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  1. #101
    Community Member Cauthey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadFloyd View Post
    As for dungeon scaling, xp, respawns: none of this changes.
    I see nothing wrong with this, really. By joining a public group, you are resigning to "get what you get," and "not pitch a fit."

    Though - it might be helpful to include some language warning to this effect. For example:

    "If you have people join your public group quickly, you may want to slow down a bit - dungeon scaling may make your progress harder until your new group members arrive at your location to assist you."
    PLEASE FIX LAG. PLEASE FIX BUGS.

  2. #102
    Community Member Alrik_Fassbauer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by macubrae View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alrik_Fassbauer View Post
    Long-time players of course don't see this, like MadFloyd correctly stated, because long-time players just cannot imagine it anymore how it is to be a first-life level 1 Newbie.
    Level 1 isn't a newbie, it's a TR. Doesn't everyone have veteran status 7(or at least 4)?
    Is this irony ? I didn't when I started last October.

  3. #103
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    People, this is a newbie feature. Please stop speculating how it is supposed to be used for end-game raids or TRs zipping through. It is clearly an addition made for new players that want to run low-level content together, but do not want to be questioned about their characters or deal with the potential stigma of leading a group for quests they do not know.

    I suspect very few elite streak,epics or raid groups will use this. So it is a feature not made for us - most of the forum goers - and that is fine. I'm sure it will be useful for new players running content on easier difficulties.
    Various hedge-wizards and halfwits, please see MyDDO for all your squelching needs
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  4. #104
    Community Member dkyle's Avatar
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    Another thought regarding Late Penalties: maybe add a big glowing red circle around the zone-in point, when a public quest instance is created, and make the quest timer only start once someone leaves the circle (or attacks anything). That way, the opener can zone in, get the instance created, and wait a bit for someone to join, without potentially leading to a late penalty issue.

  5. #105
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    If you are a radiant servant and try to enter a public instance and there is more than one public instance for that quest do you get torn to shreds as they all fight over you?


    Quote Originally Posted by MajMalphunktion View Post
    *Handwraps. Yes we know. Here is my known issue for handwraps. Hand wraps in assorted flavors are borked.

  6. #106
    Community Member Cyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Whats stopping people from doing that, today?

    I ask this because the same thing that stops them from doing it today will stop them from doing it with some new snazzy LFM tool in place that has absolutely nothing to do with the ability to grief other players.
    Simple. You can only do it once. After that people know your toon and will not let them in again. Word spreads and everyone knows that lets say player 888 is a griefer basically and they all hit decline.
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  7. #107
    Community Member redspecter23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wax_on_wax_off View Post
    Please include a "maximum party size". There are many quests that are nicer with 2-4 players and it would be ideal if the LFM would be automatically taken down once that threshold is met.
    This seems like an auto inclusion and I hope it is. Since dungeon scaling is here to stay, it's a truth that some dungeons are far easier with less people. I personally think that's a flaw with the scaling tech, but it will effect this autogrouping addition as well. Please keep that in mind while working on the autogroup feature.
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  8. #108
    Founder & Hero Vordax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrkGrismer View Post
    If you are a radiant servant and try to enter a public instance and there is more than one public instance for that quest do you get torn to shreds as they all fight over you?
    Sort of, what happens is you go into split screen (or quad screen) mode and heal all groups.

    Vordax

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  9. #109
    Community Member Cauthey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrkGrismer View Post
    If you are a radiant servant and try to enter a public instance and there is more than one public instance for that quest do you get torn to shreds as they all fight over you?
    LOL!

    I imagine that the logic will put everyone going into the same quest PUBLIC will likely fill the first group PUBLIC before launching a second one. Based on what's been stated, all this really is is a mechanism to do the LFM grouping work for you - just managed from the quest/instance entry point instead.
    PLEASE FIX LAG. PLEASE FIX BUGS.

  10. #110
    Community Member Hendrik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrkGrismer View Post
    If you are a radiant servant and try to enter a public instance and there is more than one public instance for that quest do you get torn to shreds as they all fight over you?
    No, you go to the group with the most plat.

    Have to do something to cover the cost of healing them...

    Quote Originally Posted by hsinclair
    I heard the devs hate all wizards, bards, clerics, fighters, and fuzzy bunnies and only want us to play halfling barbarian/paladin shuriken specialists!

    It's totally true, I have a reliable source. You better reroll now.
    Adventurer, Bug Reporter, Mournlander.

