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  1. #221
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scraap View Post
    I usually use the analogy of Chess vs Checkers. Some folks prefer the former, some the latter. Doesn't diminish either game, but trying to turn one into the other would likely make the players quite irate. DDO still seems to be trying to figure out which it wants to be at times. Of course, the last time I got a wild hair to code up a chess game, I added pieces, so I'd have to admit, I'm rather biased :P

    Leonard: Beekeeper to King 12. I capture your pope and release the swarm. Checkmate on Sheldon.
    Sheldon: I knew I should've given my pope the jet pack.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gary_Gygax
    No single character has all the skills and resources needed to guarantee success in all endeavors; favorable results can usually only be achieved through group effort. No single player character wins, in the sense that he or she defeats all other player characters; the goal of the forces of good can only be attained through cooperation, so that victory is a group achievement rather than an individual one.

  2. #222
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GermanicusMaximus View Post
    At one point, I gave technical direction to over 300 software engineers.
    Ah, you were just a pointy-haired boss. Got it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gary_Gygax
    No single character has all the skills and resources needed to guarantee success in all endeavors; favorable results can usually only be achieved through group effort. No single player character wins, in the sense that he or she defeats all other player characters; the goal of the forces of good can only be attained through cooperation, so that victory is a group achievement rather than an individual one.

  3. #223
    Community Member Havok.cry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    The current enhancement system isn't too bad, in my mind, but the UI could really use some work.
    This.

    Its not the UI change I have issues with at all, personally, making them easier to search through via the tree system is a good thing IMHO. My problem lies in the limitations they put on their initial design, and won't talk about with us.
    Matt Walsh:
    But Truth is eternal, so it can never be old or new. It never ‘was’ or ‘will be.’ It just ‘is.’ It always ‘is.’

  4. #224
    Community Member orakio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok.cry View Post
    This.

    Its not the UI change I have issues with at all, personally, making them easier to search through via the tree system is a good thing IMHO. My problem lies in the limitations they put on their initial design, and won't talk about with us.
    Just going to take a bit of patience, dev's are still working and MadFloyd stated multiple times that they are committed to multiclasses still being a major part of ddo. If Mournlands testers don't catch it they still indicated they will have it up on Lamania in time for plenty of feedback and review before final release.

  5. #225
    Community Member Cauthey's Avatar
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    After listening to the DDOCast episode 252 and Sig's Enhancements talk with Deadnettle, I feel I must come to this thread and weigh in on a couple of items:

    1) Please do not remove Toughness, at least not globally and totally, as a pre-req for Toughness-related Enhancements. While I don't think I could ever build a character without the Toughness feat, I feel that giving up this feat for another is a sacrifice and a choice that players must make when building out their characters.

    Just because something sees almost ubiquitous use does not mean it's "okay" to just completely neuter it, ignore it, or just roll it in for free. It's a choice, just like it's a choice for an arcane to NOT take Spell Focus: Enchantment and Greater Spell Focus: Enchantment. We might all think it's a little silly, or even go so far as to shout "you're a GIMP" for forsaking these end-game-critical feat selections. Still, that doesn't make it okay to just gloss over it and leave the Toughness feat behind because the new Toughness Enhancement Lines without the Toughness feat is where it's at.

    At a minimum, IF YOU MUST: perhaps make the racial toughness line available without the Toughness feat. That way everyone can have access to ONE Toughness enhancement line for free. If a player REALLY wants to bulk up their character's hit points, require them to take the Toughness feat to unlock access to all other class-related Toughness enhancement lines.

    2) Please do not remove enhancement options that relate to reducing arcane spell failure such as Elven Arcane Fluidity and Warforged Inscribed Armor. Having these enhancement options available to reduce arcane spell failure GREATLY increase the ability to customize our characters. Yes, I am aware that I can don Twilight armor or install a Arcane Sigil docent to help minimize spell failure. But, sometimes that isn't enough. Or, perhaps a particular gearset doesn't allow that as an option.

    Options are GOOD!! Please do not reduce our options for mitigating arcane spell failure!


    That's all. Thanks for your consideration! And thank you to Sig, Anne, and Deadnettle for the extremely informative segment about upcoming Enhancement changes!
    PLEASE FIX LAG. PLEASE FIX BUGS.

  6. #226
    Community Member Jay203's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    Just pray you don't have a fighter level, and have to scroll through 61 different Fighter: Weapon Specialization enhancements.

