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  1. #41
    Community Member amethystdragon's Avatar
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    Thank you for taking the time to discuss this with us, and to explain in more detail how you envision this to work. You have already answered and address most of the questions / concerns that I had. There are still a few things that I would like to have clarified.

    1. How will this work with F2P and packs that they may not own? Will they even be able to see it? What happens if they try to join something that they do not have access to?

    2. Quest Chains. Will you be able to post for an entire chain, or just the quest you are currently on? What happens if someone wants to join you, that is not on the same part of the chain that you are on?
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  2. #42
    Community Member Four20's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyr View Post
    I also have no small amount of concern about this being a tool to enable pikers.

    Piker looks at LFM panel. Waits for under 10 minutes quest to get to 4-5 minutes and joins. Piker hears the predictable "almost done" and sits at beginning for free xp.

    Just saying there is some very obvious piker opportunities here. Heck, a player could concievably never even move their character beyond walking to the trainers to level up through this system...
    you are not a fan of this system at all are you? XD

    seems like you're just sitting there trying to come up with any slightest way this feature could go wrong. . .and even in this quote you're assuming something we dont know(whether or not it will respect our squelch list).

    dont get me wrong, i thank you for looking at it from multiple angles and trying to 'help' the devs see potential pitfalls in the system. . .just try not to assume stuff you dont know yet

  3. #43
    Community Member Cyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Four20 View Post
    seems like you're just sitting there trying to come up with any slightest way this feature could go wrong. . .and even in this quote you're assuming something we dont know(whether or not it will respect our squelch list).
    You are factually incorrect. No where in that quote did I make any comment about the squelch function.

    In fact, very few people would make squelch lists with this sort of behavior because they would be joining at the end of the quest where people want them to not move so they do not drive up alert or die.
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  4. #44
    The Hatchery BruceTheHoon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyr View Post
    I also have no small amount of concern about this being a tool to enable pikers.

    Piker looks at LFM panel. Waits for under 10 minutes quest to get to 4-5 minutes and joins. Piker hears the predictable "almost done" and sits at beginning for free xp.

    Just saying there is some very obvious piker opportunities here. Heck, a player could concievably never even move their character beyond walking to the trainers to level up through this system...
    That's what severe late entry penalties are for.

    I have mixed feeling about this feature, Much of what MadFloyd's said is open for interpretations. What I know I dislike is, that a player is instantly teleported to the quest. This will only spread cluelesness.
    It is also a huge advantage over the current system. It's been said, that there will be no advantages.

    Another question: What happens, if a player that's not been flagged joins an instant-pop-in group?

  5. #45
    Community Member esheep's Avatar
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    While you are implementing this, I have a few requests for the current LFM system:

    Actually just one request: make the creation of groups part of LFM nudge people into current XP efficient practices.

    This would entail making the LFM system remind the creator about powerleveling penalties if their level range is sufficiently wide. Also might be a good time to remind people about bravery bonus... don't forget to tell them that allowing level 13's into a level 10 quest is going to be a 25% penalty, etc...

    The reason being, a lot of your casual player base could benefit from a little help here where they probably aren't going to be sticklers for reading up on all the caveats of XP (incl bravery bonus, etc).

    Of course groups are listed for other things than XP and those should be supported as well (but they already do just fine).

  6. #46
    Community Member Cauthey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyr View Post
    Of particular concern to me is the LFM spam that is likely to result form this sort of thing which will directly effect the usefullness of the current LFM panel. A simple checkbox to hide public instances would be a good idea to combat this.
    This would be a smart, and practical feature to add to be coupled with the Auto-group Feature. Possibly make it a setting in the UI options, such that it will start by default to show public instances, but could be set to permanently hide public instances (until toggled back off again in the UI options).

    Having to click this every time you log in when you want to look at the LFM social panel might be a pain. But, no more painful than clicking to hide all of your friends that are offline.
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  7. #47
    Community Member Cyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BruceTheHoon View Post
    That's what severe late entry penalties are for.

    I have mixed feeling about this feature, Much of what MadFloyd's said is open for interpretations. What I know I dislike is, that a player is instantly teleported to the quest. This will only spread cluelesness.
    It is also a huge advantage over the current system. It's been said, that there will be no advantages.

    Another question: What happens, if a player that's not been flagged joins an instant-pop-in group?
    Only if the group is RP. Otherwise alot of quests are fairly fast completions where this will not come into play. I am assuming you can see the party members on the LFM screen when it is public like when it is private. That alone should tell potential pikers most of what they need to know along with the timer on the quest.

    Of course there is also the case of the not 'stealth' piker, but the invited pikers...

    Solo/short man group is almost finished with quest. They zerged it out. They turn on LFM with label 'free xp at end join now' or some such. People do that now in places where free loot matters and will be nice and wait for people. With the auto teleport in there would be no waiting required by these groups so it would make it alot more palatable for people to do.

    I know I will probably have more then a few 'free xp join now' public lfms up as I solo and short man because setting something up as a public and being able to turn it's availability on and off will make it easier for guildies as well as others to join up quickly and not cost me any xp/min. Of course I would put it up at the end of the dungeon and not the beginning, but tons of places where that would still be great xp for people who hop in for 30 seconds.
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  8. #48
    The Hatchery Galeria's Avatar
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    It would be nice if there was some sort of indication of how long the public instance had been active or some sort of trigger to show 50%-80% penalties will result if joining.

    I have to echo some of the other posters though... with so many things that could be improved, I don't know how this one made it to the top of the priority list. It doesn't seem very useful. That doesn't change the fact that the time/resources have already been invested, so here's hoping it's worth it!

    Thanks for the update, MadFloyd. Always good to hear from you.
    Last edited by Galeria; 04-10-2012 at 01:33 PM.
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  9. #49
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    Since the original LFM stays, I think this is very cool. I run with PUGs a lot but there are a lot of quests I'd like to do but don't know well enough to "lead" them which you seemed pressured to do when you put a LFM up.

    Will be nice to just gather 5 like minded "hey, lets try this quest" individuals. I'd also like to see a simple option of "First Time Only" or such. Meaning, First time evar on the "account" running this quest. I really miss the good ole days when you "experienced" a quest for the first time. Even when new content is out, I'm usually running it with someone who has already ran it and its "trap here", "jump there", "don't to that", "do this" and you are just going through the motions.

    In fact, it would be great if this mechanic would stay active all night, through quests and everything. So you could log in and say "it would be great if I could run x tonight sometime, in the meantime I'll play whatever is in the LFM currently." So maybe if it's a slow night, by the time you come out of a quest the auto-group has found a match or let you know one is filling up (ie just needs 1 or 2 more).

    Be nice if you could fill out a profile as well. Something like "I like to zerg: 4" "I don't give up on quests: 5" "Like to show new players the rope: 3" etc. Just some simple play style questions you could answer for better matches. This would make it way better than the current LFM at that point.
    Last edited by Jamz; 04-10-2012 at 01:38 PM.

  10. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by Galeria View Post
    It would be nice if there was some sort of indication of how long the public instance had been active or some sort of trigger to show 50%-80% penalties will result if joining.

    Thanks for the update, MadFloyd. Always good to hear from you.
    I second this post and look forward to the new system.
    I also am concerned about know about penalties for joining.

    In fact this is a good time to add XP info to our quest journals and LFMs. I'd like to see a column on the LFM panel listing how much XP you'd get for each quest, plus an indication of what the current XP penalty would be for joining. Even more useful would be something like a %complete indicator, and info on how long it would take to lower the penalty.
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  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadFloyd View Post
    When players choose to join a public instance via the LFM listing, no permission is required and, if they are already in a public area, they can teleport to the quest immediately.
    I can see people joining public lfm's just for the free teleport, then stepping out and dropping group.
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  12. #52
    Community Member darksol23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadFloyd View Post
    When entering an instance (dungeon or wilderness) you'll be able to choose whether you want to create a private instance (no change from how it works now) or a public one.

