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  1. #381
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gurei View Post
    Sorcs have, as everybody knows, four prestiges: Water, Fire, Earth, and Air. It seems to have been said rather explicitly that there are only THREE class prestige trees, leaving one too few for my beloved sorceror plans. Will there be four separate trees for each prestige PLUS the racial tree?
    Actually that would make for 5 PrEs because are also gettin AotS, but that you don't have to worry about because its already been stated that Savant will be a single PrE you would just choose the element and the enhancements would adjust accordingly. That begs the question of what the 3rd PrE is going to be (Since its X Savant & AotS right now) I'm hoping for "X" Dragon Disciple (Color ie. Red would be choosable the same way Savants are)
    Last edited by Failedlegend; 05-02-2012 at 06:12 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  2. #382
    Community Member Jay203's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post
    Actually that would make for 5 PrEs because are also gettin AotS, but that you don't have to worry about because its already been stated that Savant will be a single PrE you would just choose the element and the enhancements would adjust accordingly. That begs the question of what the 3rd PrE is going to be (Since its X Savant & AotS right now) I'm hoping for "X" Dragon Disciple (Color ie. Red would be choosable the same way Savants are)
    red dragon disciple would be nice
    PS: Greensteel RUINED the game! and you all know it!
    less buffing, more nerfing!!!
    to make it easier for those of you that wants to avoid me in game, all my characters are in "Bladesworn Mercenaries"

  3. #383
    Community Member Aelonwy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay203 View Post
    red dragon disciple would be nice
    Dragon Disciple would be nice but I maintain that Dragon Disciple is a prestige class that both sorcerers and bards qualify for and therefor it wouldn't be fair for only sorcerers to get access. Of course I also feel that Arcane Archer doesn't make much sense as a ranger prestige (when rangers are NOT arcane casters) but I guess I'm just a stickler for details.
    "Its not D&D anymore, more D$D." -- Brannigan
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  4. #384

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aelonwy View Post
    Dragon Disciple would be nice but I maintain that Dragon Disciple is a prestige class that both sorcerers and bards qualify for and therefor it wouldn't be fair for only sorcerers to get access. Of course I also feel that Arcane Archer doesn't make much sense as a ranger prestige (when rangers are NOT arcane casters) but I guess I'm just a stickler for details.
    I could live with dragon disciple for sorcs only. Bards do have 3 PrE's. I know PnP allows PrC qualifications but DDO has always been much more limiting that way.

    Beside, bards get their magic from the music of creation, not necessarily dragon blood lineage. If sorcs were to get dragon disciple as the 3rd PrE (my preference is yes) then bards do not need it just because sorcs get it, and that is coming from someone who is constantly promoting adding bard benefits.

  5. #385
    Community Member Aelonwy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aashrym View Post
    I could live with dragon disciple for sorcs only. Bards do have 3 PrE's. I know PnP allows PrC qualifications but DDO has always been much more limiting that way.

    Beside, bards get their magic from the music of creation, not necessarily dragon blood lineage. If sorcs were to get dragon disciple as the 3rd PrE (my preference is yes) then bards do not need it just because sorcs get it, and that is coming from someone who is constantly promoting adding bard benefits.
    Well if you've been following the Epic Destinies thread it looks like we'll both be somewhat satisfied. One of the Arcane Epic Destinies, namely Draconic Incarnation, may be the closest facsimile to Dragon Disciple that we will get and it should be available to both bards and sorcs.
    "Its not D&D anymore, more D$D." -- Brannigan
    Blood Scented Axe Body Spray (Thelanis)
    Aelonwy - Wydavir - Metaluscious - Aertimys - Aelyrra - Kaelaria - Lunaura - Aelurawynn - Saurscha - Crystalorn - Aurvaeyn - Vaelyns - Wyllowynd

  6. #386

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aelonwy View Post
    Well if you've been following the Epic Destinies thread it looks like we'll both be somewhat satisfied. One of the Arcane Epic Destinies, namely Draconic Incarnation, may be the closest facsimile to Dragon Disciple that we will get and it should be available to both bards and sorcs.
    I have been and noticed. I was thinking with draconic incarnation there could be stat bonuses that suit bards. It just takes 20 levels to get started.

  7. #387
    The Hatchery SisAmethyst's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyvn View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Scraap View Post
    See, That's what I'd thought as well, but I couldn't for the life of me dig out an explicit link... Begs the question:

    That seems to be Racial PRE bonuses for spending points in the racial tree. Especially with Vargouille's quote. Maybe on Monday they'll take pity on us and let us know exactly how they're planning on it to work?
    Like you have this in other games too. Spend points on the Y axis and unlock with them elements on the X axis. So in other words if you spend 5 points you will get the racial tier I granted, with 10 points freely spend, you automatically unlock tier II (10) at the bottom.