    The current enhancement system isn't too bad, in my mind, but the UI could really use some work.
    hehe, yah, that's what i'm saying
    the mechanic is not too bad, the UI on the other hand...
    PS: Greensteel RUINED the game! and you all know it!
    less buffing, more nerfing!!!
    to make it easier for those of you that wants to avoid me in game, all my characters are in "Bladesworn Mercenaries"

  7. #227
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post
    FYI spell point is actually official 3.5 ruleset the venetian magic system is just more popular.
    Ack, I think you mean vancian (as in Jack Vance)


    Quote Originally Posted by MajMalphunktion View Post
    *Handwraps. Yes we know. Here is my known issue for handwraps. Hand wraps in assorted flavors are borked.

  8. #228
    Community Member AylinIsAwesome's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cauthey View Post
    After listening to the DDOCast episode 252 and Sig's Enhancements talk with Deadnettle, I feel I must come to this thread and weigh in on a couple of items:

    1) Please do not remove Toughness, at least not globally and totally, as a pre-req for Toughness-related Enhancements. While I don't think I could ever build a character without the Toughness feat, I feel that giving up this feat for another is a sacrifice and a choice that players must make when building out their characters.

    Just because something sees almost ubiquitous use does not mean it's "okay" to just completely neuter it, ignore it, or just roll it in for free. It's a choice, just like it's a choice for an arcane to NOT take Spell Focus: Enchantment and Greater Spell Focus: Enchantment. We might all think it's a little silly, or even go so far as to shout "you're a GIMP" for forsaking these end-game-critical feat selections. Still, that doesn't make it okay to just gloss over it and leave the Toughness feat behind because the new Toughness Enhancement Lines without the Toughness feat is where it's at.

    At a minimum, IF YOU MUST: perhaps make the racial toughness line available without the Toughness feat. That way everyone can have access to ONE Toughness enhancement line for free. If a player REALLY wants to bulk up their character's hit points, require them to take the Toughness feat to unlock access to all other class-related Toughness enhancement lines.
    From what I understand, the PrEs will no longer require feats to get their bonuses (the example they used was that Frenzied Berserker would no longer need Cleave to take it, but that Supreme Cleave would be an enhancement in the tree that still requires the feat Cleave in order to qualify for it).

    So I don't think that they will remove the Toughness feat in order to qualify for Toughness enhancements.

  9. #229
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post
    FYI spell point is actually official 3.5 ruleset the venetian magic system is just more popular.
    You can find the write up here in the SRD

    http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/spellPoints.htm

    By reading through this passage you can see the devs stayed pretty true to it.

    Namely these two lines.

    One balancing factor is the cost for casters to increase the damage dealt by their spells. This cost helps to maintain balance between spells of different level.

    Metamagics do this namely empower,maximize & heighten

    If you use this variant, consider adding other game elements that influence (or are influenced by) spell points. These might include magic items that grant (or cost) spell points, feats that grant bonus spell points (or make certain spells cost fewer spell points to cast), special abilities that drain spell points from casters, and so forth.

    All of these have been added

    There's also a Vitalizing variant which reminds me of Raistlin Majere...A second optional variant would allow a spellcaster to exceed his normal pool of spell points, but at great personal risk. Doing so successfully requires a Concentration check (DC 20 + spell level). Each time a character casts a spell for which he does not have sufficient spell points and subsequently fails the Concentration check, he takes both lethal and nonlethal damage equal to the level of the spell cast. A desperate (or unwary) spellcaster can literally cast himself into unconsciousness in this manner.
    They are just using the term "spell points" to describe "spells per day by level" which has been the system since the first AD&D. They are then converting it to a total numeric value. This is not related to the blue mana bar and the value being referred to as "spell points" in an MMO. The use of blue bars made MMO wizards more like P&P sorcs where they can decide to meta on the spot rather than having to program the spell in advance as meta'd.

    d20 also =/= original 3.5e d20 might as well be its own game with how many changes they made.
    Last edited by Chai; 04-18-2012 at 02:17 PM.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  10. #230
    Hero nibel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cauthey View Post
    After listening to the DDOCast episode 252 and Sig's Enhancements talk with Deadnettle, I feel I must come to this thread and weigh in on a couple of items:

    1) Please do not remove Toughness, at least not globally and totally, as a pre-req for Toughness-related Enhancements. While I don't think I could ever build a character without the Toughness feat, I feel that giving up this feat for another is a sacrifice and a choice that players must make when building out their characters.