  11. #111
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    much of what I have to say has been said in some form or another. but since you are asking for our feedback, here's mine.

    I don't see myself using this new system as a leader or joiner, except possibly for slayers (which I do some, but not a lot of). There are a few reasons for this which I will elaborate in a bit. First I'd like to point out some problems:

    Who is this targeted for? it seems like newer/casual players who don't want to lead or don't want to deal with lfm panel (as per one of madfloyd's comments). However, these are the same players that like to work as a team, stick together, get a healer, etc. I don't see a new player joining a public instance on his barb with 2 casters in the group knowing they'll have to fend for themselves without a healer. Similarly, they don't like to join IP groups, which 100% of public instances will be. Bottom line, I don't see the players this is targeted for utilizing this feature.

    I run some epics (almost exclusively in guild), raids when I am not TRing, or xp while TRing. so, without further ado:
    epics - as I said, almost exclusively in guild. auto-grouping doesn't factor into it
    raids - with the exception of chronoscope and TS, raids lock out late comers. auto-grouping doesn't factor.
    xp questing - I put up lfm, and go in. I put up byoh, ip, and with very few exceptions take the first 5 who hit the lfm. While this sounds like an ideal scenario for public grouping, I don't see myself switching over for one important reason that has been mentioned in this thread already. If I am in the middle of tough fight, I don't want someone to join and scale the dungeon at that very moment. This has happened to me when I was not careful on the current system, but at least I have some control. In the new system, it is guaranteed to happen.

    The other kind of questing is for loot or favor. those I suppose I might use the auto-grouping system, but frankly, I don't do much of that, so... yeah.

  12. #112
    Community Member Vazok1's Avatar
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    Also what is the standard party make-up that the game chooses?, if any, or is it truly first come first serve, because you might end up with a group of 6 melees who cant self heal or all healbots etc
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  13. #113
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    Just another thought...
    This seems like it could work in a game where at any given moment, each dungeon can have 3-4 instances, and the system makes it easy for you if you don't care which you join. However, I don't think that's the case with ddo based on what I've seen.

  14. #114
    Community Member Alrik_Fassbauer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Razcar View Post
    People, this is a newbie feature. Please stop speculating how it is supposed to be used for end-game raids or TRs zipping through. It is clearly an addition made for new players that want to run low-level content together, but do not want to be questioned about their characters or deal with the potential stigma of leading a group for quests they do not know.

    I suspect very few elite streak,epics or raid groups will use this. So it is a feature not made for us - most of the forum goers - and that is fine. I'm sure it will be useful for new players running content on easier difficulties.
    Yes. I thought that MadFlyd had already made this clear.

    But still that bickering of the "vocal majority" goes on, it's as if everyone here would fear that THEIR style/way of playing would become ruined forevar !!!

    Ahem. I do become a bit cynical when I'm beginning to rant over things myself.

    I still don't get it why people are so much confused about their end-game style of playing which won't change anyway.

    And what stings me is that most people here bickering around haven't read or at least not kept in mind from the notes above that part of this LFM structure will remain as normal.

    It's as if people were consciously searching for something to bicker around.

    You don't want to know what's new, don't you ?

    Bold printing and multiple exclamation marks in this quote by me :

    Quote Originally Posted by MadFloyd View Post
    When entering an instance (dungeon or wilderness) you'll be able to choose whether you want to create a private instance (no change from how it works now) or !!! a public one.

    If you opt for public, you'll have control over whether you start your own/new instance (useful for when you want to lead or already have a partial party) or !!! join an existing one (assuming one exists - otherwise you'll start a new one).

    When a new public instance is created, a LFM entry will be posted in the Grouping panel (with an indication that this is a 'public' instance and the time elapsed). Other players can join by using the LFM or by walking up to and entering the instance (and choosing the 'join' option).

    When players choose to join a public instance via the LFM listing, no permission is required and, if they are already in a public area, they can teleport to the quest immediately.


    By the way,m what I still don't understand is this : Why do quests have to have leaders at all ?

  15. #115
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alrik_Fassbauer View Post

    Long-time players of course don't see this, like MadFloyd correctly stated, because long-time players just cannot imagine it anymore how it is to be a first-life level 1 Newbie.

