Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 38
  1. #1

    Default Gianthold Tor: dragon room wipes the Core!

    What a major disappointment! We were all geared up for a big fight that never came. Mowhirlio entered the room with 360 hit points, a 30 reflex save, and Improved Evasion. He was dead in under a minute. The rest of the party died in half that, some of them having 40 points worth of resists, protection from elements, and about 300 hit points. The ability to heal or repair themselves mattered not one bit!

    Say what you will, but I think it's a design flaw when the environmental effects of a room do more damage than the big bad boss you are fighting (or about to fight). Most people didn't get one swing at the dragon. Quite a disappointment in a game of Dungeons & Dragons. But I won't complain excessively. It seems it wasn't meant for us, even though some of us were a little bit familiar with the room.

    No spoiling if you know what I'm talking about. Just wanted to record the fact here that we completed the actual quest on hard with zero problems and then wiped in mere seconds (one of us managed to survive) in one of the dragon rooms.

    /whimper

    See you in Faerun!
    Last edited by Duncani_Daho; 04-10-2012 at 07:35 AM. Reason: spelling and to mention the hard difficulty
    The Core HC Permadeath Guild
    HC stands for Hard Core
    on Khyber
    thecorehc.home.comcast.net

  2. #2
    The Hatchery sirgog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    17,195

    Default

    Elite black dragon is arguably the second hardest fight in the whole game (I assume that's what wiped you), with only part 1 of elite Tower of Despair being tougher.

    There's dozens of people that can beat epic LOB that could not contribute at all to either of those fights.
    I don't have a zerging problem.

    I'm zerging. That's YOUR problem.

  3. #3
    The Hatchery Nospheratus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Limbo
    Posts
    1,123

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sirgog View Post
    Elite black dragon is arguably the second hardest fight in the whole game (I assume that's what wiped you), with only part 1 of elite Tower of Despair being tougher.

    There's dozens of people that can beat epic LOB that could not contribute at all to either of those fights.
    I disagree. IMO the blue one is tougher because said environmental effects are unavoidable...
    R.I.P. Devourer - 20-Aug-2010 11:00 GMT(+1 DST)
    (World Broadcast): World broadcast: 'Farewell to all our loyal players and thank you for your time in Eberron. We wish you all the best for your future adventures. Please log out now as the servers are now going down. Many thanks, Codemasters Online.'

  4. #4
    Community Member parvo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Pigmy Drow Paradise
    Posts
    4,502

    Default

    HI Mo. I have zero knowledge of that area and I hope folks can keep from spoiling, but I'm curious what difficulty setting you tried?
    M O R T A L V O Y A G E
    Permadeath Guild
    Stay Hard

  5. #5
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    1,125

    Default

    There are couple of quests that I think would be near impossible on Hard/Elite for PD, if you're going into the quest without spoiling, no ship buffs and undergeared (average to poor gear, no farmed).

    Gianthold Tor is one, the other that comes to mind would be Crucible.

  6. #6
    Community Member Sarisa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    3,614

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nospheratus View Post
    I disagree. IMO the blue one is tougher because said environmental effects are unavoidable...
    Spoilers below, highlight to view:


    Blue is unavoidable, but you can gather together and heal through it. Blue's environmental damage also starts off weak, and gets stronger as you stay in the room, so it only gets up to Black's level of danger after a full minute or so in the room.

    Blacks traps were GREATLY enlarged in u9, and they cover a much larger area than their animations suggest. You also can't keep together as easily here, because the Giant heals the Dragon, and because of the very commonly cast Telekinesis. The TK also is likely to throw you into one of the trapped areas.

  7. #7
    Community Member Monkey-Boy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    2,151

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sirgog View Post
    Elite black dragon is arguably the second hardest fight in the whole game (I assume that's what wiped you), with only part 1 of elite Tower of Despair being tougher.

    There's dozens of people that can beat epic LOB that could not contribute at all to either of those fights.
    I wouldn't say that about the current Elite TOD part 1 . . . but U11 Elite TOD absolutely. Anyone I know who completed that concurs that it was harder than Epic LOB once you are familiar with both.

    Haven't done Elite TOR dragons recently, but in general the traps and environmental effects in this game on elite get a little bit stupid.

  8. #8
    The Hatchery Nospheratus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Limbo
    Posts
    1,123

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarisa View Post
    <snip>
    Oh I see now. I guess it has been a while since I have done it on elite...

    TBH I don't think that detail is WAI.
    R.I.P. Devourer - 20-Aug-2010 11:00 GMT(+1 DST)
    (World Broadcast): World broadcast: 'Farewell to all our loyal players and thank you for your time in Eberron. We wish you all the best for your future adventures. Please log out now as the servers are now going down. Many thanks, Codemasters Online.'

  9. #9
    Community Member Gandalfs_Ghost's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    450

    Default

    They were on hard I believe.

    And yeah there's a few places n the game where I have found myself wondering "is this really working as intended?"
    Von 3 end room comes to mind, dont even like running it on elite any more because of that ending. Beholders shmeholders, that end room just blows. Literally.

