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  1. #1
    Developer MadFloyd's Avatar
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    Default LET'S TALK: Enhancements Update

    Hey all,

    We just made the decision to postpone the new enhancement system until after XPack. A lot of work has been done on it, but too much remains and, more importantly, there's not enough time to iterate on the design and address feedback we've received so far.

    We're sad; the systems team has put in a lot of long hours towards this, but it's the right thing to do.

    Thanks again for all the feedback and support.
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  2. #2
    Community Member Hobgoblin's Avatar
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    Thanks for the update!

    Can you give us any hints? Like if all presiges are done to tier 3?

    thanks!

    hob
    main toons: hauteur(silly caster) Sttomper (silly barbarian)-jammiee (Silly paladin)
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  3. #3
    Community Member Zess-wolf's Avatar
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    Well, thanks for letting us know...

    But anyway, not even a small sneek-a-peek on them before the release?(like...hum...right now...) Hints? Kokoon?

    Cheers

    Zess
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  4. #4
    Scholar Of Adventure & Hero Missing_Minds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadFloyd View Post
    Hey all,

    We just made the decision to postpone the new enhancement system until after XPack. A lot of work has been done on it, but too much remains and, more importantly, there's not enough time to iterate on the design and address feedback we've received so far.

    We're sad; the systems team has put in a lot of long hours towards this, but it's the right thing to do.

    Thanks again for all the feedback and support.
    Well.. you realize then that the continuing right thing to do by our absurdly high standards is to keep talking.

  5. #5
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadFloyd View Post
    Hey all,

    We just made the decision to postpone the new enhancement system until after XPack. A lot of work has been done on it, but too much remains and, more importantly, there's not enough time to iterate on the design and address feedback we've received so far.

    We're sad; the systems team has put in a lot of long hours towards this, but it's the right thing to do.

    Thanks again for all the feedback and support.
    Take all the time you need, as much as I'm looking forward to this change (and somewhat dreading it :P) I'd rather it see it delayed than get a inferior system.

    That said any chance we can get at look at something, anything to give us an idea where you guys are at...my C-Card is burning a hole in my pocket waiting to pre-order the expansion but honestly it all depends on the enhancement system, as big as the Xpack is IMHO this is MUCH bigger.
    Last edited by Failedlegend; 04-14-2012 at 03:38 PM.
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  6. #6
    Hero DemonStorm333's Avatar
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    Makes me kinda sad was really looking forward to fine tuning it during beta so I had a clue as to what I need to do for my toons but one ? That comes to mind is how will this affect the epic enhancements when the xpack comes out if the trees are comming out after the pack..
    Demons run when a good man goes to war

  7. #7
    Community Member redoubt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post
    Take all the time you need, as much as I'm looking forward to this change (and somewhat dreading it :P) I'd rather it see it delayed than get a inferior system.

    That said any chance we can get at look at something, anything to give us an idea where you guys are at...my C-Card is burning a hole in my pocket waiting to pre-order the expansion but honestly it all depends on the enhancement system, as big as the Xpack is IMHO this is MUCH bigger.
    This is very siimilar to how I feel about it.

    I'm considering buy the xpack and re-upping my vip sub, but I'm worried how the new enhancement system will affect my characters. I'm also now worried that this is a means to allay our fears of the enhancement change to get us to purchase the xpack because you know that what your doing to enhancements would keep groups of people from purchasing the pack.

    All that to say, I'd still like to see what the enhancements are going to look like before I drop money on something like a collectors edition expansion. The system doesn't need to be functional yet, I would just like to see how you intend the trees for each class to look. How the enhancements tie together and what the pre-reqs are.

    I'll take the time to plan it out on paper, but I need the enhancement trees you are planning to implement to do so.
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  8. #8
    The Crafting Mogul
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    Ah, that gives me a

    Can't wait until it is live and we get to see what you have created, from the sounds of it a lot of hard work and dedication has went into this system and it should be pretty amazing!

    As always, thank you for keeping us in the loop, your community interaction has been amazing and is greatly appreciated, ignore anyone who says otherwise!
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  9. #9
    Community Member ShadowFlash's Avatar
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    Looks like my/wife's main is taking a sabatical then, as I refuse to TR into an unknown. Likewise, no expansion pack for us either, as our toons are not directly built for end-game content.

    Disclaimer: Multi-Class Builds relying on a combination of class/racial/Pre enhancements wil be broken...period. I'm perfectly OK with this...the change will probablly give me more options, but I'm not gonna be caught half-way through leveling a broken build.