    Just because something sees almost ubiquitous use does not mean it's "okay" to just completely neuter it, ignore it, or just roll it in for free. It's a choice, just like it's a choice for an arcane to NOT take Spell Focus: Enchantment and Greater Spell Focus: Enchantment.
    No, Toughness, today, is not a choice. Just like anyone wanting to TWF don't have a choice on three feats (THF, on the other hand, have a choice of going 0, 1, 2, or 3 feats on that line). Since the game assumes you have some baseline HP, and the class and basic gear (+6 con, GFL) alone can't cover this number on most characters, the 42~102 HP from toughness is a must have in some builds.

    When you meet a wizard with a 42 DC on his hold instead of 43, you don't whine as much as you do if you find a capped rogue with 270 HP (120 base +20 heroic +30 GFL +100 con 20).

    Getting enhancement lines to put the HP in the baseline required for endgame is a good thing. Just like the defensive prestiges giving +4~10 AC free for wearing heavy armor was a good thing for tank builds in the last months.
    Main: Amossa d'Cannith, Sarlona, casually trying Completionist [<o>]

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    I want DDO to be a better game. Those are my personal suggestions on: Ammunition, Archmage, Combat Stances, Deities, Dispel Magic, Epic Destiny Map, Fast Healing, Favor, Favored Enemy, Half-elf Enhancements, Monk Stances, Past Life, Potency, Potions, Ranger Spells, Summons, Tiered Loot.

  11. #231
    Community Member Delssar's Avatar
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    Im concerned that with the enhancement tree's we'll loose the major ability to customize alot of our toons, being forced into tree's and all.

  12. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post
    Oh definitely I would LOVE if melees/ranged had more stuff...I mean Trip and sunder are nice but they could use more. Especially ranged users he seem to have been shafted on alot of abilities that for absolutely no reason dont work with ranged.
    I'm not going to talk about Ranged combat (since my experience with it is minimal) although I know it doesn't receive alot of perks from melee abilities. Instead, I'm going to focus on the Melee part of combat that I think needs to be improved. I see there's alot of talk about "no skill to play melees vs alot of skill to play casters" starting to pop up in this thread. Well, I suggested a few months before that boosting melee Tactical feats would help alot.

    Tactical feats suffer from several things and that's why they are't often used, especially by new players.
    * First, a practical Tactical enhancement line for melees would help all melees hit the DCs needed, especially in Epics. The Dev information about the future Dwarven Tactical line seems to show that the Devs are starting somewhat down this road.
    * Second, the biggest obstacle is the Cooldown for the feats are too long. Stunning Blow has a 15 second cooldown but only lasts 6 seconds. A caster can pop off two Fingers of Death in the time that Stunning Blow is on timer (not to mention the caster can cycle through a few other instant kill spells). Trip and Improved Trip have similar cooldowns, but the effect can last 30 to 60 seconds. The Cooldowns should either be shortened and/or the effect should last longer.
    * Third, most of the Tactical feats don't work on Red and Purple names. Since these usually cost a feat spot, there should be some secondary effect that can affect Purple and Red names. This was done with Sunder and Improved Sunder. I'm not suggesting that Stunning Blow should knock-out Red and Purple names, but maybe cause a Shattermantle effect or prevent Purple and Red names from casting spells for 2 seconds. The argument I've seen against this is that "casters also have spells that don't affect Red and Purple names". Although this is true, they don't cost a Feat. "But the spells cost a spell slot." True, but casters should have mutiple spells to choose from, whereas melees just have Improved Sunder or Hamstring (both costing a feat) or it's just the "no skill" melee action of holding a button down that these same people complain about.

  13. #233
    Community Member Cauthey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nibel View Post
    No, Toughness, today, is not a choice. Just like anyone wanting to TWF don't have a choice on three feats (THF, on the other hand, have a choice of going 0, 1, 2, or 3 feats on that line). Since the game assumes you have some baseline HP, and the class and basic gear (+6 con, GFL) alone can't cover this number on most characters, the 42~102 HP from toughness is a must have in some builds.

    When you meet a wizard with a 42 DC on his hold instead of 43, you don't whine as much as you do if you find a capped rogue with 270 HP (120 base +20 heroic +30 GFL +100 con 20).