  10. #10
    Community Member Sarisa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    3,614

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gandalfs_Ghost View Post
    They were on hard I believe.

    And yeah there's a few places n the game where I have found myself wondering "is this really working as intended?"
    Von 3 end room comes to mind, dont even like running it on elite any more because of that ending. Beholders shmeholders, that end room just blows. Literally.
    Again, highlight for spoilers:

    In addition to the seriously nasty VoN3 room (especially if going spoiler free) and Tor Elite Black Dragon, the flame blast in ADQ1, the Bat hallway in ADQ1, and Ice in Stealer of Souls (Air Jets and traps that extend past their animations...). Those don't always appear to be working as intended. The rune wheels in Elite Under the Big Top are also on the "ridiculous" side, able to dish out 200-300 points of damage in a level 7 quest, at high DC's. Partycrashers illusionary spikes are also ridiculous, being non-evadable will save based traps, that have DC's on elite and epic that are so high that even a maxed out Cleric, Monk, or Pali can't reliably save on them.

    Many were a result of u9's trap "boost". In all cases, the environment is way more of a threat than anything the mobs and bosses can do.

    Rightfully tough ones would be Elite Sor'jek in SoS (provided you survive Ice), Elite Bastion, Elite New Invasion (Chains and an Air Ele with 400+ point force traps, anti-healing curses, and enough lag that potions won't always work), Elite Demon's Den, Elite Acute Delirium, Elite In the Flesh (for some), and Tor Blue and White.

    These are due to the boss and its adds primarily. Only New Invasion's and Tor's difficulty are partially due to the environment.

  11. #11
    Community Member Jaid314's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    5,416

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarisa View Post
    Again, highlight for spoilers:

    In addition to the seriously nasty VoN3 room (especially if going spoiler free) and Tor Elite Black Dragon, the flame blast in ADQ1, the Bat hallway in ADQ1, and Ice in Stealer of Souls (Air Jets and traps that extend past their animations...). Those don't always appear to be working as intended. The rune wheels in Elite Under the Big Top are also on the "ridiculous" side, able to dish out 200-300 points of damage in a level 7 quest, at high DC's. Partycrashers illusionary spikes are also ridiculous, being non-evadable will save based traps, that have DC's on elite and epic that are so high that even a maxed out Cleric, Monk, or Pali can't reliably save on them.

    Many were a result of u9's trap "boost". In all cases, the environment is way more of a threat than anything the mobs and bosses can do.

    Rightfully tough ones would be Elite Sor'jek in SoS (provided you survive Ice), Elite Bastion, Elite New Invasion (Chains and an Air Ele with 400+ point force traps, anti-healing curses, and enough lag that potions won't always work), Elite Demon's Den, Elite Acute Delirium, Elite In the Flesh (for some), and Tor Blue and White.

    These are due to the boss and its adds primarily. Only New Invasion's and Tor's difficulty are partially due to the environment.
    you forgot the room at the end of stolen property, from the sharn syndicate. the damage from those traps are ridiculous. yes, you can disarm the traps, but there's still no way they should be *that* crazy in the first place).

  12. #12
    Community Member Sarisa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    3,614

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaid314 View Post
    you forgot <snip>
    Ah ya, those: When that goes off (if you don't disarm, or you don't have the stat/skill requirements to determine the right one... The u9 trap change makes the blast extend outside the room now.

  13. #13
    Community Member Aeolwind's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    On the outside, looking in
    Posts
    902

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Duncani_Daho View Post
    What a major disappointment! We were all geared up for a big fight that never came. Mowhirlio entered the room with 360 hit points, a 30 reflex save, and Improved Evasion. He was dead in under a minute. The rest of the party died in half that, some of them having 40 points worth of resists, protection from elements, and about 300 hit points. The ability to heal or repair themselves mattered not one bit!

    Say what you will, but I think it's a design flaw when the environmental effects of a room do more damage than the big bad boss you are fighting (or about to fight). Most people didn't get one swing at the dragon. Quite a disappointment in a game of Dungeons & Dragons. But I won't complain excessively. It seems it wasn't meant for us, even though some of us were a little bit familiar with the room.

    No spoiling if you know what I'm talking about. Just wanted to record the fact here that we completed the actual quest on hard with zero problems and then wiped in mere seconds (one of us managed to survive) in one of the dragon rooms.

    /whimper

    See you in Faerun!
    Don't feel bad, we jumped in on Elite on white, shortmanned, in our TR group with all the fuzzy twink loot and were summarily slaughtered. Tor dragons are silly difficult on elite now. The fights were 'boosted' around the same time that Reaver was changed. You should mulligan that death.
    Aeolwind (5/12) - 18 Sorc/1 Art | Melisandria - 20 Fighter SD | Anlona - 20 cleric RS

  14. #14
    Community Member Aeolwind's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    On the outside, looking in
    Posts
    902

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sirgog View Post
    Elite black dragon is arguably the second hardest fight in the whole game (I assume that's what wiped you), with only part 1 of elite Tower of Despair being tougher.