    I wouldn't however expect anything soon as they still have a lot to do with the xPack. Good thing will take its time and we waited so long for it, it doesn't matter to me if we have to wait some other months to advance on that topic. What doesn't mean I would be pleased to get more cookies
    * We have collectable bags, hell even hireling folders, but can I have that 6-pack for my potions please?
    * Having already a past life on the dieng EU servers, I rerolled here and started from scratch as I like the game and the community, so lets see what awaits me here

  8. #388
    2015 DDO Players Council Artagon's Avatar
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    The points about sorcerer PrEs are pretty interesting, in that the trees do seem to be similar in function to another game, Rift, in which you get root abilities based upon how much you invest in the tree. That being said, I'm not sure what we know of as PrEs will continue to exist in the sense of them being PrEs, but rather just add-on abilities by spending in their trees. Does this mean Sorcs will only have the elemental savant type abilities? It does seem a good possibility, which does make me a little interested in their potential.. but perhaps the base elemental lines will be in one tree, in which having points in the various elements unlock the potential for other trees?

    Regardless, I for one would not mind some new information on the system. I would love to see an enhancement line for an eldritch knight type character where some of the root abilities could make your intelligence substitute in for strength on melee attacks/dmg. Unfortunately, they already have gear in game for wild mage, so we know that it will be one of the enhancement lines.. but perhaps they could have more than 3, or they could have multiclass specific enhancement lines. Another option for that intelligence for melee ability might be one of the epic destinies, though I'm not sure which would make sense, unless it was restricted to wizard type weapons, like quarterstaves.

    I know you devs are busy with the new mod, and have probably put this on the back burner, but can we have any more tidbits please?

  9. #389
    Community Member Aerendil's Avatar
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    First off, props to all devs involved in this upcoming change. It looks very well organized, and is a welcome update to the enhancements. Being able to choose your path more clearly, and allot points in a more methodical way has worked very well in other games (EQ2, SWTOR, etc.), so I'm sure it'll be a huge improvement here as well. It's also a nice boost that we can have multiple PREs in each class now - very nice. Some interesting possibilities now!

    That said, I have a few questions/concerns about the following:
    1) Drow racial PrE changed to Tempest. As others have mentioned, this screams of cheesy Drizzt love. As the main world of this MMO is Eberron, Scorpion Wraith would be a MUCH better fit thematically. Any chance to alter this?

    2) speaking of Drow, and perhaps on an unrelated note to this thread, but any chance we can make adjustments to character appearance and have Drow have the option of white tattoos/scars? This is in line with the tribal nature of Drow in Xen'drik and how they scar themselves with scorpion venom (Vulkoor worship).

    3) Devs - how far into each "tab" will we be able to go before we are limited by levels?
    For instance, on an 18/1/1 split, will we be able to get a number of bottom-row abilities from those /1 classes? or no?
    Depending on how limiting the level requirements will be for these AP purchases, this could either promote multiclassing, or kill it altogether.

    4) since there is a "race" tab, will the racial enhancements be overhauled as well? If so, any hints / previews on some of those changes?

  10. #390
    Community Member sephiroth1084's Avatar
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    Would love some more info here in order to get a fuller picture of what the game will look like along with the Beta changes.
    Useful links: A Guide to Using a Gamepad w/ DDO / All Caster Shroud, Hard Shroud, VoD, ToD Einhander, Elochka, Ferrumrym, Ferrumdermis, Ferrumshot, Ferrumblood, Ferrumender, Ferrumshadow, Ferrumschtik All proud officers of The Loreseekers. Except Bruucelee, he's a Sentinel!

  11. #391
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    Giving elves arcane archer as the only racial prc feels like pigeonholing. I hope you can find a way to make elves more appealing for builds that dont pewpew. How about adding another racial option like bladedancer or something along those lines.

    I am hoping we will get more info on the matter after xpack. I like the new system but not knowing any specifics makes building new toons rather pointless as they could be severely gimped after enhancement pass.

  12. #392
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valakai View Post
    Giving elves arcane archer as the only racial prc feels like pigeonholing. I hope you can find a way to make elves more appealing for builds that dont pewpew. How about adding another racial option like bladedancer or something along those lines.

    I am hoping we will get more info on the matter after xpack. I like the new system but not knowing any specifics makes building new toons rather pointless as they could be severely gimped after enhancement pass.
    Actually giving ANY race a carbon copy of class PrEs will pigeon hole them...I REALLY don't see why were not giving them actual RACIAL PrEs like originally planned...something like this:

    Warforged: Reforged and Juggernaut (Let the player choose to embrace or shed their construct nature...oh and give Juggernaut an overhaul)
    Elf: AA and Bladesinger
    Dwarf: Dwarven Defender (Make it different than DoS & SD)
    Halfing: Talenta Outrider (Dunno if a mount is possible...so just make it a companion)
    Human: Steelsky Liberator (Good at fighting Larger Enemies with a focus on Dragons)
    Drow: Scorpion Wraith
    Half-Orc: Kal'thaan Marcher (This is probably spelled incorrectly)
    Half-Elf: Soulbow? and Any Class PrE based on Dilly (Yeah I know this sort of breaks my no Carbon Copy rule but it fits)
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  13. #393
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post
    Actually giving ANY race a carbon copy of class PrEs will pigeon hole them...I REALLY don't see why were not giving them actual RACIAL PrEs like originally planned...something like this:

    Warforged: Reforged and Juggernaut (Let the player choose to embrace or shed their construct nature...oh and give Juggernaut an overhaul)
    Elf: AA and Bladesinger
    Dwarf: Dwarven Defender (Make it different than DoS & SD)
    Halfing: Talenta Outrider (Dunno if a mount is possible...so just make it a companion)
    Human: Steelsky Liberator (Good at fighting Larger Enemies with a focus on Dragons)
    Drow: Scorpion Wraith
    Half-Orc: Kal'thaan Marcher (This is probably spelled incorrectly)
    Half-Elf: Soulbow? and Any Class PrE based on Dilly (Yeah I know this sort of breaks my no Carbon Copy rule but it fits)
    Those are a lot of really bad suggestions for racial PeEs.
    Suggestions like those are probably why they gave up the idea and decided to go ticky tack with class PrEs.
    Wherever you went - here you are.

  14. #394
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dartwick View Post
    Those are a lot of really bad suggestions for racial PeEs.
    Suggestions like those are probably why they gave up the idea and decided to go ticky tack with class PrEs.
    ummmm...they were just examples....and WHY are they bad? What would YOU suggest.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  15. #395
    Community Member VorpalLaugh's Avatar
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    An idea I have for racial PrCs is that instead of a separate tree for things like Scorpion Wrath there
    a line of enchantments in the Race tree. This will be in addition to carbon copy class based prestige tree.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kadriel View Post
    Also, it is a game. If you are having fun you are winning the game. If not, you are doing it wrong.

  16. #396
    Community Member Jay203's Avatar
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    one thing i'd like to add since i just remembered it (>_>) is that please make the ap spent requirement for unlocking higher tiers be total AP spent rather than amount spent into that specific tree
    i'm not talking about the auto-grants for each tree, but the ones you can invest points into
    this way we can still have versatility in customizing while still have control by making a player invest more into the tree if they want the higher tier auto-grants in that tree
    PS: Greensteel RUINED the game! and you all know it!
    less buffing, more nerfing!!!
    to make it easier for those of you that wants to avoid me in game, all my characters are in "Bladesworn Mercenaries"

  17. #397
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    As far as racial prestige enhancements go I was a bit dissappointed that elves only get arcane archer...which they already have. Kind of seems like one of the weakest racial choices got the shaft...again.

    If I understood correctly half elves get to choose freely between elven and human enhancement and also pick from all racial PrCs.

    Would be nice if you could give more choise like tempest and arcane archer to elves for instance...

    Atm elves are only decent for pew pew or wizards. I'm kind of hoping they would be buffed since I enjoy playing them but always when I'm messing with character generator it feels like human and half elf are always miles ahead statwise.

  18. #398
    Community Member Truga's Avatar
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    AA is the best PrE, you quit your hating now!

    http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=375022

  19. #399
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aelonwy View Post
    Dragon Disciple would be nice but I maintain that Dragon Disciple is a prestige class that both sorcerers and bards qualify for and therefor it wouldn't be fair for only sorcerers to get access. Of course I also feel that Arcane Archer doesn't make much sense as a ranger prestige (when rangers are NOT arcane casters) but I guess I'm just a stickler for details.
    Well yes, but at least AA is available to multiple classes through the elf/helf enhancements. Realistically, Prestige Enhancements give base classes access to Prestige class abilities without having to multiclass to obtain them (An arcane archer might be a ranger with several arcane caster levels normally. It actually works out reasonably welll. Sure it doesn't necesarily "make sense" but I forgive the game this much as it gives more flexibility to getting prestige classes than multiclassing does.

    edit: as for the enhancement change:

    Excitement level tentative, I worry a bit that this will homogenise builds somewhat.

    I'm hoping there is some cross pollenation between PrE trees in a class to avoid having to miss out on abilities you can have now that are good and fun, just so you can take your PrE...

    The alternative I suppose is having a PrE tree (specifically for PrE related abilities in it such as prerequisites for assassin and assassin itself), a class base tree (with some basic abilities in it such as Rogue Dexterity), a race tree (with thigns like racial toughness).
    Last edited by Maxson; 06-27-2012 at 09:57 AM.

  20. #400
    Community Member Blayster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxson View Post
    The alternative I suppose is having a PrE tree (specifically for PrE related abilities in it such as prerequisites for assassin and assassin itself), a class base tree (with some basic abilities in it such as Rogue Dexterity), a race tree (with thigns like racial toughness).
    I have missed 99% of this thread, but if the information in ddowiki is still valid, I have to agree with this post. Having 3 different PrE sounds a bit too much, no? I like the Race+Class+one-PrE idea better...

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