    Getting enhancement lines to put the HP in the baseline required for endgame is a good thing. Just like the defensive prestiges giving +4~10 AC free for wearing heavy armor was a good thing for tank builds in the last months.
    Sorry, I wholeheartedly disagree. There are others that play DDO besides hardcore gamers, and end-game content gamers. There are plenty of DDO players that enjoy the game plenty that have not min-maxed every last HP within their reach. Granted, you might not be willing to allow them into your raid. But, they're there.

    I ALMOST liken the "lets just remove Toughness" argument to saying "lets just give all DDO characters an additional +22 hit points for free," which has it's own problems. Here's why:

    You say Toughness is not a choice. You and/or perhaps others might argue that it stinks because Toughness is a pointless feat sink. From what I've heard, it sounded as though there is already speculation/discussion about removing Toughness as an enhancement-line pre-req. So begins the downfall of yet another feat, and perhaps also some more power creep.

    To continue to make concessions along these lines will ultimately end up in the granting of +22 extra HPs (at level 20) for all characters without needing to take Toughness. Yay, HPs! Where's the bad in that, you ask?

    But then... you could take Toughness since you already have the +22 extra HP for AN ADDITIONAL +22 HPs! Once again, this selection would again become a "non-choice" for end game builds, and the begging for the relinquishing of the Toughness feat will happen again. Ever wonder where the +20 Heroic HPs at 1st level come from?

    If the answer is to give everyone +22 additional HPs and access to Toughness-based enhancement lines, why stop there? Why not make it an additional +44 HPs? Or +66? In fact, you could just keep throwing HPs at people until DDO HP levels reach WOW proportions. Hurray! They're over 9000!



    YES, there are plenty of builds that are terribly feat starved. But, that's part of the game - making choices about the feats that your character will get the most benefit from. There are also plenty of builds where Toughness is taken 2 or 3 times (read: Krimsonrayne). People do sacrifice options to create monster HP builds, and they manage to make it work.

    All that said - to circumvent Toughness as a pre-req in my humble opinion would be a grave mistake.
    PLEASE FIX LAG. PLEASE FIX BUGS.

  14. #234
    Developer MadFloyd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyr View Post
    If Mad would just post the details as they have them of the epic enhancments and the enhancement pass people would not have to guess and try to read the tea leaves of every developer comment about the issue.

    As apparently the developers are yet again going to push out a major system on us without enough time to change it in major ways including kill it if it is a horribly ill thought out abomination like lightsaber wielding melee toons would be us being paranoid is the only way to weigh in on these nightmare scenarios before it is too late.
    So I started this thread to let everyone know that there wasn't enough time to get this feature out in time for XPack and you jump to the conclusion that we are going to push it out regardless of whether it's ready and ignore player feedback? Really? Are you serious or trying to push someone's buttons here?

    Either way this is not the way to entice devs to share information - especially when it's a work-in-progress. If you're serious (and not just looking to increase your sig tally) then this just goes to show how hard it is to share *ANY* info without it being taken out of context or misconstrued in some DOOM like fashion.
    The kobold cannot be marked as junk because it cannot be sold. You can destroy it by dragging and dropping it outside your inventory.

  15. #235
    Community Member dopey69's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadFloyd View Post
    So I started this thread to let everyone know that there wasn't enough time to get this feature out in time for XPack and you jump to the conclusion that we are going to push it out regardless of whether it's ready and ignore player feedback? Really? Are you serious or trying to push someone's buttons here?

    Either way this is not the way to entice devs to share information - especially when it's a work-in-progress. If you're serious (and not just looking to increase your sig tally) then this just goes to show how hard it is to share *ANY* info without it being taken out of context or misconstrued in some DOOM like fashion.
    don't **** us canadians off!

    or we will.......ok we wouldnt do that but we might....hmmmm not that either

    well ok we won't do anything but you will not be getting a christmas card this year !

  16. #236
    Community Member TempestAlphaOmega's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadFloyd View Post
    So I started this thread to let everyone know that there wasn't enough time to get this feature out in time for XPack
    Thank you, this information helped me decide on the path a few toons will be taking for the short term.

    Quote Originally Posted by MadFloyd View Post
    and you jump to the conclusion that we are going to push it out regardless of whether it's ready and ignore player feedback? Really? Are you serious or trying to push someone's buttons here?