    Example: My wife's elf 1rogue/11ranger/8bard AA/warchanter

    Racial Tree
    Racial AA Tree
    Warchanter Tree

    Only One more tree to invest in...

    Favored Enemies are moving to the Deepwood Sniper Tree
    Extra Song Enhancements are moving to the Virtuoso Tree
    No Rogue Tree loses Haste Boost I and Sneak Attack Training
    No Bard Tree loses Wand and Scroll Mastery
    No base Ranger tree loses Sprint and skill boosts


    No matter how you look at it, this build will get substantailly weaker. Again, I'm OK with the fact that this build may no longer be viable, but if I'm 1/2 way through a TR on it, a simple "free" enhancement re-spec will not "fix" it....an entire re-roll or multiple LR's will be needed at great $expense$.

    /not happy


    ShadowFlash
    Last edited by ShadowFlash; 04-14-2012 at 05:00 PM.
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  10. #10
    Community Member Calebro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowFlash View Post
    Disclaimer: Multi-Class Builds relying on a combination of class/racial/Pre enhancements wil be broken...period.
    DooOOOOoooOOo00000ooooOOOOoo00000MMMMM!!!!!!111!!! 1eleventy!!!!!!

    You do realize that his announcement means that *nothing* will be changing when the XPack hits, and therefore nothing will be broken, right?
    No builds will be broken.
    No one's build currently relies on a combination of class/racial/Pre enhancements because many of them do not exist yet, so they can't be broken. Once the changes to take effect, if you're in the middle of leveling, at the very worst you'll be looking at the possibility of having a few unoptimized enhancements until you get to cap again.
    It isn't going to be the end of the world. And as a matter of fact, with the kind of trepidation that you seem to be feeling about the coming changes, this announcement should be welcome news for you.
    .

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calebro View Post
    You do realize that his announcement means that *nothing* will be changing when the XPack hits, and therefore nothing will be broken, right?
    No builds will be broken.
    No one's build currently relies on a combination of class/racial/Pre enhancements because many of them do not exist yet, so they can't be broken. Once the changes to take effect, if you're in the middle of leveling, at the very worst you'll be looking at the possibility of having a few unoptimized enhancements until you get to cap again.
    It isn't going to be the end of the world. And as a matter of fact, with the kind of trepidation that you seem to be feeling about the coming changes, this announcement should be welcome news for you.
    I think Shadowflash' assertion is that if the types of enhancements needed to meet the desired goals change, then the feats needed could change and the distribution of levels between classes could change, and thus the character would have to be scrapped because you can't fix all that with just an enhancement respec.

    ... Because heavens forbid you just continue to play a slightly less optimized character.

  12. #12
    Community Member Calebro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Octopusfluff View Post
    ... Because heavens forbid you just continue to play a slightly less optimized character.
    .... temporarily even. Oh, the humanity!

    The question that I've been wanting an answer to for quite some time now is that of Dragonmarks.
    It was stated that you were considering condensing them into a single feat, with enhancements to both add more uses and increase tiers. Has there been any headway made toward this occurring, or has the idea been scrapped?
    (my assumption is that even if it's still going forward, that it will wait until the enhancement revamp at the least, being as the two are somewhat tied together)
    .

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calebro View Post
    .... temporarily even. Oh, the humanity!
    Well, being fair, it's only temporarily if he then goes and does the reincarnation thing. Which DOES have a cost associated.

    Quote Originally Posted by Calebro View Post
    The question that I've been wanting an answer to for quite some time now is that of Dragonmarks.
    It was stated that you were considering condensing them into a single feat, with enhancements to both add more uses and increase tiers. Has there been any headway made toward this occurring, or has the idea been scrapped?
    (my assumption is that even if it's still going forward, that it will wait until the enhancement revamp at the least, being as the two are somewhat tied together)
    I'd like to know about this, too. I've always wanted to play with dragonmarks, but I could never really justify three feat slots for them.

  14. #14
    Community Member EnjoyTheJourney's Avatar
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    The agenda for the spring and summer seemed overcrowded with substantive and potentially far reaching changes, with the potential for a massive amount of bug fixing if things didn't go smoothly. So, to me this announcement is more a relief than a disappointment.

    If something needed to be pushed back, then I'm glad this was it.

