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  1. #1
    Developer MadFloyd's Avatar
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    Default Let's Talk: Auto-grouping

    Since there is some concern over the recently announced 'auto-grouping' system, I thought I'd shed some light on it.

    Coming soon to an update near you:

    When entering an instance (dungeon or wilderness) you'll be able to choose whether you want to create a private instance (no change from how it works now) or a public one.

    If you opt for public, you'll have control over whether you start your own/new instance (useful for when you want to lead or already have a partial party) or join an existing one (assuming one exists - otherwise you'll start a new one).

    When a new public instance is created, a LFM entry will be posted in the Grouping panel (with an indication that this is a 'public' instance and the time elapsed). Other players can join by using the LFM or by walking up to and entering the instance (and choosing the 'join' option).

    When players choose to join a public instance via the LFM listing, no permission is required and, if they are already in a public area, they can teleport to the quest immediately.

    Players will also be able to search the LFM listings and invoke a search via the Adventure Compendium.

    Leaders of public parties can modify or delete the LFM at any time (e.g. it's decided that no other party members are required etc).

    There will also be an option to 'avoid leadership', so that players who start public instances but would prefer not to be the leader can have the game transfer leadership over to the next player (that doesn't have this option on).

    Why have we made these changes? Simply to provide more flexibility for players wishing to find groups. These changes should not take away any existing methods of forming groups (public LFM's can be hidden if you prefer) and you should be able to operate the way you always have.

    This is NOT a system that allows players to queue up for quests in advance or coaxes players to PUG. Also, this has no relation to Lotro's auto-grouping system.

    There will be some rudimentary matchmaking logic for when players manually enter an instance and choose the 'join public instance in progress' option (where there are multiple public instances in progress).
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  2. #2
    The Hatchery psteen1's Avatar
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    So will this create a whole bunch of "in progress" LFM's? Since the instance is started before people have joined the party?

  3. #3
    Community Member Monkey-Boy's Avatar
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    What "demand" is this "supply" feeding?

    Though as long as we're not forced to use this I don't see how this could be bad.

  4. #4
    Developer MadFloyd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by psteen1 View Post
    So will this create a whole bunch of "in progress" LFM's? Since the instance is started before people have joined the party?
    A party will always exist (even if it's just you alone in the dungeon).
    The kobold cannot be marked as junk because it cannot be sold. You can destroy it by dragging and dropping it outside your inventory.

  5. #5
    Founder Shadow_Flayer's Avatar
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    Will there be safeguards in place to make sure that players can not enter a public instance if they will cause any of the other players' XP to go to zero when they enter?

  6. #6
    Developer MadFloyd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow_Flayer View Post
    Will there be safeguards in place to make sure that players can not enter a public instance if they will cause any of the other players' XP to go to zero when they enter?
    Yes.
    The kobold cannot be marked as junk because it cannot be sold. You can destroy it by dragging and dropping it outside your inventory.

  7. #7
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadFloyd View Post
    When players choose to join a public instance via the LFM listing, no permission is required and, if they are already in a public area, they can teleport to the quest immediately.
    That's pretty cool for us vets who already know where everything is... Not so sure that's good for new players.

    Still, very interesting.
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  8. #8
    The Top Side GoldyGopher's Avatar
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    First I would like to thank you for taking the time to discuss this with us.

    One of the real challenges I have with this system is wrapping my head around what problem you are attempting to solve for players, I just don't see the "NEED" for the system.
    Maybe I don't see the need because my Guild has been around since closed Beta and I am too tied into that mindset.

    There are a number of practical problems I see with this option.

    To me the places this might work or be beneficial are Adventure Areas; however many/most that are currently in game are not large enough to truly support this option.

    How will Dungeon Scaling work with this option?

    How will XP work?

    What about respawns?
    Last edited by GoldyGopher; 04-10-2012 at 11:52 AM. Reason: typo

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  9. #9
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    i think this is a great idea that has been a long time coming, i like to open quests up to anyone who wants to join sometimes and the timer showing how long the quest has been active sounds like a much needed item, as well as the telly....

    one question though, there are people who i dont want to quest with for one reason or another, will there be some sort of reject feature, or kick feature? or will it not be possible to keep out unwanted players?

  10. #10
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    I PUG all the time, and always take the first 5 that want to come, so this option sounds very cool to me...
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gary_Gygax
    No single character has all the skills and resources needed to guarantee success in all endeavors; favorable results can usually only be achieved through group effort. No single player character wins, in the sense that he or she defeats all other player characters; the goal of the forces of good can only be attained through cooperation, so that victory is a group achievement rather than an individual one.

  11. #11
    Community Member Meat-Head's Avatar
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    Just want this clarified:

    If I create a "private instance", it will still show up on the grouping panel? So, I can decline applications of people/classes I don't want?

    I just want to make sure I can advertise an LFM AND pick who I want like I can now.
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  12. #12
    Community Member DemonMage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadFloyd View Post
    When entering an instance (dungeon or wilderness) you'll be able to choose whether you want to create a private instance (no change from how it works now) or a public one.
    Please have an option so that if you want to do Always Private or Always Public, you don't have to keep selecting a checkbox or clicking on a yes/no dialog every time you enter a quest. It'd also be nice if you could provide a similar option for dungeon difficulty (i.e. a setting for defaulting to elite rather than normal) for ease of use.