    Either way this is not the way to entice devs to share information - especially when it's a work-in-progress. If you're serious (and not just looking to increase your sig tally) then this just goes to show how hard it is to share *ANY* info without it being taken out of context or misconstrued in some DOOM like fashion.
    Many people cannot live without their daily dose of Doooooommmmmm. Some also require larger doses more than once a day and will take drastic messures to ensure the supply isnt interupted, even if it means sacrificing a DEV or two.

    Go grab a Dirty Kobold (the drink not anyone from QA after they have been umm elbows deep in prerelease code) and have a nice meal.

    I will now hit submit without asking if you have anything to release about the new enhancment system because.....well...ok.....maybe you found something to release within the last two minutes that you forgot you had to release, yeah thats it.
    Shapshap, League of Extraordinary Ham, Sarlona and a bunch of alts that all have names begining with Sha or Sho. Of course Shapshap could be the alt and one of the others the main, it just depends on what day it is.

  17. #237
    Community Member Khurse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadFloyd View Post
    So I started this thread to let everyone know that there wasn't enough time to get this feature out in time for XPack and you jump to the conclusion that we are going to push it out regardless of whether it's ready and ignore player feedback? Really? Are you serious or trying to push someone's buttons here?

    Either way this is not the way to entice devs to share information - especially when it's a work-in-progress. If you're serious (and not just looking to increase your sig tally) then this just goes to show how hard it is to share *ANY* info without it being taken out of context or misconstrued in some DOOM like fashion.
    While I agree it's got to suck being a dev trying to share info (I personally maintain you guys were crazy to open up the enhancements thread), and I don't agree with the people saying you're trying to cut players out of the loop and just do whatever you want (like it's your game or something)
    The other point of view is that..

    Well we've heard it before.3+ years ago we had nice little posts about the new and upcoming PRES that were being rolled out over the "next few modules" and well, we still don't have more than a handful of them completed.

    "Look at the shiny!" they told us, (and we did) "See what plans we have for you guys!"
    And everyone oohed and ahhed over what Ravager would bring, What would Purple Dragon Knights do?
    It was cool, it was exciting, it was a frickin long time ago. ANd honestly, it doesn't even have the same excuse as Druids, as it doesn't (seem) to require much new tech to make it happen.

    You seem passionate about getting this done, I take that as a good sign, however what you see as "we need to delay so we can get it right" others can see as "Yeah still no new PRE's...but we're working on them this time ...Honest!! "

  18. #238

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    Quote Originally Posted by MadFloyd View Post
    So I started this thread to let everyone know that there wasn't enough time to get this feature out in time for XPack and you jump to the conclusion that we are going to push it out regardless of whether it's ready and ignore player feedback? Really? Are you serious or trying to push someone's buttons here?

    Either way this is not the way to entice devs to share information - especially when it's a work-in-progress. If you're serious (and not just looking to increase your sig tally) then this just goes to show how hard it is to share *ANY* info without it being taken out of context or misconstrued in some DOOM like fashion.
    MadFloyd,

    Don't let the trolls get the best of you. My wife is relatively new to reading the forum and she'll start talking about how could someone say such and such (usually about ranged combat) and she'll start getting riled up. I have to remind her, some people are looking to get a rise out of other people. It is the internet, being anonymous does strange things to people. As a dev, you take crazy amounts of flak just for existing as people get very passionate about their hobbies. I feel that most of us appreciate the information you dole out and take it with a grain of salt, especially when it is stated that it is still in flux.

    Since we all now know the enhancement pass is pushed back, I would respectfully request a little more information about the epic levels/destinies that are coming with the expansion. Teasing people about the cool stuff you have planned builds hype for the expansion! I have read info saying how we will be getting both epic levels and epic destinies and I had originally thought that the epic "stuff" in the expansion was basically just a separate enhancement system for level 20+ instead of actually adding levels 21-25. Can you answer the question:
    Will we be getting both epic levels 21-25 (meaning I can be a Level 25 FvS or a 23/2 split) and epic destinies (where we get some sort of epic AP system) or are we still capped at 20 class levels with just more epic goodies to tack onto our character?

    If not that, at least maybe a teaser on the content for the video that is supposed to come out Friday talking about MotU?
    Quote Originally Posted by Eladrin
    I've never seen someone at a tabletop game say "I jump up on the wall until I get stuck in a spot where I can hit the giant but he can't hit me back for no apparent reason."