    If you opt for public, you'll have control over whether you start your own/new instance (useful for when you want to lead or already have a partial party) or join an existing one (assuming one exists - otherwise you'll start a new one).
    Will this new interface show you whether a late entry penalty will apply or not if you choose to join the existing public instance?
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  13. #53
    Community Member Cyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darksol23 View Post
    Will this new interface show you whether a late entry penalty will apply or not?
    It will have time elapsed displayed according to the post by Madfloyd so you should be able to figure that one out yes.

    Relevant information...

    Late entry:
    • (individual) If you first entered the dungeon ten or more minutes after it spawned, you'll have a -80% penalty if the time between your entry and completion is less than a quarter of the dungeon's lifetime at that moment. If it's at least a quarter but less than half, you'll have a -50% penalty instead. (Explained by dev Phax here)
    Last edited by Cyr; 04-10-2012 at 01:46 PM.
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  14. #54
    Community Member Comegetsome's Avatar
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    Though you guys were adding a automated LFM would love to see a cross-server LFM panel

  15. #55
    Community Member Cyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Backley View Post
    I can see people joining public lfm's just for the free teleport, then stepping out and dropping group.
    Public service Forgotten Caverns adjacent to House K, Red Fens, and crafting hall.

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    We have someone who holds open the weapon vendor 24/7 on Sarlona so this might actually happen.
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  16. #56
    Community Member Sillk's Avatar
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    Default Default Levels?

    Will the default levels be 3 levels between the highest and lowest?

    I still can't understand why the current LFM system uses 4 levels (ex. a typical LFM can default to characters level 10 - 14... so whenever a 14 joins the LFM, the 10 gets a power-leveling penalty)

    I see a lot of posts asking why this is needed. I think it's to solve for a bunch of individuals standing around looking for something to do, but nobody wanting to "lead" by creating an LFM. Now it'll be done automatically if you let it. I think it's a good idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyr View Post
    Relevant information...

    Late entry:
    • (individual) If you first entered the dungeon ten or more minutes after it spawned, you'll have a -80% penalty if the time between your entry and completion is less than a quarter of the dungeon's lifetime at that moment. If it's at least a quarter but less than half, you'll have a -50% penalty instead. (Explained by dev Phax here)
    I'd like to see this calculated automatically, so you can tell at a glance.
    Last edited by Sillk; 04-10-2012 at 02:00 PM.

  17. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyr View Post
    Public service Forgotten Caverns adjacent to House K, Red Fens, and crafting hall.

    Public service Von1 conviently adjacent to airship portal.

    We have someone who holds open the weapon vendor 24/7 on Sarlona so this might actually happen.
    If it works through explorer areas, free teleports to adq and chains of flame would be awesome.
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  18. #58
    Community Member Cyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sillk View Post
    I'd like to see this calculated automatically, so you can tell at a glance.
    What would you like to see calculated?

    It is only a calculation once you have joined the quest and you can see it by looking on the xp screen when inside (as in it is calculated there, but in a more opaque manner not indicating current elapsed time and time you have been in quest...a fully updated listing of that would be great to have on the xp screen though).
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  19. #59
    Community Member DemonMage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Backley View Post
    I can see people joining public lfm's just for the free teleport, then stepping out and dropping group.
    When they step out, they'll more than likely end up at the exact same point they were when they clicked accept on the teleport. So it won't really get you anywhere to do so.
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  20. #60
    Community Member Cyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DemonMage View Post
    When they step out, they'll more than likely end up at the exact same point they were when they clicked accept on the teleport. So it won't really get you anywhere to do so.
    That would elimate the time saving through public zone thing, but actually make public LFMs even more powerful tools because you could sit on your ship and return there for buffs after every quest without pesky multiple zone ins.
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