    Quote Originally Posted by Meat-Head View Post
    Just want this clarified:

    If I create a "private instance", it will still show up on the grouping panel? So, I can decline applications of people/classes I don't want?

    I just want to make sure I can advertise an LFM AND pick who I want.
    No, private instances don't function any differently than entering a quest now. You'll still be able to post a current-style LFM, but you won't show up in the new panel without explicitly stating you want to.
    Last edited by DemonMage; 04-10-2012 at 11:57 AM.
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  13. #13
    Community Member Avidus's Avatar
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    Will the quests be auto-shared as well? Or will people not be able to join the auto-made party if they don't have the quest? Or will it not matter at all and they will be allowed in for favor and xp but no end reward? What about quests that need flagging first?

    Will this work anywhere? For example I enter the chamber of rayium and choose public. Can people who have never been to the desert (but do have access to the pack) get teleported to me if they choose or will they get the same messege you get when using some of the airship navigators?

    Will people on my squelch list see my public instances and vice versa?

    Where will they be put once they teleport to the quest? I assume the entrance.

    Will there ever be an option to create a private instance in which new group members are teleported to the quest?
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  14. #14
    Community Member Cyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadFloyd View Post
    Yes.
    How about if it will break bravery bonus or just power level someone in the party?

    How would it work if guy jumps in then jumps out...then jumps in. Sounds like re-entry penalty to me.

    Of particular concern to me is the LFM spam that is likely to result form this sort of thing which will directly effect the usefullness of the current LFM panel. A simple checkbox to hide public instances would be a good idea to combat this.

    Another real issue I see is the old grouping with those who you really disllike...ie I see no filter there for squelched people. Didn't you guys have the same flaw originallly in LOTRO's auto-group system? By auto-teleporting people in you remove the one method there is to remove these people from groups before they cause any damage (booting them before they enter the quest when party member says hey that's the guy who did whatever).

    As to is this even a good idea...I don't think so honestly even if it stays exactly how you are stating it.

    Basically this is the new player with this tool. Neat I will set the quest as public and anyone can join. They go in and are doing fine on normal...heck they are doing good they think.

    Five more players step in as they are getting to the end fight. Dungeon scaling kicks in and they get destroyed.
    Last edited by Cyr; 04-10-2012 at 12:05 PM.
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  15. #15
    Hero AZgreentea's Avatar
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    This sounds like something I need to see in action to really understand.

    However, if there is still a way for a leader to control the party make up as they do currently before the LFM is made public, I dont see this as being a significant detour from a regular PUG group. It just makes them easier to form and join.
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  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyr View Post
    How about if it will break bravery bonus?

    How would it work if guy jumps in then jumps out...then jumps in. Sounds like re-entry penalty to me.

    Of particular concern to me is the LFM spam that is likely to result form this sort of thing which will directly effect the usefullness of the current LFM panel. A simple checkbox to hide public instances would be a good idea to combat this.

    Another real issue I see is the old grouping with those who you really disllike...ie I see no filter there for squelched people. Didn't you guys have the same flaw originallly in LOTRO's auto-group system?

    As to is this even a good idea...I don't think so honestly even if it stays exactly how you are stating it.

    Basically this is the new player with this tool. Neat I will set the quest as public and anyone can join. They go in and are doing fine on normal...heck they are doing good they think.

    Five more players step in as they are getting to the end fight. Dungeon scaling kicks in and they get destroyed.
    I agree dungeon scaling on this can be really bad. Someone may be doing something even fairly challenging for them and someone joins and teleports in directly and boom all of a sudden a challenging fight becomes a death as the person who joined is nowhere near to be able to help with the now harder fight.
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  17. #17
    Community Member Cyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeLoric View Post
    I agree dungeon scaling on this can be really bad. Someone may be doing something even fairly challenging for them and someone joins and teleports in directly and boom all of a sudden a challenging fight becomes a death as the person who joined is nowhere near to be able to help with the now harder fight.
    Yup and the potential for griefing is just blatently apparent too. Heck, you can use dungeon scaling and dungeon alert to grief someone with this by keeping the dungeon at red alert, costing re-entry penalty...
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  18. #18
    Hatchery Founder
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    Sounds okay. Need to see it in action. I'm curious about how difficulty is decided for quests.

    Looks like a system that lives or dies depending on how many people adopt it's use.
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  19. #19
    Community Member Meat-Head's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DemonMage View Post
    No, private instances don't function any differently than entering a quest now. You'll still be able to post a current-style LFM, but you won't show up in the new panel without explicitly stating you want to.
    Ok.. poor wording I suppose. Re-reading MFs OP, implies I can do what I think. It says that LFMs will have an "indication that it's public" if that applies. This implies there can be "non-public" LFMs advertised. Assuming this is the case, I'm all for this. I think it will do more good than harm.
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  20. #20
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    Does this mean that the flagging for Delera's and other chains that get messed up with sharing, or resetting quests before the end will finally be fixed to work more like Sentinels or Sharn? It is frustrating enough to guide people through the right steps to progress to the next part of Delera's. I can only imagine the nerdrage that will ensue if this system were to reset something like Threnal or Co6 on people, forcing them to reflag, repeat quests in the chain, or lose out on the end rewards.

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