    There's dozens of people that can beat epic LOB that could not contribute at all to either of those fights.
    We tried black first on elite, we hit the portal over, trap fired, 3 crystals before we even finished loading lol.
    Aeolwind (5/12) - 18 Sorc/1 Art | Melisandria - 20 Fighter SD | Anlona - 20 cleric RS

  15. #15
    Community Member count_spicoli's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    1,003

    Default

    Why were you trying such a silly thing in permadeath? Shouldn't you just be running norm which isn't any picnic as well

  16. #16
    Community Member Postumus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    SW Wheloon
    Posts
    6,983

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Duncani_Daho View Post

    Say what you will, but I think it's a design flaw when the environmental effects of a room do more damage than the big bad boss you are fighting (or about to fight). Most people didn't get one swing at the dragon. Quite a disappointment in a game of Dungeons & Dragons. But I won't complain excessively. It seems it wasn't meant for us, even though some of us were a little bit familiar with the room.

    /whimper

    See you in Faerun!
    Wow, that's a shame.

    What color was the dragon? What level was your group overall? How many in the group and what classes were present? How long did the fight last? Sounds like it was over in seconds. Did you learn anything from this encounter that you would do differently next time (or do you play new characters without prior knowledge?)

    Encounters like these, especially high level ones, make me ask how permadeath generally views retreat tactics like DDoor, teleport, greater teleport, or word of recall when an encounter is going badly. I assume DDoor or Greater Teleport would be acceptable, but what about the arcane or cleric cutting and running if it looks like everyone will wipe or has wiped? Is that frowned upon, or are players relieved at least someone survived to tell the tale?

  17. #17
    Community Member Gandalfs_Ghost's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    450

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Postumus View Post
    I assume DDoor or Greater Teleport would be acceptable, but what about the arcane or cleric cutting and running if it looks like everyone will wipe or has wiped? Is that frowned upon, or are players relieved at least someone survived to tell the tale?
    Not to speak for everyone pd but escape options are generally considered a good idea, and yes people bailing on an imminent wipe is acceptable. Sometimes its the only thing you can do. And sometimes by the time you realize this its too late

  18. #18

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by parvo View Post
    HI Mo. I have zero knowledge of that area and I hope folks can keep from spoiling, but I'm curious what difficulty setting you tried?
    It was on hard. I tried to be as general as possible in my complaint without giving spoilers as to what location, what kind of damage, and what we saw when we entered. I hope others have more luck than we did. But I know a new-comer couldn't gain any information from my description that would help them survive longer than our 1 minute. I don't know, maybe we were a bit unlucky and would be more savvy next time.

    In all likelihood though there won't be a next time, at least for that particular room. It takes too long getting a character to 16 only to watch her squirm for a few seconds before death. It was not a hero's end.

    Some of the characters were two years old or more. One of the younger ones was a favored soul/monk with vampiric stonedust handwraps. If you know what those are you know they aren't likely to be replaced in an age.

    But the losses didn't sidetrack the guild's push for some new firsts: house Cannith, reavers refuge, and Amroth are all around the corner.
    The Core HC Permadeath Guild
    HC stands for Hard Core
    on Khyber
    thecorehc.home.comcast.net

  19. #19

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gandalfs_Ghost View Post
    Not to speak for everyone pd but escape options are generally considered a good idea, and yes people bailing on an imminent wipe is acceptable. Sometimes its the only thing you can do. And sometimes by the time you realize this its too late
    Our arcane in the party is probably the biggest, most careful coward in PD play. And he would consider that a compliment. He was play a max con warforged wizard with 400 hp. His reconstruct might hit for 350, I don't know. But even HE died. With people dying all around he hit d-door and was moving toward it when he died.
    The Core HC Permadeath Guild
    HC stands for Hard Core
    on Khyber
    thecorehc.home.comcast.net

  20. #20

    Default

    Here are a couple of answers to questions or points in previous posts.

    We couldn't run it on normal because we were all level 16. Per Core rules we don't run base level 14 quests on normal unless everyone in the party is underlevel.

    And yes, teleport, word of recall, and dimension door are all acceptable forms of escape when doo-doo hits the proverbial fan. Yesterday we faced a potential wipe in InThe Flesh on hard when we were running without a healer and lost a man due to having his brain devoured. Until he read his combat log aloud, we had all assumed his -10 had come from a death effect. Correction: no brain! Who coulda knew

    We escaped through d-door and replaced his brainy parts with puddy. He is a survivor, sure, but the poor slob has to be led around by his iron defender. Even warforged have brains. Who woulda knew!

    But the all-time best save through a d-door came when we were fighting the Demon in the Deeps at the end of Into the Deep. Our beefiest brawlers went down and a wipe loomed. But all of the sudden a d-door appeared and Dreadsun, a human favored soul, scooped up the two soulstones and hopped through the door. Both fallen were raised and lived to fight another day.

    Dreadsun died in Gianthold Tor.
    The Core HC Permadeath Guild
    HC stands for Hard Core
    on Khyber
    thecorehc.home.comcast.net

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload