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  1. #461
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Avalon- View Post
    Yes, it is called Vancian Magic... which, btw, in 2nd edition an extra book appeared: Skills and Powers (I believe) that added optional spell point system (much like in DDO), 3rd Edition has an alternative for Spell Points as well. and 4th Edition just said screw it and threw Vance out the window...

    Point is, What you refer to, was only the mandatory way for 1 1/2 editions... Spell Points were an option that was readily available (if not forced through having At-Will/Encounter/Daily spells in 4th) for 2 1/2 Editions... so, you tell me, which way seems more prevalent? Seems players like points more than Vancian.
    I like the way D&D Next is handling it...at least with Wizards your cantrips are at-will and the rest is vancian with whatever you specialize in working more like encounter powers (basically the "words" that would normally burn out of your head are still their it just takes a bit of time to recover form the "trauma)

    Sorcerors have something akin to spellpoints called willppower and when they run out they go into kind of a berseker fury where they take on dragon like aspects based on their chosen heritage
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  2. #462

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    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post
    I like the way D&D Next is handling it...at least with Wizards your cantrips are at-will and the rest is vancian with whatever you specialize in working more like encounter powers (basically the "words" that would normally burn out of your head are still their it just takes a bit of time to recover form the "trauma)

    Sorcerors have something akin to spellpoints called willppower and when they run out they go into kind of a berseker fury where they take on dragon like aspects based on their chosen heritage
    Yeah, but some of the responses to feedback lead me to think they might be moving to a more hybrid model. Particularly the quote on memorizing dailies for players who want more of a vancian feel.

    http://community.wizards.com/dndnext...laytest_packet

    "Keep in mind that we’re still working out these mechanics, but we’d also like it if a player could choose how many spells of the various frequencies to memorize. Want to play a 4E-style wizard? Prepare some spells that refresh after 10 minutes, some spells that don’t come back until the end of the day, and some spells that you can cast at-will. Want to play a classic pure-1E-style wizard? Only prepare spells that refresh at the end of the day."

    I liked the cantrip / orison concept with more Vancian higher level spells but that quote has me wondering.

  3. #463
    Community Member -Avalon-'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post
    I like the way D&D Next is handling it...at least with Wizards your cantrips are at-will and the rest is vancian with whatever you specialize in working more like encounter powers (basically the "words" that would normally burn out of your head are still their it just takes a bit of time to recover form the "trauma)

    Sorcerors have something akin to spellpoints called willppower and when they run out they go into kind of a berseker fury where they take on dragon like aspects based on their chosen heritage
    I like spell points. Vancian magic was about flavor, it should have been world specific, just like using the weave is in Forgotten Realms and no Deities in Dark Sun, and spell power based on phase of the moon in Krynn.

    Using it as the template for spell casting is just dumb. Absolutely no reason other than flavor at this point to limit casters to "per day" type stuff. Does the fighter forget how to swing his sword after so many swings? The rogue forget how to pick locks after he does it 10 times? Why would the wizard forget his mainstay bread n butter abilities? Lord knows he can back up those spells by swinging that dagger and firing a crossbow with a half BAB chart right? lol

    Yeah... purely flavor, and it should be kept that way. Casters should have a pool of mana/spell points, and when they run out, they just rest for a while and get em back... just like a fighter should have to rest periodically, because he gets tired of swinging a sword like a madman for 4 hours straight, don't care what his con is (unless it is over 50 or something)...

    In fact, should make some mechanic that sort of makes the amount of time a melee can go equals one hour per 10 constitution... Because the average person (10 Con) could probably force themselves to do an hours exertion like an adventurer could... a person with 20, doubly so. At 50, could go for 5 hours straight without needing to sit down for an hour or so to recoup.

