your own resists in most any high-end group, my fighter still had stacks of 20pt pots back in the day, and items with 30pt resists for that reason.

    If you think my caster or divine doesn't have anything better to do with his mana or time than cast multiple resists x 12, think again.

    If you don't like to wait for people to buff, don't wait. Post an LFM that says so. I know of at least some "Fast Shroud, starting in 30 seconds after last person joins" that have booted people when they go for ship buffs when it's about to start.
    Devs: Thanks for making Druids available to VIPs without the pack. This more than anything, has made me want to buy the pack.

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