  15. #15
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Octopusfluff View Post
    I... Because heavens forbid you just continue to play a slightly less optimized character.
    IMO Its not so much that his CURRENT build won't function as well...the game changes it happens the main issue is that this will be a HUGE dillemma for ALL (pre-trees AND post-trees) multi-class builds causing alot of extras you get by multiclassing to be lost because of an arbitrary tree limit that barely affect pure builds. The 80AP limit is all thats needed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  16. #16
    Community Member ShadowFlash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post
    IMO Its not so much that his CURRENT build won't function as well...the game changes it happens the main issue is that this will be a HUGE dillemma for ALL (pre-trees AND post-trees) multi-class builds causing alot of extras you get by multiclassing to be lost because of an arbitrary tree limit that barely affect pure builds. The 80AP limit is all thats needed.
    Thank you Failed & Octopus...feel free to look over my post history, I am not a Doom & gloomer, nor am I uber-Elite. I consider myself the average joe who likes to have a better than average working knowledge of game mechanics and builds....It's what I enjoy.

    My builds are almost always multi-classed and that pinch of flavor, versatility, and utility gained from a few AP's spent in a splashed class is important. Taking 11 levels of ranger for all the feats and a few buffs is certainly still unaffected and great, but favored enemies moving to the deepwood sniper tree, thus locking out an entire other tree for simple perks like haste boost, is definately worth build consideration and a needless handicap.

    Without the 3 Tree limit (+1 base racial), I would have no worries or fears whatsoever and would continue merrily on my way with the confidence that any build could be re-specced with a greater ease to finish it's life. The feat requirements needed currently potentially being dropped to access certain PrE's is still a concern, but for the most part, I'm worried more about the AP system.

    ShadowFlash
    All the math your brain can handle concerning Divine Punishment
    http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=344769

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post
    ... the main issue is that this will be a HUGE dillemma for ALL (pre-trees AND post-trees) multi-class builds causing alot of extras you get by multiclassing to be lost because of an arbitrary tree limit that barely affect pure builds. The 80AP limit is all thats needed.
    ^This.

    So by all means, take your time. Maybe in that time you can come up with a variant that doesn't penalize multiclassing. And if you can't, I'll have had more fun longer. In fact, if you insist on a system that penalizes multiclassing but delay it to Q4 2012, I might not complain at all.
    I am profoundly disappointed with the current state and direction of DDO, and my purchasing habits reflect this. A drastic improvement in quality of life, transparency, and honest communication would improve my spending. Promises and "more squeeze" will not.

  18. #18
    Community Member ShadowFlash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calebro View Post
    DooOOOOoooOOo00000ooooOOOOoo00000MMMMM!!!!!!111!!! 1eleventy!!!!!!

    You do realize that his announcement means that *nothing* will be changing when the XPack hits, and therefore nothing will be broken, right?
    No builds will be broken.
    No one's build currently relies on a combination of class/racial/Pre enhancements because many of them do not exist yet, so they can't be broken. Once the changes to take effect, if you're in the middle of leveling, at the very worst you'll be looking at the possibility of having a few unoptimized enhancements until you get to cap again.
    It isn't going to be the end of the world. And as a matter of fact, with the kind of trepidation that you seem to be feeling about the coming changes, this announcement should be welcome news for you.
    ummm...the build I listed as an example certainly does exist and relies on a combination of Class/Racial/ and PrE Enhancements. The contention shown in my REAL example is more than a few unoptomized points.

    I'm not implying DoooMM!!!1111....I actually welcome this change and am greatly looking forward to it. The fact that this build will more than likely, from what we know at this point, be broken is NOT a big deal to us. We will miss it for sure if it is no longer viable, but not a big deal. What I don't want is to be caught in a build like this, which depends on a large dagree of versatility, to be caught in a postion where entire segments of it's build are wasted. It just waits this particular toon will be in a holding pattern until we know a LOT more.

    This news is a mixed blessing...I'm glad more time is being taken to get things closer to right before it's released, but the longer it's postponed means the un-likely hood of rolling any "flavored" builds. The hard-core will surely not be as affected as the casual player...and Min/Max Power TR Builder's will just shrug and power-level then TR. For those that play for fun, and with a casual approach (read:flowersniffing 6months-1year to level to 20) this is definatley NOT the time for a heavily splashed versatility/utility flovorish build to be started.

    ShadowFlash
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  19. #19
    Founder Nyvn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadFloyd View Post
    Hey all,

    We just made the decision to postpone the new enhancement system until after XPack. A lot of work has been done on it, but too much remains and, more importantly, there's not enough time to iterate on the design and address feedback we've received so far.

    We're sad; the systems team has put in a lot of long hours towards this, but it's the right thing to do.

    Thanks again for all the feedback and support.

    MadFloyd,

    I'm glad you guys are taking the time to do this correctly. It's a big change for the game. Also in the spirit of doing things right, how about some info; so we can give feedback?

  20. #20
    Super Hero Arkat's Avatar
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    I haz a sad.
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