    The game just needs balance on how classes are handled. Don't need to turn melee attacks into "spell-like abilities" like they did in 4th... that was dumb imo also. wizard? cleric? yeah, can do it that way I guess... but there should never be a time when the wizard is just run dry, unless melees also suffer the same problem. Maybe give fighters "Attack Points" and when they do certain attacks, they spend points just like a wizard does, and when they run out, they need to rest for at least 4 hours (each hour gives 25% back) to get full up again...
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  4. #464
    Community Member Lyria's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Avalon- View Post
    I like spell points. Vancian magic was about flavor, it should have been world specific, just like using the weave is in Forgotten Realms and no Deities in Dark Sun, and spell power based on phase of the moon in Krynn.

    Using it as the template for spell casting is just dumb. Absolutely no reason other than flavor at this point to limit casters to "per day" type stuff. Does the fighter forget how to swing his sword after so many swings? The rogue forget how to pick locks after he does it 10 times? Why would the wizard forget his mainstay bread n butter abilities? Lord knows he can back up those spells by swinging that dagger and firing a crossbow with a half BAB chart right? lol
    Back when I ran a D&D game regularly, I sat down and pretty much re-wrote the game for a lot of different things, to fit the world I wanted to have it set in. I had a 90-page "players' handbook" that I went to Kinkos and had bound for the players, so they could keep it on hand and read up on all the changes I made.

    One major one was segmenting wizards (there was no "sorcerer" class in my world) into seven "mage clans", each with their own style of casting spells.

    One was a more or less traditional D&D mage with memorized spell-slots, but all spells had all three component types (V,S,M), and was missing the conjuration/necromancy schools -- they were pretty much evokers, for the most part, with some utility spells.

    Then there were the conjurors (I dug up every single conjuration spell I could find, and came up with a bunch more), who would summon up all manner of things to do their bidding. They were the only clan with familiars, as well.

    Then necromancers, enchanters, sorcerers (they used "words of power", all their spells were verbal only, but they were a very "new" clan, and had very few spells beyond 5th level, as they were rediscovering the magic of "the ancients", basically the precursor elves), druids (shapeshifters and animal/plant controllers, without all the elemental spells), etc.

    One of the first adventures had the party going up against a rogue druid who'd gone insane and was attacking several small towns with colonies of giant ants.

  5. #465
    Community Member kingfisher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lyria View Post
    One of the first adventures had the party going up against a rogue druid who'd gone insane and was attacking several small towns with colonies of giant ants.

    what no U16 spoiler alert? jeez....

  6. #466

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    Quote Originally Posted by kingfisher View Post
    what no U16 spoiler alert? jeez....
    I saw 2 spoilers on the U16 preview. Resonance for the spellsinger tree and Wassail for the warchanter tree. I doubt they were meant to appear in that preview and they don't actually seem to do anything at this time.

  7. #467
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Avalon- View Post
    I like spell points. Vancian magic was about flavor, it should have been world specific, just like using the weave is in Forgotten Realms and no Deities in Dark Sun, and spell power based on phase of the moon in Krynn.
    Well good news they've decided to say screw t everyone wants something different so were implementing all of them...want your Wizard to use Vancian, 4e style, spell points, w/e were putting all the variations in and letting you choose (possibly your DM)
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  8. #468
    Community Member kingfisher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aashrym View Post
    I saw 2 spoilers on the U16 preview. Resonance for the spellsinger tree and Wassail for the warchanter tree. I doubt they were meant to appear in that preview and they don't actually seem to do anything at this time.
    sarcasm buddy, he was talking about a pnp dungeon he made which sounded like it would fit right in with the harper/druid stuff. relax ash.

  9. #469

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    Quote Originally Posted by kingfisher View Post
    sarcasm buddy, he was talking about a pnp dungeon he made which sounded like it would fit right in with the harper/druid stuff. relax ash.
    I'm always relaxed. Almost.

  10. #470
    Community Member Ellihor's Avatar
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    I just hope the dev's meet theyr promise and give some love to drow. I TRed today my wizard for her last life as drow, and id be really disapointed if the enhancements pass only beef human.

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