  19. #239
    The Hatchery sirgog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BananaHat View Post
    MadFloyd,

    Don't let the trolls get the best of you. My wife is relatively new to reading the forum and she'll start talking about how could someone say such and such (usually about ranged combat) and she'll start getting riled up. I have to remind her, some people are looking to get a rise out of other people. It is the internet, being anonymous does strange things to people. As a dev, you take crazy amounts of flak just for existing as people get very passionate about their hobbies. I feel that most of us appreciate the information you dole out and take it with a grain of salt, especially when it is stated that it is still in flux.

    Since we all now know the enhancement pass is pushed back, I would respectfully request a little more information about the epic levels/destinies that are coming with the expansion. Teasing people about the cool stuff you have planned builds hype for the expansion! I have read info saying how we will be getting both epic levels and epic destinies and I had originally thought that the epic "stuff" in the expansion was basically just a separate enhancement system for level 20+ instead of actually adding levels 21-25. Can you answer the question:
    Will we be getting both epic levels 21-25 (meaning I can be a Level 25 FvS or a 23/2 split) and epic destinies (where we get some sort of epic AP system) or are we still capped at 20 class levels with just more epic goodies to tack onto our character?

    If not that, at least maybe a teaser on the content for the video that is supposed to come out Friday talking about MotU?
    Some of this info is known.

    Your FvS18/Mnk2 will advance to basically some sort of FvS18/Mnk2/Epic5. We don't know all that much more but they won't be FvS23/Mnk2.

    What we get from the epic levels is not known. I'm guessing something like +10% hp, +10% sp, +2 to-hit, +2 AC, +1 to all saves and -5% to spellcasting cooldowns per epic level, but that's just a wild guess.
    I don't have a zerging problem.

    I'm zerging. That's YOUR problem.

  20. #240
    Community Member Entelech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Durnak View Post
    So, you would prefer a build that people have created at some point in their gaming experience to survive for the rest of the time the game exists?

    Why are people whining about losing the builds they have/currently are creating? The POINT of advancing our characters and revamping their enhancements is to create new, fresh, and more modernized characters.

    What is the point of having the game grow and expand our options in order to accelerate our characters if people are so resistant to changes as fundamental as this enhancement revamp? Maybe playing a game that says game over in the end is more to the liking of those individuals?

    The enjoyment in playing such a complicated game is to NOT be handed every fact and hand held through your choices. Complexity allows us to slowly figure stuff out, to learn through experimentation, and then analysis of our results. Then experiment and fine tune again.

    The new enhancement system opens a multitude of doors for character progression unlike anything we can do now. Instead, we are forced to spend 6 action points on a single stat, spend our hard earned feat slots on nonsense, and even take enhancement lines completely undesireable for the sake of our PrE's.

    The current system is NOT complex, the action point costs are absurdly unfair, and finding enhancements is tedious, because scrolling through the entire show unavailable list is plain stupid. And I argue that a much more complex system should be more desireable as long as it is organized and modifiable based on your preferences, and logically follows throughout your characters progression.

    The great new build will always be figured out, regardless of what the enhancement systems are. The point of the revamp is to allow several great builds, instead of just the 1 or 2 we've had all this time. Challenge our minds, and we'll keep coming back for more.
    Sigh. Nice try.

    I was responding to the post immediately before the one you quoted, asking why so much anxiety over proposed changes. Just because I understand people's emotional concerns does not mean that I share them or endorse them.

    Personally, I am looking forward (mostly) to the changes, since I love tinkering with weird builds. Because of this love of tinkering with unusual builds, I've had an opportunity to study the attitudes of the average PUG leader, as well as the opportunity to solo a lot of quests.

    The fact is, many of the powergamers who run the big raids are lazy. If they don't instantly recognize your build as a "Pure XXX" or a cut-and-paste named build off the forums, they decline you. Sometimes they let you in and then get angry when you grab aggro off Suulo and save the raid when the so-called "Pally Tank" dies for the fourth time in 20 seconds...then they wonder why you don't even need heals while you hold aggro.

    It's this laziness that's threatened. If *every* build from Rockan Robin to Tukaw goes obsolete simultaneously, the elitists will be forced to actually THINK, and this scares a LOT of people.

    If you do not believe that people find critical thinking to be a daunting prospect, you've obviously never had a manager.
    Give a man a fish, and he demands two more tomorrow.
    Teach a man to fish, and he'll leave to find somebody who'll just give him a fish.
    Beat him unconscious with the fish, and it's comedy.

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