    And, being a First-Life Level 1 Newbie and trying to negociate questing (read : participating) with a group of let's say 7 Level 1 TR's isn't fun, either.
    But you don't know that.
    They are going to find out real quick that they cant code their game to stop people from being dbags. People will act like clowns regardless, and this new LFM system wont change that. Instead of booting newbies when they ask for a share when the quest giver is right out side the quest, the newbies LFM will "convince" the same clowns to join from time to time and they will DA grief the newbie or bounce and re-enter at will.

    The best tool to stop people from being dbags is not the coding of the game or the LFM system, its the people themselves. When people play with like minded, same metagaming experience level people, those issues dont crop up. Setting the expectation that newbies will now find themselves in groups with vets and everything will just be laa-dee-daa because of some new LFM system is creating an environment for hilarity to ensue.

    Even if you are correct and all experienced players just cant possibly remember what its like to be a new player in a game, the new LFM system doesnt impact the result of people of different experience levels not wanting to group together in the slightest.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  16. #116
    Community Member Cyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alrik_Fassbauer View Post
    You completely missed the point. The point hin his remark was NOT LFM notes or "end game content".

    The point was about negotiation and having to lead if one doesn't want to lead.

    And that's simple to answer : Sociophobia. For example.

    And you don't want to be the leader of a group if you haven't learned how to lead, too.

    Because there's LOTs and LOTS and LOTS of people screaming at you if you have FAILED to properly lead a quest !

    Long-time players of course don't see this, like MadFloyd correctly stated, because long-time players just cannot imagine it anymore how it is to be a first-life level 1 Newbie.

    And, being a First-Life Level 1 Newbie and trying to negociate questing (read : participating) with a group of let's say 7 Level 1 TR's isn't fun, either.
    But you don't know that.
    I don't get it really...

    What is the negotating part of this?

    There is almost no back and forth with the current LFM system except simple notes saying 'don't do this or do this' and at end game there are a little bit of stuff like 'link x or send tell confirming you can read'.

    This system looks even worse if you view it a new player solution not better.

    New players do not greatly benefit from being grouped together with a bunch of other people who are equally clueless as them or who are the types who do not like to be told to bring heal potions or heal on their pure cleric.

    Most new players I have played with over the many years I have played have loved being in parties with people who have half a clue and are able to lend a helping hand. The great clueless morass is not what most new players want to be thrown into.

    You don't solve new players having a hard time by making them have a harder time...
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  17. #117
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyr View Post
    Simple. You can only do it once. After that people know your toon and will not let them in again. Word spreads and everyone knows that lets say player 888 is a griefer basically and they all hit decline.
    Right but that happens regardless of the system used to group people together, as I clearly pointed out.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  18. #118
    Community Member Sutekx's Avatar
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    Sounds like a lazy button for new people instead of what we currently have now, but I could see some issues with it as an example the oops factor of someone setting The Weapons Shipment on public instead of private and coming up to the end with the planescaller and going up against the waves of enemies.

    I currently don't see a problem with the social panel at this time for setting up groups, the option of not being leader of a group you setup sounds like it could be a problem - as an example: everyone starts to wait in front of the quest and someone assumes the leader position and starts to kick everyone out of party. How about a better tutorial for new people on how to use the social panel instead?

  19. #119
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Razcar View Post
    People, this is a newbie feature. Please stop speculating how it is supposed to be used for end-game raids or TRs zipping through. It is clearly an addition made for new players that want to run low-level content together, but do not want to be questioned about their characters or deal with the potential stigma of leading a group for quests they do not know.

    I suspect very few elite streak,epics or raid groups will use this. So it is a feature not made for us - most of the forum goers - and that is fine. I'm sure it will be useful for new players running content on easier difficulties.
    So no ones going to use it to get teleported right to quests instead of having to run to them?

    Sounds more like a convenience feature to me, that can and will be used by everyone regardless of style of play, years of experience, etc.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alrik_Fassbauer View Post
    By the way,m what I still don't understand is this : Why do quests have to have leaders at all ?
    Every quest has a leader, it's the guy in front, until he dies anyway.

    Then the next guy is the leader.

    Unless, of course, they are organized. In which case maybe they will use the existing system anyways.

    Most of the time when I play with my 'less experienced' friends I ask them "Do you want me to follow you or do you want to just try to keep up?" I think that question is important when playing with somebody that maybe hasn't done the quest before.


    Quote Originally Posted by MajMalphunktion View Post
    *Handwraps. Yes we know. Here is my known issue for handwraps. Hand wraps in assorted flavors are borked.

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